rntracy1 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have a Rottweiler and a pitbull. You hear the stories about how vicious pitbulls are. Mine is a sweetie, she really is. My Rotti loves his tennis balls. Always has since he was a pup. The pitbull can take a bone away from him, a steak, a toy, ALMOST anything. But if she takes his ball away, he WILL KILL HER!!! That is not a metaphor. We try to keep the tennis balls away when they are together. It doesn't matter how many balls there are. We bought 100 balls at a tag sale. We dumped them on the floor and she didn't want him to have ANY of them. That was the first of the death matches. The second one, she ended up at the animal hospital with a severe wound to her eye. Tonight, I tried to break them apart, because if we don't, he WILL kill her, there is no two ways about it. He clamps down on her neck and won't let go. When we separate them, SHE goes right back for more. The only way the Rotti can stop her is to pin her down until she stops moving forever, or we break it up. Period. I got the short end of it tonight and ended up with 16 stitches in my left hand. It hurts so much. It is sore, it aches, it burns, it has nerve pain, so many combined pains that I literally can't stand it. I have iced it, elevated it, nothing. I will try ibuprofen, but even with the stitches, it is STILL oozing blood. My husband thought one of the dogs had gotten bitten real bad. He said, "someone got bit bad, there's blood EVERYWHERE!" I said, "It's MY blood, it's pouring out everywhere!" I was still trying to hold her back and the blood was pouring out onto the floor, on her, on the couch, everywhere. What a mess. The gash in my finger is so bad there is a chunk of flesh missing! There wasn't even enough tissue to close it up all the way! Despite all of the above, I love my dog. She did not hurt me on purpose. I know, many people here will/would say, "I wouldn't put up with that. That dog did a lot of damage to you. What if it was someone else, or god forbid, a child." She is actually the one that's good around people. I don't have worries about them around children. HONESTLY. But I know their trigger and have to be extra careful. Many would say, I would at least get rid of all the tennis balls. That isn't fair to the Rotti. I have to be more aware. I probably could have prevented this. Showering today was difficult to say the least. My hand is so swollen I cannot bend it. I am a bit concerned about compartment syndrome, so I have to keep an eye on it. But otherwise, I am hanging in there. Panthersclaw, Angeló, WhiteWolf and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellysundae Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Oh my gosh, such drama, sounds like you need a visit from Cesar Millan. Hopefully things stop bleeding soon and the swelling diminishes without leaving anything nasty behind! deboratibi, rntracy1 and WhiteWolf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Ouch, that's one nasty way to end your evening! It's too bad your Pup is so protective over the tennis balls. A smart thing as you said would be to remove the trigger, but wouldn't be fair. If you could find something equally fun to replace the tennis balls I'd give that a go. In my opinion, tennis balls are not a good toy for dogs anyways. They get destroyed in minutes and just not worth the money spent on them. I have a purebred Jack Russel and I'd give her maybe an hour with a tennis ball before it's broken, and that's being generous. We did find this super tough ball for her that lasts a very long time! Unfortunately, they're not sold anywhere and she's down to her last one. It has a bell inside and was originally designed as a cat toy, but my pup loved it and when she'd get out of the yard all we had to do was shake her ball outside and she would come bolting right back. It might be a wise idea to have a trainer or someone work with your dog(s) with the aggression over tennis balls. Next time they get into it, it could be a whole lot worse than just your hand. I hope your hand heals well and there aren't any complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillyTook Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Ouch :'( Maybe a good trainer, and not Milan, but that bites. Erm, no pun intended. Didn't spend much time googling, but maybe look into tricks to reduce resource guarding? https://www.labradortraininghq.com/labrador-behavior/resource-guarding-aggression-between-dogs/ Here's a decent looking one. At least when it gets into the step by step bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duma Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Ouch! That sounds terribly painful! I almost had troubles reading the whole thing. I really hope your hand heals up okay! When dogs are fighting they really don't know their strength, I'm sure she didn't mean to either they just don't realize it at that moment. I would let her see/smell your hand once you feel up to it now that she calmed down. She might realize it's her doing. They're not dumb and they do learn from it. Take good care of your hand though and keep an eye on it for possible infections! btw, didn't they give you any pain medication at the hospital at least for the first few days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeló Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 thank goodness you're ok !!! i was JUST reading about a british/indian girl who had a pitbull for 9 years and slept with in the same bed .. he got into a fight with another dog and ended up CHEWING OFF her arm for 10 minutes and the doctors had to amputate.. he also bit her other arm and caused serious injuries .. i like most kinds of dogs .. exept Pitbulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rntracy1 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Angeló said: i like most kinds of dogs .. exept Pitbulls Angelo, I am really sorry to hear you say that about Pitbulls. As Duma said, she didn't realize what she was doing in the heat of it. In fact, I am the one who stuck my hand in her snapping, growing, barking, biting mouth while she was in a frenzy, because I THOUGHT I could break them apart. I did not think through the consequences of my actions. When I had to fill out the paperwork regarding the dog bite, and they ask the type of dog, I thought to myself, "Ok, here we go, another skewd statistic about how yet ANOTHER pitbull attacks it's owner so viciously she needs 16 stitches and is lucky she doesn't lose her hand." Now, if It had been a chiuaua, it wouldn't be a big deal. Could have been the same situation, but the chiuaua wouldn't have done the same damage. They are meaner, just can't do the damage of a pitbull. When the pitbull gets into a zone, you can't break them out of it. My husband calls it, the pitbull wacked out, nut zone. lol. Our old pitbull used to