Thanksgiving: valid or hypocritical?

[leverhelven]

First off, I'm not an American, so I never celebrated Thanksgiving. But as a former History student and having an interest in History in general, I've read quite a lot about it, and I understand there is a polemic regarding the Native Americans, who find it an insult since they've suffered the loss of lands, hunger and poverty in the hands of the same "White People" who celebrate this date.

 

I'd like to know you guys' opinions, not only Americans but anyone interested in this subjects. If you're American, do you celebrate it? Regardless of nationality, what do you think of Thanksgiving as a celebration? Do you think it's a valid holiday or an example of hypocrisy?

[HomuraAkemiTheHero]

I do celebrate Thanksgiving and I think it is a valid holiday. Thanksgiving is a great time for a family reunion of sorts and to make meals together and celebrate all that we have.Although I think it could also be hypocrisy depending on the way you look at it. The loss of lands,hunger,and poverty were in the past but some are still bitter I guess that would be the word for it about what happened. I can understand why they would but sometimes you have to move on. My family actually does have some Native American ties as well and we still celebrate regardless despite the fact the tribe we are descended from have died from diseases and illness brought by new settlers and others have starved.Although some take Thanksgiving as the only day where they say they are thankful but it should be every day where you are thankful. So really I guess depending on the way someone celebrates Thanksgiving it could be valid or hypocritical.

[Shelley]

If we're gonna talk about hypocritical holidays, let's talk Columbus day! lol. Since the holiday just passed I actually saw in the news people have been protesting to get this holiday removed, while others want to rename it "Italian Heritage Day". I mean everyone gets a day off school/work to celebrate a man a went on a "rein of terror" against the native people. Also he was not the first man to discover the Americas...I just think it's an odd holiday

 

When I personallycelebrate Thanksgiving, it has nothing to do with Pilgrims and Native Americans. We don't decorate our house with any kind of historical iconography. The whole holiday traditional "story" that's told is so full of lies and misconceptions. Thanksgiving was celebrated by Native Americans far before Europeans arrived. It was a time to reflect on your blessings, much like we do today. The problem that lies in Thanksgiving is that we forget the destruction and harm that was caused. We fail to recognize the true facts behind this holiday- that not many Native Americans were invited, relationships were not good between the to people, and one of the first thanksgivings was celebrated to commemorate the terrible massacre of a Native American tribe- men, women and children.

 

I think what we teach children in school is ludicrous. Let's stop all the school plays depicting the first thanksgiving feast and recognize the truth. I mean they didn't even eat turkey for god's sake!

 

Today we don't celebrate this holiday in honor of the pilgrims, we celebrate for family, for friends, and for everything good in our lives. While the origins of this holiday with the Europeans include terrible stories of loss and suffering for the Native people, we've departed from history and observe this holiday now as a time to be thankful for our personal blessings. I don't see anything wrong with a family coming together to share a meal and express their love for one another.But I also think it's important to recognize the cruel injustices that took place in our past and not just sweep them under the rug. Let's teach our children real history and not a sugar coated westernized version of it.

[Angeló]

I'm not American but I love Turkey & cranberries and I wish we had a Turkey holiday , since it's not a Christmas tradition for us either - people here prefer cake and wine. So I guess I'd celebrate it for the food :D

 

[Emily]

I'm Canadian and we celebrate Thankgsgiving in October. Ours is definitely about being thankful for what you have and more of a social holiday than a "historical" one. My mom's American, so we usually celebrate both, but they both take on this same form. I think that's what the holiday has really become in the States too. A social holiday. Images of pilgrims and stuff are still ingrained in the holiday, but that's not really what we celebrate now. It's more like I'm happy to live in this country, I'm happy I have family and friends with me, and I'm happy I have good food.

