USA Supreme Court Bans Abortion .. Your Thoughts ?

[Angeló]

I'm moving to the USA soon to marry my fiancee ... we are not planning on having kids ... but the Supreme Court decision might alter our whole life ... as it will affect millions of other American lives ... What do you think about it ??

[Duskitty]

As a non-American I'm quite frankly shocked that less than a dozen people are allowed to make decisions like these, decisions that will affect the lives of millions of people.
This is a decision that will result in pregnant people not receiving proper health care, children resented by parents who didn't want them, pregnant people dying in childbirth because of health complications, people forced to seek out unsafe methods of abortion, birth control becoming increasingly difficult if not outright impossible to acquire, impoverished families being unable to properly care for their children, etc. etc.

This also sets a major precedent for American citizens' rights. If something like the right to abortion can be so easily overturned, what about other rights, such as gay marriage? Interracial marriage?

The right to abortion should be a universal human right, and it's outrageous that the Supreme Court can decide to violate the rights of millions of Americans like this.

[grobanite3388]

Agreeing wholeheartedly with Duskitty. It's completely insane, what's happening over there. Aside from all the things she listed, this also completely ironically impacts fertility treatments, people who are desperately trying to conceive. The idea that 9 people get to make a decision like this is completely mind-boggling.

[bonnie_morrison]

I'm from Canada, and agree with Duskitty as well, nobody but the woman herself should have a say in her body and what to do with it. And now one of the Supreme justices is saying that they (the SCOTUS) should look at other rulings as well like access to birth control? what is this the 1950's? I agree with the senator I was reading about in the news yesterday that said that some of the justices claimed to have said they weren't going to touch Roe vs Wade, and then did, that they lied under oath and should be impeached. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by bonnie_morrison

[Musical_Shoyru]

I'm going to be the odd one out here as I am absolutely relieved this has happened, as an avid pro-life supporter this is something that those of us who have been fighting for 50 years are just amazed to see. I know there is a lot of people that are upset about it and I don't mean my support in any hate, but abortion is murder and it's something I'm glad is finally being taken seriously as such, thinking about all those poor children that never got a chance to decide if they wanted to live or die just makes me sad.

I don't really intend to debate with anyone so won't be responding to debating messages, but I figured I'd give my thoughts on the matter in a non-venomous way as there are always two sides to every story.

[jaydeed]

I am a British Canadian and have always lived where abortions are free, simple and safe. This decision appalls me. I am a mother of two and had miscarriages between my two healthy babies. Devastating. I doubt many women choose an abortion for the fun of it. If a baby comes about accidentally or through darker causes, in those early stages it is not a person, not a cute baby; it's a clump of cells, non-sentient, able to feel no pain. A woman should not be made to put her life at risk (the stats on deaths during pregnancy/birth in the US are frankly shameful) and go through the physical, emotional and financial trauma of an unwanted pregnancy and birth.

 

And the current SC has people on it who got there through cheating on the part of a self-serving POTUS and corrupt Republican Party. They should not have this power.

 

Dark day for the US. The rise in intolerance is deeply worrying.  I hope it shocks people into voting them out.

[queen_hatshepset]

I can't believe it happened. But a safe option would be to have your finance get a vasectomy it is reversal able and more manageable for him to have it done. My husband got it done and he recovered in days and it is completely safe. But just a suggestion! 

[Aquamentis12]

8 hours ago, Musical_Shoyru said:

I'm going to be the odd one out here as I am absolutely relieved this has happened, as an avid pro-life supporter this is something that those of us who have been fighting for 50 years are just amazed to see. I know there is a lot of people that are upset about it and I don't mean my support in any hate, but abortion is murder and it's something I'm glad is finally being taken seriously as such, thinking about all those poor children that never got a chance to decide if they wanted to live or die just makes me sad.

I don't really intend to debate with anyone so won't be responding to debating messages, but I figured I'd give my thoughts on the matter in a non-venomous way as there are always two sides to every story.

@Musical_Shoyru, good to read your post! Very rational!

I don't usually wade (no pun intended) into these mires, and like Musical_Shoyru, I have NO desire to debate my views. (Already done that plenty over the previous months elsewhere). So, I will simply state and explain them, and put anything I feel might be "sensitive" behind spoiler tags. I wish I could be as concise and less passionate as she was with her post. Unfortunately, I believe so strongly in speaking out for the weak and innocent that I can go long at the keyboard and my passion can become fiery. So, please bear with me. I'm not trying to offend anyone here. ^^; Just wanting to get my thoughts out.