do it too. Get EXTREMELY focused. She never bit anyone though. As I said in my post, I would trust this dog around any person, child, or baby. She is a gentle sweetheart. The Rotti, who stopped instantly, and didn't bite at all, I wouldn't trust him AT ALL with company in my house. Two very different dogs. 7 hours ago, jellysundae said: Oh my gosh, such drama, sounds like you need a visit from Cesar Millan. Hopefully things stop bleeding soon and the swelling diminishes without leaving anything nasty behind! LOL. That comment literally made me laugh out loud. Laughter IS the best medicine. Come on J, make me laugh more, I have a LOT of healing to do. lol 6 hours ago, Mouseykins said: Ouch, that's one nasty way to end your evening! It's too bad your Pup is so protective over the tennis balls. A smart thing as you said would be to remove the trigger, but wouldn't be fair. If you could find something equally fun to replace the tennis balls I'd give that a go. In my opinion, tennis balls are not a good toy for dogs anyways. They get destroyed in minutes and just not worth the money spent on them. I have a purebred Jack Russel and I'd give her maybe an hour with a tennis ball before it's broken, and that's being generous. We did find this super tough ball for her that lasts a very long time! Unfortunately, they're not sold anywhere and she's down to her last one. It has a bell inside and was originally designed as a cat toy, but my pup loved it and when she'd get out of the yard all we had to do was shake her ball outside and she would come bolting right back. It might be a wise idea to have a trainer or someone work with your dog(s) with the aggression over tennis balls. Next time they get into it, it could be a whole lot worse than just your hand. I hope your hand heals well and there aren't any complications. That is funny that you say that about the tennis balls. I don't know if I put this in my original post but, we bought 100 tennis balls at a tag sale. We dumped them ALL out and she wouldn't let him have ANY of them! NOT ONE! That was the first fight over the tennis balls. It was minor and we were able to separate them quite easily. They play in the pool with the balls all the time without issues. The pitbull doesn't enjoy the balls like the Rotti. Usually she just takes them from him, sets it down, and growls if he comes near it. She doesn't WANT it, she just doesn't want HIM to have it. If she does play with it, it is exactly as you said, she destroys it, tears it up, chews it apart. We have ball pieces everywhere. The Rotti on the other hand, does NOT destroy the tennis balls. He is very dexterous with the ball. He bats it around with his front paws, he can "throw" the ball to you. I kid you not. He can't flick it with his mouth, it goes up in the air, and you can catch it!!! It is quite amazing. He can catch it. He jumps in the air, he has great accuracy, agility, and height. I call him Jimmy for Jimmy Graham who is currently with Seattle Seahawks, but was the go to Tight End for Drew Brees and the Saints. So, I am, of course, Drew Brees, the best Quarter Back, and I throw to my Jimmy Graham. lol. The funny thing is, when I call him Jimmy, he KNOWS. He gets all excited and gets his ball. We had a ball type toy that had a sound make inside. The Rotti chewed it up to get the noise maker out. I made the mistake of putting it into a tennis ball. lol. I bet you can image what happened. Yes, he tore open EVERY tennis ball thinking there were noise makers in them. It took a LONG time and a LOT of broken tennis balls before he realized there weren't. HE doesn't destroy them anymore. She does though. I agree with you, next time could be a LOT worse, this time could have been a lot worse. I am very lucky I didn't lose fingers, my whole hand, or movement. 6 hours ago, GillyTook said: Ouch :'( Maybe a good trainer, and not Milan, but that bites. Erm, no pun intended. Didn't spend much time googling, but maybe look into tricks to reduce resource guarding? https://www.labradortraininghq.com/labrador-behavior/resource-guarding-aggression-between-dogs/ Here's a decent looking one. At least when it gets into the step by step bit. Yes, I did google that stuff too. I will check out the one you posted. My Rotti had obedience training, and I'll tell you, he listened a lot better than she did. Unfortunately we couldn't stop him LONG enough because as an animal, he is probably thinking, "why are they making ME stop, not defending myself, and she is attacking me?" He would stop but not long enough to get her off of him. And I TOTALLY get his point. Finally he did stop long enough, and he wasn't happy about it, but allowed us to deal with her. By that time I had lost a lot of blood. He just kept pinning her by her neck. I really need a trainer to work with her and her guarding of the toys. 2 hours ago, Duma said: Ouch! That sounds terribly painful! I almost had troubles reading the whole thing. I really hope your hand heals up okay! When dogs are fighting they really don't know their strength, I'm sure she didn't mean to either they just don't realize it at that moment. I would let her see/smell your hand once you feel up to it now that she calmed down. She might realize it's her doing. They're not dumb and they do learn from it. Take good care of your hand though and keep an eye on it for possible infections! btw, didn't they give you any pain medication at the hospital at least for the first few days? Duma, it is funny that you mentioned about letting her see/smell it. I let BOTH of them. Neither one of them will leave my side. I think she does realize what she did because when I show her the hand, her ears go down and back, she lowers her head and wags her tail. It "looks" like she is saying, I'm sorry Twacy. (that's how I think she would say my name. lol). The Rotti, won't leave my side either, and doesn't want me to pet him with that hand. He gets very uneasy, takes his paw and pulls my hand down!!!! He NEVER pulls your hand away when you pet him. He wants to be pet 24 hrs per day!! I think they both realize it's hurt and she knows she is the one who caused it. As far as pain medication, they did offer, I declined. 