[leverhelven]

If we're gonna talk about hypocritical holidays, let's talk Columbus day! lol. Since the holiday just passed I actually saw in the news people have been protesting to get this holiday removed, while others want to rename it "Italian Heritage Day". I mean everyone gets a day off school/work to celebrate a man a went on a "rein of terror" against the native people. Also he was not the first man to discover the Americas...I just think it's an odd holiday

 

When I personallycelebrate Thanksgiving, it has nothing to do with Pilgrims and Native Americans. We don't decorate our house with any kind of historical iconography. The whole holiday traditional "story" that's told is so full of lies and misconceptions. Thanksgiving was celebrated by Native Americans far before Europeans arrived. It was a time to reflect on your blessings, much like we do today. The problem that lies in Thanksgiving is that we forget the destruction and harm that was caused. We fail to recognize the true facts behind this holiday- that not many Native Americans were invited, relationships were not good between the to people, and one of the first thanksgivings was celebrated to commemorate the terrible massacre of a Native American tribe- men, women and children.

 

We don't have Columbus Day here either, but I've read about how awful it is. The Oatmeal has a very nice comic about it, too!

 

Anyways, I work as an English Teacher at an English Course here (English being a foreign language) and, for some reason, they insist on celebrating Thanksgiving. I mean, I can understand us having Halloween parties, they're fun and children love it (heck, I love it too!) but celebrating Thanksgiving is like, I don't know, celebrating Veteran's Day! It's just NOT part of Brazilian history, it makes no sense! Argh.

 

And to make things worse, most children do not have a clue as to what Thanksgiving is, and it's not that easy to explain it when you're not American (or Canadian, for that matter).

 

This is what I think of when I think of American Thanksgiving:

 

[Aquamentis12]

Thanksgiving, and for that matter, I think Columbus Day are both valid. First off, let's start with Mr. C. The way I see it, he's in our history, and a pretty darned big part of it at that! Sure he was a "jerk" (sanitized term for this forum), but he DID discover the West. The new world and all that. While I agree with teaching people about him and his accomplishments. They should also teach more about the man who from what I've heard post-high school, Was a slaver, a ruthless (something) and basically a pretty arrogant and mean guy. So I agree with teaching about him. But not just the visionary, temper it with the truth as well. At least in the higher of the K-12 grades. Some of this stuff would not be good to tell little kids about, like kindergarteners and such. But as they get older, before college of course, teach 'em the truth too.

 

On to Turkey-Day! Definitely a legit holiday. That first Winter was so bad, and I've also since heard that one of the reasons it was, was because whether you did the work you were supposed to or not, you were owed an equal share of the crops. An argument could be made that this was communism. Or at least a form of it. Why work if you get to eat anyway? You know? So I've also heard that after that Winter, the survivors parceled out land to each family, and that was their food/crop supply to grow and build for the Winter, ensuring that those who wanted to eat, had to work to sustain themselves and their family. I forget what program I was watching when I learned this interesting angle. But it was something I hadn't learned in school. The Indians, certainly did a lot for the pilgrims that allowed them to survive. Otherwise they may have been wiped out completely in that Winter, instead of losing about half their community. It's odd how little we were taught in the public school system about the details of just what they did. I mean, I know planting certain crops, and how to teach or improve their ability to fish/hunt for food. But there really wasn't much info beyond that. That's unfortunately all I really recall at the moment.

[siniri]

I grew up in Virginia, and so I learned about several different historical thanksgivings -- none of which involved Pilgrims (they predated the Pilgrims' arrival). The first was a thanksgiving feast held at Jamestown after the first winter (during which many people starved, and others might have turned to cannibalism -- of other settlers, not of Native Americans), when a boat arrived from England with supplies. The second was held at Berkeley Plantation, and it was the first annual Thanksgiving celebration, to show thanks for the harvest. Agrarian societies the world over have celebrated the harvest with festivals of thanksgiving.

 

I know some people celebrate Thanksgiving mostly with excessive eating, but I've been to many different Thanksgiving celebrations (I haven't traveled to celebrate with my family for over a decade, so I've celebrated with various friends from different parts of the country, or a couple of times with a mix of American and international students), and at every one I've been to, the focus has been on counting one's blessings and really just taking a moment to appreciate all the good things in one's life: family, friends, health, security, etc.