First off Angelo, congrats! I hope that you and your fiance have a fine and long life together! But the thing is Angelo, when Roe won out over Wade in 1973, Abortion was supposed to be 3 things. 1) Safe 2) Legal 3) Rare. It's been 49 years, and over 74,000,000 abortions have happened in the USA since then. I would HARDLY call that "Rare". Also, the abortion facilities don't need hospital level sanitation in the rooms where the abortions are actually done, so nix "Safe" too. Texas TRIED to impose that in their state, but that was overturned for whatever unfathomable reason. Having strict sanitary conditions in a room where an internal procedure like that is done, should be sanitary imho. I was SHOCKED to learn they weren't required to do that!

So, a little history first. The biggest abortion organization in the US, Planned Parenthood, the founder, one Margaret Sanger, was an avowed racist who said that 'if they can't obliterate the non-whites, then they should keep their numbers in check'. Her answer, Planned Parenthood and Abortion. She even spoke at KKK rallies! This is why so many of the early Planned Parenthood "clinics" were in urban and metro areas, where there were lots of non-whites who were poor and had too many people in their families and not enough money to afford bigger homes in better neighborhoods. Granted, segregation was also going on when Margaret Sanger was still around.

I didn't even know what Planned Parenthood DID until the mid-90s, when one of the LAST protests (with graphic signs) against abortion marched by where I grew up as a kid. I say "last", because shortly there-after pro-life protestors were BANNED from carrying signs that show what these protestor-signs showed. Unborn babies before birth, as well as photos of aborted babies. Talk about stomach turning. (The latter, not the former). Back then, partial-birth abortion was still legal. A barbaric practice in which the womb was injected with

saline, burning the poor thing to death, usually, then it's head was allowed out just enough to pierce it's skull with a vacuum tube edged with razer sharp spike-things to get in there, suck the brain out, and then the body was removed from the woman's body and who knows what after that. Some abortion docs, (like Kermit Gosnel for example) liked to keep "trophies" of the slain babies. Fair-to-say, he was not the norm, I don't believe.

Another argument FOR Planned Parenthood has been that they PROVIDE mammograms, a lie. In or around 2014, the president of Planned Parenthood testified before the Senate and was asked about that. She said that to the best of her knowledge, not a single PP facility in the USA PROVIDES mammograms, they do refer women to clinics where they can get them, but they do not provide them themselves.

I firmly believe a woman has the right to decide what goes INTO her body. But, after she becomes host to a growing child, I believe that child has the right to life. After all, the US Constitution DOES say "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Every pro-life person I've spoken too, and even a few who are pro-choice. Mainly women, have agreed with that idea. Guys, should REALLY be prepared. I mean, "protection". Preferably both should be using it. Or, as Queen Hatshepset offered, a vasectomy is another possibility. They can be undone if you ever decide you want kids. It would be a LOT easier an safer for you to have that done, than for your fiance having her "tubes tied".

Not personally a fan of shots and stuff, but for someone I loved? I could probably be talked into it.

Guys, if you're with a lady, and you don't have "protection", and she is uncomfortable in going further because of that, or for ANY reason for that matter, BACK OFF! Accept how she feels and just back off! Trying to convince her otherwise is not respecting her perspective and fears at that moment in time!

There's an old saying, some might consider it harsh, but there are MANY variations of sayings with the same meaning. "You've made your bed, now lay in it." Basically meaning of course, that your actions have brought up consequences and you need to face them. Just like "If you do the crime, you do the time."

Everything action has consequences, whether good or bad to that person's perspective. Abortion, imho, is a way of shirking that responsibility, by trying to delude people into thinking that until a baby takes it's first breath, it's not really alive. Unscientific hogwash. Of course it's alive! It can react to external stimuli, it can feel pain, it has a detectable heartbeat before the first tri-mester is even up. Oh yeah, even if it's not fully formed yet, it IS clearly alive.

Even the plaintiff (Roe) in Roe vs Wade, has for about 20 years now, regretted her winning that landmark battle! She has been to and spoken at so many of the March for Life marches over the years! She said she brought suit to argue for abortion because medical technology was not good enough to save every mother who had a complicated pregnancy. When I heard her speak on TV, she would say that things had changed since the 70s, and that now the vast majority of cases with complicated pregnancies that BOTH mother-to-be AND child could be saved! And that was about 15 years ago I heard her say that!