800 ibuprofen is doing well, but when it wears off, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! It hurts like something I cannot even tolerate. I think I tolerate pain fairly well. I wasn't going to go get stitches at all because I didn't want the pain of the lidocaine injection. I have seen people screaming from the burning of it. I was terrified. So she told me, "a small little stick and a burn like a beesting." I didn't feel much. I said, "is that it?" She said, yes. After she finished numbing it all up, I said, "is this seriously what people yell and scream about as far burning and stinging?' She said, yes. I was like, "WOW! It wasn't FUN, but it was nothing to scream about. I was so terrified to point I wasn't even going to come here, for nothing." Thanks to all of you for your well wishes. I will keep you posted. I would post the pictures but they are too big. I will see if I can scale them down and post them. The swelling now is my main concern. Everything is so tight. Panthersclaw and deboratibi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deboratibi Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Wow, 16 stitches! I can't even imagine how bad that hurts. I don't have dogs, but if I did, I wouldn't blame them either if something like this happened. If anyone thinks your doggo deserves to be punished or whatever because of this, well, I hope they don't have pets of their own. One time my cat hurt me because he got his paw stuck under a door, and he was so desperate that he didn't realise I was trying to help him. He bit my finger several times - I still have the scars today (that happened at least 5 years ago). I got 0 stitches, so I can't compare to your injury, but the point is, I 100% understand why he bit me. The nurses at the ER certainly didn't, so they made fun of me. They were like, "how did you let a cat do this to you?" Anyway, I hope the pain becomes a lot more manageable soon, and that your hand heals as quickly as possible! Mouseykins, rntracy1 and Panthersclaw 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 54 minutes ago, rntracy1 said: In fact, I am the one who stuck my hand in her snapping, growing, barking, biting mouth while she was in a frenzy, because I THOUGHT I could break them apart. I did not think through the consequences of my actions. I did this exact same thing once. It was 6 am in the morning and I was getting up to get ready for work and the two girl pups, Mouse and her sister, decided to go at for some dumb reason. I stuck my forearm in the middle of them to pull Princess off Mouse and Mouse I pinned down a bit with my forearm and she latched right onto me and would not let go. I had to force my finger into her mouth to push down on her tongue to get her to let go of my arm. She was literally hanging onto my arm. I lifted her up and tried to jostle her free over our bed. I ended up with 3 puncture marks on my arm from her teeth that thankfully weren't deep enough to draw blood or require a visit to the ER. Jack Russels have very powerful bites for such a small dog. Now wait for it...... they were about 4 months old! I thought twice next time about breaking them apart. They usually ended up with a stuffed toy being tossed at them or taps on their bottoms. The worst ones when they were little we'd grab them by the scruff of the neck and pull one or both apart. Since the pain is horrible after the ibuprofen wears off, try the piggyback method with acetaminophen. Space them out so that your pain is managed around the clock for the next day or so then try weaning off the extra acetaminophen. My doctor always says it's easier to manage the pain away then it is to always wait until you're in pain before medicating. I'll usually go acetaminophen first since it has a shorter life, then 2 hours later ibuprofen and before that wears off it's safe to take another acetaminophen. I've done this with my girls for teething and ear infections mostly at night though so you may want to space them and piggyback them a bit differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanso Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Sorry if I sound rude, but why would you keep these dogs under the same roof if it's quite likely that one could kill the other? After those two "death matches", as you call them, took place, did you at least consider to separate them permanently? I know it must be hard for you and your dogs, but if you really love them, I'm sure you wouldn't want one of them to, you know, die. If they fought like that three times already, it will happen again. Once again, sorry if I sounded rude. Hope your hand gets better asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeló Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 hours ago, rntracy1 said: Angelo, I am really sorry to hear you say that about Pitbulls. As Duma said, she didn't realize what she was doing in the heat of it. In fact, I am the one who stuck my hand in her snapping, growing, barking, biting mouth while she was in a frenzy, because I THOUGHT I could break them apart. I did not think through the consequences of my actions. When I had to fill out the paperwork regarding the dog bite, and they ask the type of dog, I thought to myself, "Ok, here we go, another skewd statistic about how yet ANOTHER pitbull attacks it's owner so viciously she needs 16 stitches and is lucky she doesn't lose her hand." Now, if It had been a chiuaua, it wouldn't be a big deal. Could have been the same situation, but the chiuaua wouldn't have done the same damage. They are meaner, just can't do the damage of a pitbull. When the pitbull gets into a zone, you can't break them out of it. My husband calls it, the pitbull wacked out, nut zone. lol. Our old pitbull used to do it too. Get EXTREMELY focused. She never bit anyone though. As I said in my post, I would trust this dog around any person, child, or baby. She is a gentle sweetheart. The Rotti, who stopped instantly, and didn't bite at all, I wouldn't trust him AT ALL with company in my house. Two very different dogs. i understand .. perhaps we are mis-informed about the Pitbulls .. hope your hand heals quick :) we need our nurse back :* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellysundae Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 10 hours ago, rntracy1 said: yet ANOTHER pitbull attacks it's owner so viciously she needs 16 stitches and is lucky she doesn't lose her hand." Now, if It had been a chiuaua, it wouldn't be a big deal. *snorts* Actually, I think you'd find that if a chihuahua inflicted that kind of damage it would probably be the biggest deal EVER. Attack of the 50ft Killer Chihuahua . . . Anyways . . .I'm glad it's really clear that both your doggos are well aware that your injury is their fault and they obviously feel much guilt about this, (are you the Alpha dog to them then, or is hubby?) What happened to you is basically collateral damage though, isn't it. Just like when a person tries to split up two people who are fighting and end up getting hit by both of them, the punches weren't aimed at the third person, they just got in the way, and powerful dogs are WAY stronger than most people so the human trying to separate them is bound to come off worse. Hopefully NO-ONE tries to make a thing of you being bitten. This wasn't an unprovoked attack, you just got your arm in the way of what was already going on.That's like trying to blame the kettle for scalding you when you've put your arm directly into the steam . . . I got injured in the same kind of way