 

So no, I don't think that's hypocritical. If you live in a society with property, you're living on land that was "taken" from hunter-gatherer people. The human race as a whole has largely transitioned from low-population-density hunter-gatherer societies to higher-density propertied types of societies. And invaders have forced out native hunter-gatherer and propertied peoples the world over, for millennia. I do think these larger societies have an obligation to respect the cultures and traditions of these smaller societies that have survived, and to work to correct any lasting injustices that remain due to history, as best as possible without disrupting society. I just don't think a day to give thanks for the good things in one's life is one of those injustices (as long as you're not usurping anyone's heritage to celebrate -- I've never seen it, but I've heard of some really bizarre "tributes" to Native American culture that are just insensitive and inaccurate).

[HoneyTediz]

Just as a disclaimer, I'm white so if I say something out of line, feel free to say something! ♥

 

 

But honestly? The entire concept behind Thanksgiving is just a flat out lie lol. The big feast did happen, but it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies.

We need to recognize that the Pilgrims put it on to lull the Native Americans into a false sense of security. The same night the feast happened,

we massacred a large number of the Native people who attended.

 

The only thing positive I see about Thanksgiving is the food. That's it. (What can I say? I love me some mashed potatoes and scalloped corn.)

[Naamah D.]

In my views Thanksgiving is becoming like Christmas. Instead of it being historical its more social and a family holiday. Same thing with Christmas. For me Christmas isn't about religion because I'm not religious. Its about getting presents and chilling with my family. Substitute getting presents with food and there's Thanksgiving.

 

I think holidays are straying from they're true meaning.

[eileen_kelli]

I work in a supermarket (in the USA), So every holiday I view through the cold corporate eyes of 'the man'. Profit margins, yay! The absurd amount of stuff that people buy, and how much they're willing to pay for it. Not to mention the crazy amount that no one buys and gets given to the food bank/pig farm/thrown away. I hate dealing with all the extra junk we have to stock.

 

It's crazy what society it turning the holidays into. X-mas music and decorations before halloween = people are going to get desensitized to the holiday cheer. Get sick of it before it's even December!

 

Though It's nice to have an excuse to meet up with friends and family....because we're not motivated to get together without a reason. hahahah.

[TheNeonHyena]

Ahhh, the dreaded Thanksgiving... My least favorite season. Every year around this time family members that do not speak to one another for the eleven months preceding it converge upon one unlucky household and pretend that we have any kind of interest in each other's lives. Frankly I ask to work every year because I find the whole thing disgusting and I'll gladly take time and a half holiday pay so someone else can go be with their family. Plus, if you're in America you can't mention the T word without bringing up its oh so wonderful companion, Black Friday. Shoppers love it, traditionalists and retail employees absolutely loathe it. That's the biggest hypocrisy to me... Sitting at a table one minute being "thankful" for all you have and then duking it out over discount bath towels (I have seen an elderly woman get into a fist fight over these... I wish I was kidding.) the next moment. I don't really celebrate it, but I usually get guilt tripped into either hosting dinner or helping cook. Plus, any chance I get to see my grandmother is a chance I take.

 

On a note about the hypocrisy of Thanksgiving in reference to the Native peoples of the USA, I live in the Cherokee nation in Oklahoma (no I've not got an ounce of native blood that I'm aware of, pure Scandinavian and European heritage here, I just live in their borders.) I can't speak of the rest of the Natives living in America but here they have it GOLDEN. Having a tribal card opens up a boatload of opportunities for them, everything from free housing to job preference to scholarships. Heck, I know a kid that gets paid a thousand dollars a month just to keep his gradepoint average above a 3.25. I'm sure there are a lot of people that still very much hold a grudge against white people, but most of them around here have pretty much moved on in life. They've got a good thing going making literal millions of dollars off dumb white people every year at their thousands of casinos dotting the landscape(and their turnpike) and here they actually distribute it out among the tribe pretty well. That in absolutely no way excuses all the horrible things their ancestors endured, but nearly all of them realize that the white people currently living and going about their day did not in fact subject them to any of it and should not be held accountable for the sins of people they never met. Most people around here, regardless of color, celebrate Gorge Yourself on Turkey and Pretend You Like Socializing With Your Family Day.