Also, this ruling does NOT completely ban abortions across the nation. It means that the States get to decide based on their people's votes. In other words, Democracy! People vote who people who will carry out their views. Pro-Life, pro-choice, or somewhere in-between. Anyone truly concerned about getting an abortion, can also "vote with their feet" as the saying goes. Move to a state that has abortion "clinics" for whatever level of reasoning suits your conscience.

I believe Colorado just passed a law allowing it up to and during LABOR that the woman can decide to abort the pregnancy. Basically, infanticide since the baby's gotta come out NO MATTER WHAT. Whether it's alive or dead. That makes no sense to me, especially on a humanitarian level.

Meanwhile, in Arizona, the passed some limitations on Abortions, save for a few circumstances. As the state-house was being invaded by an angry mob of pro-choicers. They needed smoke bombs to clear them out and protect the state legislature!

Mobs of pro-choicers have been rioting (similarly to the Summer of 2020), over this decision destroying property, hurting people, even those who might AGREE with them about Roe.

During all the years that The March For Life was going on, for almost 50 years too, I've NEVER heard of any of those pro-lifers doing anything violent, torching buildings, hurting people, etc. during their rallies.

With the way these pro-choicers (not all, just the rioting mobs and those egging them on) are acting, you'd think they were part of some sort of Death-cult or something. Using violence and intimidation tactics instead of trying to speak their perspectives clearly and rationally. And certainly not trying to understand the other side's perspective either.

I've done a LOT of pondering on this since I was as teenager. I DON'T HATE people who've had abortions. That had to be an incredibly HARD decision to make. I DO know people who HAVE HAD abortions. The pain, the tears, the sadness when they talk about it.... Is beyond palpable. That's why I get so passionate about this. Short-term, it may seem like a solution, but long-term, it stains your heart with guilt and good people shouldn't suffer, even if they do sometimes make horrible mistakes as MANY people do, have and will.

Oh yeah, and that line some politicians are saying about "the courts are coming for your birth control/contraceptives next!", that line? Utter BULLPLOP! Not at all true! This isn't a theocracy after all.

So there we go. Some history, some of my thoughts and how I arrived at them. Etc.

I know I got a bit impassioned here. But when it comes to protecting innocent life? Yeah, I'm gonna stand up for this. There are no lives more innocent and defenseless than these! And they SHOULD be protected if at all possible, imho.

Sorry this got long, all. I've seen so much and I held back on a LOT because I knew this would get long, just not quite THIS long. All life should be considered precious. Especially those innocent of any wrong-doing, as babies are.

Later! Happy debating.

[Aimee]

@Aquamentis12 I'm so disappointed in you.

 

@AngelóI'm so sorry you have to move to the US to be with your fiancee, honestly it would be a lot better for both of you if you weren't living here right now. A lot of already-existing problems with our country are getting worse and worse right now, and I wouldn't recommend anyone to move here. ><; 

The news about Roe VS Wade being overturned is incredibly disheartening for many reasons, one of which is the fact that the decision was made by only a handful of people, all of whom have perjured themselves by overturning Roe VS Wade. They had sworn at their confirmation hearings that they wouldn't and... well... did. They lied under oath. 

Not only that, but all of the things Aquamentis said in his reply are completely false, and recycled talking points from the last twenty years. Trust me, I heard them plenty growing up in an anti-choice household and until I got older and started hearing from the other side, I used to believe they were true. Also the coy language around "debating" is part of the typical toolkit that anti-choice parents/pastors/teachers strictly teach, because to them, the concept of whether or not a person should have autonomy over their choice to reproduce is a "debate", and not a form of state-sanctioned violence against people with uteruses. (Especially cis-gendered anti-choice men. It's never "real" to them, it's a chesspiece.) 

[hpb63094]

Well said @Aimee! You articulated that much calmer and more eloquently than I could have right now.

[Sciurus carolinensis]

I have no interest in debating on this forum because I use it to destress from the tragedy that is our current political climate. But I will say this. People will die as a result of this ruling. Our nation already ranks badly when it comes to maternal mortality compared to other developed nations. There is no justification for forcing people to carry to term. People will die; living, breathing, feeling people. All in the name of the "pro-life" movement. I'm just sickened by this whole mess. 

[Musical_Shoyru]

 

7 hours ago, hpb63094 said:

Well said @Aimee! You articulated that much calmer and more eloquently than I could have right now.