myself, though on a VASTLY smaller scale . . . I got mauled by one of my dwarf hamsters one day 100% my own fault, they'd got to the stage where they'd fight if you had them together, so I held one up to the cage of the other so they could see each other (real sensible, right? ) the one I had in my hand hooked his paw over the bars of the cage and pulled himself, and consequently my hand, forward and tried to bite his brother. But because he was in my hand what he actually sank his teeth into was my finger. ;~; Thankfully I didn't react by jerking and flinging him across the room or anything, but I DID learn to not do that again. Angeló and Panthersclaw 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babayaga67 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I have a very nice dog. He is an Australian Shepard/Border Collie mix. The only problem I have ever had with him was once when my oldest son was a little over a year old. My son was harassing the poor dog, trying to pull his lip off and attempting to rip his ears off of his head. The dog whimpered so I started heading back to the room to pull my son off of the dog. I wasn't fast enough. I heard a loud cry of pain from my dog and then my son started screaming. I threw the 50 lb dog outside and grabbed up my baby fearing the worst. My dog did nip him, but that was it. It took me almost two full minutes to find the marks on his hand, and those were negligible and gone after a couple of minutes. There was no bleeding or broken skin and only slight discoloration. My son was really more scared than anything. I am SO glad that my dog is the most tolerant dog I have ever seen with kids. There had been several instances where I would have to pull my son off of the dog because he was potentially hurting the dog, but the dog couldn't get away without knocking him over. as long as the dog isn't cornered then he will walk away when it becomes too much. My dog knew the second that my son started screaming that he had messed up. He didn't even fight me when I booted him (not literally) outside. He was hanging his head for days and wouldn't go near my son because he was afraid of me. I was bit once when I tried to break up a dog fight, but that was MY fault. Anyone who sticks their own hand in between two dogs that are fighting only has themselves to blame if they are injured. The dogs don't attack the human on purpose. My sister was bit once when she tried to break up a fight between her dog and another dog (over who was allowed to eat which flavor of ice cream that night). She blames the dog and refuses to go over to my grandmother's house unless the dog is closed in a back room. @rntracy1 I am sorry that you were bit, but I am glad that you are not going to freak out and put your dog down. I hate to admit it to myself, but there are times when I am wrong (I know, I know, it's hard to believe). I am not trying to mock you or insult you, I'm just glad that you are grounded enough to realize that you were at least partially to blame so that your puppies don't have to suffer unjustly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellysundae Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, babayaga67 said: I have a very nice dog. He is an Australian Shepard/Border Collie mix. The only problem I have ever had with him was once when my oldest son was a little over a year old. My son was harassing the poor dog, trying to pull his lip off and attempting to rip his ears off of his head. The dog whimpered so I started heading back to the room to pull my son off of the dog. I wasn't fast enough. I heard a loud cry of pain from my dog and then my son started screaming. I threw the 50 lb dog outside and grabbed up my baby fearing the worst. My dog did nip him, but that was it. It took me almost two full minutes to find the marks on his hand, and those were negligible and gone after a couple of minutes. There was no bleeding or broken skin and only slight discoloration. My son was really more scared than anything. I am SO glad that my dog is the most tolerant dog I have ever seen with kids. There had been several instances where I would have to pull my son off of the dog because he was potentially hurting the dog, but the dog couldn't get away without knocking him over. as long as the dog isn't cornered then he will walk away when it becomes too much. My dog knew the second that my son started screaming that he had messed up. He didn't even fight me when I booted him (not literally) outside. He was hanging his head for days and wouldn't go near my son because he was afraid of me. I was bit once when I tried to break up a dog fight, but that was MY fault. Anyone who sticks their own hand in between two dogs that are fighting only has themselves to blame if they are injured. The dogs don't attack the human on purpose. My sister was bit once when she tried to break up a fight between her dog and another dog (over who was allowed to eat which flavor of ice cream that night). She blames the dog and refuses to go over to my grandmother's house unless the dog is closed in a back room. @rntracy1 I am sorry that you were bit, but I am glad that you are not going to freak out and put your dog down. I hate to admit it to myself, but there are times when I am wrong (I know, I know, it's hard to believe). I am not trying to mock you or insult you, I'm just glad that you are grounded enough to realize that you were at least partially to blame so that your puppies don't have to suffer unjustly. Your dog sounds amazing! Just the tiniest nip despite having considerable pain inflicted on it. Actually, that right there is the big difference between humans and all other animals, isn't it . . . your kid was really hurting the dog but it was pretty stoic about it until something really painful was done, but the baby screamed like he was being murdered at a really minor nip. All other animals complain far less about pain than we do, I wonder what that's all about! But what I really want to know is, when did your son learn to stop harassing the dog? I've no idea at what kind of age a baby learns that what it's doing to someone/thing else is causing pain to that person, and to stop it. Whether they're able to connect the same thing happening to them and what it feels like, with what they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babayaga67 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, jellysundae said: But what I really want to know is, when did your son learn to stop harassing the dog? The day that he was nipped was the last day that he pulled on the dog's ear or face. He does still try to ride the dog sometimes, but we've trained the dog to just walk off if he doesn't want the boy riding him. Sometimes the dog will just sit down when one of the kids tries to climb on him, and I think that he actually likes the attention. Sometimes he