[Koakuma_Heaven]

I'm English and have never visited America so all my knowledge of Thanksgiving comes from American media, having not really researched much about the holiday myself please feel free to take my opinions with a pinch of salt.

 

Growing up I saw a lot of American children's/family shows and none of them ever really explained what thanksgiving was, it just seemed like a sort of trial-run Christmas with something about pilgrims. The first I ever knew what thanksgiving was actually 'about' was the scene in The Addams Family Values which prompted a sort of 'oooh, well that's weird' from child me.

 

I suppose the point i'm getting at is I don't necessarily think it's 'wrong' to celebrate a holiday about being thankful and togetherness etc. but it is wrong not to acknowledge the history of the celebration. I don't know exactly what American children are taught in schools but based on what I do know of the way the US teaches history I'm willing to bet it's highly sanitised if not entirely glossed over and that is wrong. A person isn't responsible for what their ancestors or the founders of their nation did but we do have a responsibility to be aware of it, 'those who do not remember the past..' and so on.

 

I want to finish by saying that I hope this doesn't come across as America-bashing, I have a lot of problems with the American education system and the extreme right-wing side of their media and politics, but it's a big country and most actual Americans I meet are nice people. Every country has something either disturbing or just downright weird that they celebrate (in England we burn Guy Fawkes in effigy every year and few people know anything about who or why we do it).

[twilight790]

I do celebrate Thanksgiving, but as is the case with most holidays in America, the original meaning has kind of been lost. Many think of Thanksgiving as a day to stuff their face with food and be with their family. Spending time with family is great, but this holiday could NOT be more American... in a bad way. lol

[Populifolia0Design]

I hate holidays in general because they celebrate very strange events in very strange ways. Most of the time, yes, whole families are involved in all of those celebrations, in an effort to brainwash the masses through family traditions that stay for generations and generations.

 

I find thanksgiving hypocritical amongst many other holidays.

[tk421beth]

Ahhh, the dreaded Thanksgiving... My least favorite season. Every year around this time family members that do not speak to one another for the eleven months preceding it converge upon one unlucky household and pretend that we have any kind of interest in each other's lives. Frankly I ask to work every year because I find the whole thing disgusting and I'll gladly take time and a half holiday pay so someone else can go be with their family. Plus, if you're in America you can't mention the T word without bringing up its oh so wonderful companion, Black Friday. Shoppers love it, traditionalists and retail employees absolutely loathe it. That's the biggest hypocrisy to me... Sitting at a table one minute being "thankful" for all you have and then duking it out over discount bath towels (I have seen an elderly woman get into a fist fight over these... I wish I was kidding.) the next moment. I don't really celebrate it, but I usually get guilt tripped into either hosting dinner or helping cook. Plus, any chance I get to see my grandmother is a chance I take. 

 

On a note about the hypocrisy of Thanksgiving in reference to the Native peoples of the USA, I live in the Cherokee nation in Oklahoma (no I've not got an ounce of native blood that I'm aware of, pure Scandinavian and European heritage here, I just live in their borders.) I can't speak of the rest of the Natives living in America but here they have it GOLDEN. Having a tribal card opens up a boatload of opportunities for them, everything from free housing to job preference to scholarships. Heck, I know a kid that gets paid a thousand dollars a month just to keep his gradepoint average above a 3.25. I'm sure there are a lot of people that still very much hold a grudge against white people, but most of them around here have pretty much moved on in life. They've got a good thing going making literal millions of dollars off dumb white people every year at their thousands of casinos dotting the landscape(and their turnpike) and here they actually distribute it out among the tribe pretty well. That in absolutely no way excuses all the horrible things their ancestors endured, but nearly all of them realize that the white people currently living and going about their day did not in fact subject them to any of it and should not be held accountable for the sins of people they never met. Most people around here, regardless of color, celebrate Gorge Yourself on Turkey and Pretend You Like Socializing With Your Family Day. 