I wouldn't call telling someone "you're disappointed in them" for simply stating their beliefs eloquent. I'm more sad that people can't have differing opinions nowadays without being insulted or told things like that. What happened to having a healthy discussion or people not being the same? Not one person on the opposite side has said they're disappointed in your beliefs yet someone feels the need to add that little tidbit in their post? Is that necessary? No it's not  

I'd just like to add that I'm not disappointed in any of you in this thread for thinking differently than me. Am I sad that people don't seem to see life or value it as I do? Yeah, but I also know that another beautiful part of life is we get to think differently and be different and no one should be "disappointed" in that or shamed for it.

[Duma]

I agree with @Musical_Shoyru! Even though I feel that, while all life is important (even that of a spider or a snail for example) up until a point, a person should also be allowed to make decisions about their own body.

Each and every one should also be allowed to just have their own opinion. I am for that reason keeping a close eye on this thread, and I hope we can all keep it a friendly discussion!

If at one point this thread becomes hostile towards people with different believes I will close this to keep the forum friendly!

 

I personally am sad about this law because this would mean that this freedom of believe and opinion can't be executed. People that are against abortion aren't forced into abortion, but people who feel differently about that are being forced to either move or worse.

 

[Angeló]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:27 AM, Aimee said:

I'm so sorry you have to move to the US to be with your fiancee, honestly it would be a lot better for both of you if you weren't living here right now

I don't have a choice because she takes care of her ill sister ...

I'm getting a lot of information reading your replies ... the problem is she lives in a Red State and she said they ARE going to ban abortion and force her to remove her IUD ... and we both agreed we don't want children so .................

[Musical_Shoyru]

1 hour ago, Angeló said:

I don't have a choice because she takes care of her ill sister ...

I'm getting a lot of information reading your replies ... the problem is she lives in a Red State and she said they ARE going to ban abortion and force her to remove her IUD ... and we both agreed we don't want children so .................

Is a type of birth control or a vasectomy an option for you guys? I do understand the choice of not wanting kids, all though I don't agree with abortion & I absolutely LOVE children, I can empathize not wanting kids to an extent. I do fear the idea of raising a child in this world especially as my views & beliefs are becoming that much more rare & I'd hate to have to raise a kid in an environment that doesn't respect the diversity of thought. I myself am in a tough spot when it comes to that as I'm not sure how I feel about birth control either cause I know it's not healthy to some extent, but if it's something you guys can consider & don't mind it is a thought.

[Angeló]

Yeah vasectomy is always an option. But that too may become restricted ...

[Aimee]

3 minutes ago, Angeló said:

Yeah vasectomy is always an option. But that too may become restricted ...

Actually, the legality of vasectomies has never been up for debate in the US--it's legal as long as you're 18 years or older, and will continue to be so. 

It's why a LOT of people are upset about the double standard of reproductive health care for people with uteruses, because those with a vas never have to request permission to receive a vasectomy (other than referral from a primary care physician like all specialized surgeries). However, those with a uterus have, depending on the state, to receive written or in-person permission from their husband/father or will otherwise be given a TON of shit by their doctors if they want a hysterectomy. Go figure, right?

[Duskitty]

20 hours ago, Angeló said:

I don't have a choice because she takes care of her ill sister ...

I'm getting a lot of information reading your replies ... the problem is she lives in a Red State and she said they ARE going to ban abortion and force her to remove her IUD ... and we both agreed we don't want children so .................

That's just awful. They're outlawing (hormonal) contraception as well, even if you've had the device implanted prior to the ban? Can you even be forced to remove an IUD against your will? That sounds like a major bodily violation.

At this rate it seems like they want people to be forced into having children no matter what. I just can't understand the thought process behind that. Pregnancy should not be an unavoidable 'punishment'.

I'm really sorry for you and your fiance - that sounds like a dreadful situation to be in.

[Angeló]

She said that if that happened, on her next Gyno visit they’ll have to remove it or she’ll be in legal trouble. The IUD is not just for pregnancy, it also balances her hormones , pre- and post menstruation. 

 

 

[Amanullah3456]

“The decision is implemented by states,” Biden said. “My administration is going to focus on how they administer and whether or not they violate other laws.”

 

[Duskitty]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:48 PM, Angeló said:

She said that if that happened, on her next Gyno visit they’ll have to remove it or she’ll be in legal trouble. The IUD is not just for pregnancy, it also balances her hormones , pre- and post menstruation.

That doesn't sound legal. I'm not an expert on US law, but that sounds like her doctors might be attempting to strong-arm her into going along with it without questioning it.

I'd strongly recommend that she asks them to provide her with a statement regarding this in writing, and/or get a lawyer ASAP.