still walks away from my oldest, but my daughter is so small that I don't think it is even possible for her to hurt him. @rntracy1 and @Mouseykins - Have you guys thought about buying a couple of cheap brooms from the dollar store and stashing them around the house to use for breaking up brawls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellysundae Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Nice! Lesson learnt very quickly then! I think growing up with a dog's really good for babies, they clearly learn so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 @babayaga67 Mouse is now 11 years old, so that incident was a LONG time ago :laugh: I trust Mouse 100% with my girls. I've even put her in the little babes' crib and she just sniffed her over and laid down beside her. Now, on the other hand, it's the two older ones I don't trust with her. Especially the oldest! I've caught her hitting and being mean to Mouse. The middle monster tries riding Mouse but I tell her not to or she could hurt Mouse. I have to commend Mouse for putting up with all their nasty tricks. She's lunged and gone after them snarling and teeth bared, and you'd think she'd actually bite. Nope, she just hits them with her nose and even if she does get a hand in her mouth, she NEVER leaves a mark. It's just hard enough to get her point across. @rntracy1 How is your hand doing today? Panthersclaw and babayaga67 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panthersclaw Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Wow that stinks about your hand, I mean 16 stitches? . I hope it heals asap. At least she understood that she was the one that caused it, and you are aware that you are partially responsible for your injury. I would also suggest training to curb the guarding behavior and possibly removing the trigger, but as others said that isn't really fair to the Rotti. I hate the stigma against Pitbulls. Pitties are naturally sweet, loving and loyal dogs , and many of those who are "vicious" were bred, raised and trained to be that way, or they were scared or nervous and the person bitten didn't see the warning signs and got too close. rntracy1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rntracy1 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 1:55 AM, Mouseykins said: I did this exact same thing once. It was 6 am in the morning and I was getting up to get ready for work and the two girl pups, Mouse and her sister, decided to go at for some dumb reason. I stuck my forearm in the middle of them to pull Princess off Mouse and Mouse I pinned down a bit with my forearm and she latched right onto me and would not let go. I had to force my finger into her mouth to push down on her tongue to get her to let go of my arm. She was literally hanging onto my arm. I lifted her up and tried to jostle her free over our bed. I ended up with 3 puncture marks on my arm from her teeth that thankfully weren't deep enough to draw blood or require a visit to the ER. Jack Russels have very powerful bites for such a small dog. Now wait for it...... they were about 4 months old! I thought twice next time about breaking them apart. They usually ended up with a stuffed toy being tossed at them or taps on their bottoms. The worst ones when they were little we'd grab them by the scruff of the neck and pull one or both apart. Since the pain is horrible after the ibuprofen wears off, try the piggyback method with acetaminophen. Space them out so that your pain is managed around the clock for the next day or so then try weaning off the extra acetaminophen. My doctor always says it's easier to manage the pain away then it is to always wait until you're in pain before medicating. I'll usually go acetaminophen first since it has a shorter life, then 2 hours later ibuprofen and before that wears off it's safe to take another acetaminophen. I've done this with my girls for teething and ear infections mostly at night though so you may want to space them and piggyback them a bit differently. My doctor told me to do that with the Ibuprofen/Acetaminophen. I am not a huge fan of Tylenol but I think in this case, if it keeps the pain at bay, I am willing to try anything. My hand is so swollen it looks like a balloon. It is warm, red, very tight, I can't bend it. Not to mention the deep ache from the bruising. I wish smacking their bottoms would work, lol. My Rotti weighs more than I do. He pins me against the wall and licks me. He is taller than I am when he stands on his hind legs, and he weighs 125-130 lbs. The pitbull is 60 lbs. They are almost 200 lbs of pure muscle. Let's put it this way, they BETTER protect me if anyone comes into my house. lol. On 2/4/2018 at 2:11 AM, Hanso said: Sorry if I sound rude, but why would you keep these dogs under the same roof if it's quite likely that one could kill the other? After those two "death matches", as you call them, took place, did you at least consider to separate them permanently? I know it must be hard for you and your dogs, but if you really love them, I'm sure you wouldn't want one of them to, you know, die. If they fought like that three times already, it will happen again. Once again, sorry if I sounded rude. Hope your hand gets better asap. You don't sound rude at all. In fact, I thank you for your concern and I welcome your questions. Now to answer them. You are absolutely right, I do not want my dog to die. Most likely the pitbull. I FEEL that I know their trigger now pretty well. Like I said, she can take ANYTHING from him, except his tennis ball. We have removed the tennis balls. Like I said before, it isn't fair to the Rotti to take his toys away from him. And I will not do that. He will have them outside in the yard by himself. But when they are together, we know they cannot have them. You are right, if we don't take the proper precautions, it will happen again. We have to be responsible owners and recognize that. That is why we are going to get professionals involved at this point. This isn't the worst fight. For THEM, it was the LEAST for injuries. Neither one of them had any wounds. For my husband and me, it was the worst for injuries, I think because it was the hardest to break up. When we do separate them, even over night, they whine and cry. They love each other. That's why I don't get why they fight like that. I mean, MAYBE if we let them fight it out, they would stop on their own, but I don't see that happening. So again, thank you so much for your question. I don't feel it was rude at all. I totally understand where you are coming from. In fact, I am grateful for all the love and support from everyone here. On 2/4/2018 at 6:12 AM, Angeló said: i understand .. perhaps we are mis-informed about the Pitbulls .. hope your hand heals quick :) we need our nurse back :* Unfortunately, being a large, very strong breed, when they bite, even when unprovoked like my situation, they can inflict a tremendous amount of damage. This gives them a bad rep. You aren't going to hear about all the little dog bites that don't do any damage. And honestly, people don't report them. I wasn't going to go to the hospital with mine!!!!! lol. How ridiculous, right? The reason I did is because it wouldn't stop bleeding. It just bled and bled and bled. My husband said, "If the police came, they would have thought someone was murdered here." Even after the stitches, it kept oozing. It's STILL oozing. I had no choice, and I really didn't want to go. I knew I would have to report my dog. I really feel bad when I read stories about people abusing animals, and when it is a pitbull people make comments such as, "good, the only good pitbull is a dead pitbull. Every pitbull should be abused." It is such a horrible thing to say. (I know you aren't saying that Angelo). I am just speaking about people being misinformed about the breed, because they really are sweet dogs. If you raise any dog to be mean, it will be. Just like what happened to me was MY fault, it has nothing to do with her breed. Only the damage she inflicted due to her strength. Thanks for your well wishes. On 2/4/2018 at 11:08 AM, jellysundae said: *snorts* Actually, I think you'd find that if a chihuahua inflicted that kind of damage it would probably be the biggest deal EVER. Attack of the 50ft Killer Chihuahua . . . Anyways . . .I'm glad it's really clear that both your doggos are well aware that your injury is their fault and they obviously feel much guilt about this, (are you the Alpha dog to them then, or is hubby?) What happened to you is basically collateral damage though, isn't it. Just like when a person tries to split up two people who are fighting and end up getting hit by both of them, the punches weren't aimed at the third person, they just got in the way, and powerful dogs are WAY stronger than most people so the human trying to separate them is bound to come off worse. Hopefully NO-ONE tries to make a thing of you being bitten. This wasn't an unprovoked attack, you just got your arm in the way of what was already going on.That's like trying to blame the kettle for scalding you when you've put your arm directly into the steam . . . I got injured in the same kind of way myself, though on a VASTLY smaller scale . . . I got mauled by one of my dwarf hamsters one day 100% my own fault, they'd got to the stage where they'd fight if you had them together, so I held one up to the cage of the other so they could see each other (real sensible, right? ) the one I had in my hand hooked his paw over the bars of the cage and pulled himself, and consequently my hand, forward and tried to bite his brother. But because he was in my hand what he actually sank his teeth into was my finger. ;~; Thankfully I didn't react by jerking and flinging him across the room or anything, but I DID learn to not do that again. LOL. You did it AGAIN!!! That was funny. (I guess I did spell Chihuahua incorrectly too, eh?). I suppose you are right, it WOULD be the biggest deal ever, hence you have made my point. Pitbulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Dobermans, etc. are BIG, STRONG, dogs, capable of inflicting a lot of damage when they bite. That doesn't mean they are mean, vicious dogs. I know some small, annoying yappers that are mean and vicious, but because they cannot inflict the type of damage a larger dog can, they don't have the reputation. I will guarantee you, if every SINGLE dog bite, I mean EVERY ONE, was reported, even the ones that do not inflict major damage, I bet you would find that the major of them are NOT large dog breeds. However, those are the ones that make the news because, well, like you said, if a little dog could inflict that type of damage it would be the biggest deal ever. It's the ones that do the damage that you hear about, but you rarely hear about the motive behind it. On 2/4/2018 at 1:19 PM, babayaga67 said: I have a very nice dog. He is an Australian Shepard/Border Collie mix. The only problem I have ever had with him was once when my oldest son was a little over a year old. My son was harassing the poor dog, trying to pull his lip off and attempting to rip his ears off of his head. The dog whimpered so I started heading back to the room to pull my son off of the dog. I wasn't fast enough. I heard a loud cry of pain from my dog and then my son started screaming. I threw the 50 lb dog outside and grabbed up my baby fearing the worst. My dog did nip him, but that was it. It took me almost two full minutes to find the marks on his hand, and those were negligible and gone after a couple of minutes. There was no bleeding or broken skin and only slight discoloration. My son was really more scared than anything. I am SO glad that my dog is the most tolerant dog I have ever seen with kids. There had been several instances where I would have to pull my son off of the dog because he was potentially hurting the dog, but the dog couldn't get away without knocking him over. as long as the dog isn't cornered then he will walk away when it becomes too much. My dog knew the second that my son started screaming that he had messed up. He didn't even fight me when I booted him (not literally) outside. He was hanging his head for days and wouldn't go near my son because he was afraid of me. I was bit once when I tried to break up a dog fight, but that was MY fault. Anyone who sticks their own hand in between two dogs that are fighting only has themselves to blame if they are injured. The dogs don't attack the human on purpose. My sister was bit once when she tried to break up a fight between her dog and another dog (over who was allowed to eat which flavor of ice cream that night). She blames the dog and refuses to go over to my grandmother's house unless the dog is closed in a back room. @rntracy1 I am sorry that you were bit, but I am glad that you are not going to freak out and put your dog down. I hate to admit it to myself, but there are times when I am wrong (I know, I know, it's hard to believe). I am not trying to mock you or insult you, I'm just glad that you are grounded enough to realize that you were at least partially to blame so that your puppies don't have to suffer unjustly. OMG, NO WAY! I would never put my dog down for something that she did not do on purpose, that was MY FAULT. I take full responsibility that they fought in the first place and that I put my hand in harm's way. I did that to HELP the situation, but I ended up making things worse. I would have a hard time relinquishing my dog if she outright attacked me! I would probably try to make excuses for her. I was afraid that everyone would say, "you are crazy for keeping your dog after an injury like that!" I am glad that people understand that she wasn't attacking me, she was doing what animals do and I got in the middle of it. Actually, I THANK YOU for your understanding of dogs and realizing that it was MY fault and not hers. LOL. I did not feel you were mocking/insulting me at all. In fact, I feel much more than partially responsible. I feel mostly responsible. I honestly expected way more criticism regarding my sympathy for dog and for keeping her. Everyone here has been amazing. I think for the most part, dogs are pretty tolerant with children. They seem to know. When they maul children or attack, I think the child is doing something to antagonize the dog(as you said your child was- although your child was just a baby- some of these kids know better). My dogs have always been very tolerant with my kids. deboratibi, Hanso and jellysundae 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, rntracy1 said: My doctor told me to do that with the Ibuprofen/Acetaminophen. I am not a huge fan of Tylenol but I think in this case, if it keeps the pain at bay, I am willing to try anything. My hand is so swollen it looks like a balloon. It is warm, red, very tight, I can't bend it. Not to mention the deep ache from the bruising. I wish smacking their bottoms would work, lol. My Rotti weighs more than I do. He pins me against the wall and licks me. He is taller than I am when he stands on his hind legs, and he weighs 125-130 lbs. The pitbull is 60 lbs. They are almost 200 lbs of pure muscle. Let's put it this way, they BETTER protect me if anyone comes into my house. lol. I'm not a huge fan of Tylenol either but I have a bottle still from when I was pregnant with Little Babes that I need to finish. For all my girls Ibuprofen is my first choice. For your big pups smacks on the bottom would be useless. But for 4-month-old little Jack Russel pups, it gets the job done :laugh: Mouse is just a small thing and if anyone comes into the yard she will stand her guard unless I tell her it's alright. She startled the meter reader guy a couple of times. He was scared she'd bite, she was on his heels like glue barking at him. I told her to be nice that he was allowed in the yard and to go get her toy. I had the town's Bylaw Officer at my door last summer and he was all arrogant, rude, and very aggressive in tone and the way he was standing with his hands on his hips. Mouse did not like that one bit and she snapped at his heels. If I wouldn't have called her off she may have took a nip. Goes to show it's not just the big dogs you have to watch out for. Little ones can be just as protective! I hope your hand feels better tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duma Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 18 hours ago, rntracy1 said: LOL. You did it AGAIN!!! That was funny. (I guess I did spell Chihuahua incorrectly too, eh?). I suppose you are right, it WOULD be the biggest deal ever, hence you have made my point. Pitbulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Dobermans, etc. are BIG, STRONG, dogs, capable of inflicting a lot of damage when they bite. That doesn't mean they are mean, vicious dogs. I know some small, annoying yappers that are mean and vicious, but because they cannot inflict the type of damage a larger dog can, they don't have the reputation. I will guarantee you, if every SINGLE dog bite, I mean EVERY ONE, was reported, even the ones that do not inflict major damage, I bet you would find that the major of them are NOT large dog breeds. However, those are the ones that make the news because, well, like you said, if a little dog could inflict that type of damage it would be the biggest deal ever. It's the ones that do the damage that you hear about, but you rarely hear about the motive behind it. I think for the most part, dogs are pretty tolerant with children. They seem to know. When they maul children or attack, I think the child is doing something to antagonize the dog(as you said your child was- although your child was just a baby- some of these kids know better). My dogs have always been very tolerant with my kids. That is so true! I would trust a big dog over any tiny dog! The only times I've been bitten was by little dogs. My grandparents tiny poodle bit me and a jack Russel bit me. My parents had a middle size dog that was part doberman and later they had a German Shepherd. Those were the sweetest dogs! Especially the middle sized one. He was trained by my mom and listened to anything. When we as little kids would go and bug him he would go to my mom and/or growl just loud enough for her to hear it. My mom would pull us away from him and that was it. My sister once fell down the stairs with him walking beside her. As she fell she grabbed his fur, pulling out a handful and all he did was stand his ground giving her a footing with a little hurt sound as the hairs were being pulled out. The shepherd was very sweet as well, but not as well trained (we all wanted to help out as kids and that just works against training). He knew my mom was the boss though, but he might have been more protective in a little more aggressive way, barking a lot more. He accidentally nipped someone while barking trying to protect me, but since he wouldn't accept my "it's okay" and my mom wasn't around he kept barking really close to the person's arms. That person was swinging his arm a lot while talking to me. It was an accident for sure but being a big dog even an unintentional nip (since he was actually just barking and the person came down with his arm as he barked upwards) drew some blood. It was just a tiny scrape though. But I punished the dog by not doing the walk we were about to do and helped the person. Luckily that person always had German Shepherds himself (a lot more violent raised ones! They were trained for guarding and needed to be locked up the moment someone rang the door) so he wasn't mad either. In my opinion big dogs are less aggressive when raised right, than little ones, but the little ones usually don't do so much damage, so like you say it doesn't get reported. Any dog raised right can be gentle and any dog raised violent will be violent. Breed does not matter. And at least you see the big ones coming up to you, compared to the little ones that are suddenly hanging in your pants! edit: And also: I think a lot more people tend to get some decent training or put in more time for training when they get a big dog. compared to people that take a little dog and then don't give them any training at all, they just want a pet and treat it as if it's a fish. They give it food and toys and care for it. They love petting them and snuggling but they forget to teach them rules. Of course not every little dog owner is like that, but I get the feeling it just happens a lot more with little dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 13 hours ago, Duma said: Any dog raised right can be gentle and any dog raised violent will be violent. Breed does not matter. And at least you see the big ones coming up to you, compared to the little ones that are suddenly hanging in your pants! This so much! It's all about how a dog is raised that determines how it will be as an adult. Tracy has obviously raised her dogs right, they just have a little competition issue over a tennis ball. The little ones can come around that corner so fast and be on you before you have a chance to get your bearings. Personally, I don't necessarily care for big dogs. I had a German Shepherd Collie X and he was the best boy ever, except he hated feet when they moved on the bed and didn't snuggle with me. He would sleep outside my room though sometimes. I guess I've been spoiled by the love and loyalty of my little Jack Russels. Plus they take up less room on the bed and couch and are more snuggleable. :laugh: They can be vicious if they're provoked and are not trained properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babayaga67 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I feel that this must be said because everyone else has ignored it - @rntracy1 If you have 16 stitches in your hand AND it is oozing, HOW CAN YOU TYPE SO MUCH?!?! GO DOGS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rntracy1 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Mouseykins said: This so much! It's all about how a dog is raised that determines how it will be as an adult. Tracy has obviously raised her dogs right, they just have a little competition issue over a tennis ball. The little ones can come around that corner so fast and be on you before you have a chance to get your bearings. Personally, I don't necessarily care for big dogs. I had a German Shepherd Collie X and he was the best boy ever, except he hated feet when they moved on the bed and didn't snuggle with me. He would sleep outside my room though sometimes. I guess I've been spoiled by the love and loyalty of my little Jack Russels. Plus they take up less room on the bed and couch and are more snuggleable. They can be vicious if they're provoked and are not trained properly. Thank you so much Mouseykins. My dogs are treated like family. They are house dogs, have a fabulous fenced in back yard, swim in the pool during the summer, etc. They just got a little over zealous with the tennis ball. You are definitely right about smaller dogs taking up less room on the couch, lol. My Rotti, he takes up the WHOLE couch. lol. Everyone has their preferences as to big dogs or small dogs, and their reasons are solid. Like you said, depending upon how they are raised determines their nature. Honestly, you see the pitbulls who have been fought, used as bait dogs, and/or severely abused, yet they are the most loving, loyal dogs. You would think they would want to bite the first human who came near them. They are so forgiving. I am taking a page from that book and I am going to be forgiving too. 4 hours ago, babayaga67 said: I feel that this must be said because everyone else has ignored it - @rntracy1 If you have 16 stitches in your hand AND it is oozing, HOW CAN YOU TYPE SO MUCH?!?! GO DOGS! WOW! I am slightly offended by that! First of all, why MUST it be said? why do you care if and/or how much I can type? Nobody else has IGNORED it, they just don't see it as a big issue. Your ALL CAPS makes me feel that maybe you don't believe me and think I am not telling the truth. That sounds like a personal problem. I can send you pictures if you want. I tried to upload them here but they are too big and I don't know how to shrink them down without losing quality. I will give it a try. But I will explain it for those who feel it is their business, somehow, the damage was only inflicted to dorsum or my hand, or what most people call, the top of the hand, nothing on the palm at all, which I have no idea how that happened. It is oozing yes, but it is bandaged!!!! So it is oozing blood into the bandages, not all over the keyboard!!!! While it is extremely sore, I am able to type, MOSTLY WITH ONE HAND, after the pain meds kick in. And if you notice, it has taken me quite a while to respond. AND GUESS WHAT?????? I am a nurse and I went to work too!!!!!!! With 16 stitches, my hand swollen up like a balloon that I can barely bend, and oozing through dressings. Getting medicine bottles open is almost impossible, yet I have to do that all day!!!!! I had to ask one of my students to open one for me!!!! Anything else that maybe doesn't sit right with you? Sorry to everyone else here if this seems rude, but I feel this comment was offensive and unnecessary. I certainly don't see why it HAD to be said. Yes, my hand hurt a lot and I still typed. So what? Mouseykins and Duma 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseykins Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, rntracy1 said: Thank you so much Mouseykins. My dogs are treated like family. They are house dogs, have a fabulous fenced in back yard, swim in the pool during the summer, etc. They just got a little over zealous with the tennis ball. You are definitely right about smaller dogs taking up less room on the couch, lol. My Rotti, he takes up the WHOLE couch. lol. Everyone has their preferences as to big dogs or small dogs, and their reasons are solid. Like you said, depending upon how they are raised determines their nature. Honestly, you see the pitbulls who have been fought, used as bait dogs, and/or severely abused, yet they are the most loving, loyal dogs. You would think they would want to bite the first human who came near them. They are so forgiving. I am taking a page from that book and I am going to be forgiving too. You're welcome! LOL at your dogs in the pool during the summer. If we had a pool there would be no way we'd be able to get Mouse out of it! She is a water-loving pup! Right now she's actually begging me for a bath and I can't give her one because it's super cold out. In the tub, she'll drink like a gallon of water and either burp it up (nasty!) if she's too full and she has to go out right away. I think if we had a pool we wouldn't be able to put any chemicals in it to treat the water since she'd most likely be drinking it. I'm glad you're going to be forgiving. Your pup knows who hurt your hand and I'm sure is very sorry for it since they're both refusing to leave your side. Dogs are so loyal, aren't they! 2 hours ago, rntracy1 said: While it is extremely sore, I am able to type, MOSTLY WITH ONE HAND, after the pain meds kick in. I frequently type with one hand. After a while, you get used to it and are quick with it. Though your typos increase slightly lol. I can type with both my left and right hand. Depending on which I'm holding a baby in. I even managed to type with a wrist splint brace on my left hand. rntracy1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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