Wow, I really liked what you said! I live in between the Hopi, Navajo and White Mountain Apache Tribes here in the White Mountains of Arizona. I have lived here for almost 18 years, and totally understand where you are coming from. Plus, I work in a County Office here (which is kinda tied w/the local Welfare Offices and the County Jail as well)...so I really, REALLY understand. :rolleyes_anim: I adore the elders, but the young kids are sometimes horrible.

 

I love Thanksgiving because that is when I visit my family in Southern California. The food is horrible (my sister is not a great cook), the appetizers are awesome (because we bring them  :laughingsmiley:  ...but we all really get along great, and it is wonderful to see my nieces and nephews play and talk together. It is a very relaxing time for us all. Thanksgiving with my family has been drama free since 2012! :woot:

[Guest misarella]

I celebrate Thanksgiving with my extended family each year, and I do believe that it is a valid holiday. Nowadays, most people don't know the origins of most of the U.S. (official and nonofficial) holidays, such as Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day. For example, most people celebrate thanksgiving nowadays with their special ones, and it's a day when I remember that I am lucky to be living the life I'm living and that I shouldn't take things for granted.

[MysteryAF]

I know there is probably some dark history behind Thanksgiving, but I always celebrated Thanksgiving as a way to spend time with family and be thankful for the things that we have. That is the most important part of Thanksgiving to me.

[jellysundae]

I shouldn't think there's a single holiday in existence that's still celebrated in the same way that it was when it first came into being, and I don't have a problem with that, it's the nature of the beast, things change. Just as people being totally unaware of the true meaning behind holidays is pretty normal (also, sadly, people knowing but not caring).

 

What I  DO have a problem with is how every holiday is so rampantly commercialised by the people looking to make a monster profit from it. But let's face it, I might just as well say that I have a problem with the sky being blue. :rolleyes_anim:

 

How someone celebrates (or doesn't) any holiday is entirely down to them. But the pressure to spend, spend, spend, particularly for Christmas of course, is crazy : /

[Heavyshell]

In my opinion it's an excuse to stuff my face (which is always welcome) and whatever originally happened happened so long ago that it's irrelevant. Nostalgia is comforting, but sometimes I feel like folks need to let go of the past and focus on the here and now. 

[Rae]

I think it's easy to say to "forget the past" when it didn't happen to your or your ancestors. Native Americans are STILL suffering at the hands of the government. That comment above mine is not that old. There is currently a huge pipeline that is about to displace an entire tribe of people. We have continually and systematically treated Natives awfully in this country. Furthermore, we should be thankful every day. If you want an excuse to "shove your face" pick a new day. You don't need Thanksgiving to do that.

 

I think it's an unnecessary holiday that is currently getting overrun with greed anyway due to Black Friday. 

[lakecat]

I'm Canadian and we celebrate Thankgsgiving in October. Ours is definitely about being thankful for what you have and more of a social holiday than a "historical" one. My mom's American, so we usually celebrate both, but they both take on this same form. I think that's what the holiday has really become in the States too. A social holiday. Images of pilgrims and stuff are still ingrained in the holiday, but that's not really what we celebrate now. It's more like I'm happy to live in this country, I'm happy I have family and friends with me, and I'm happy I have good food. 

Agreed. Here in the U.S. it is mostly a day (or long weekend) to get together and be with family. Frankly, I wish people would do less political analysis of American holidays and history and just be grateful they can live here and have a better life than their ancestors did, whoever they may be. Let's keep the Thanks in Thanksgiving.

[eloralestrange]

I think it is valid. 

I love being able to spend time with me or a dear friend's family, get to know them, see their traditions. Really quality time. And you start thinking about what you're thankful for. And pecan pie. And candied sweet potatoes. Oh, and I'm growing pumpkins this year so maybe we'll have some homemade pumpkin pie. 

I never heard of a native american caring about it, but that does sound like it makes sense. But I can't do anything about it, and I feel bad for their ancestors' loss, and I never would have taken their lands personally, so I think let's all just be happy and celebrate us coming together as a family. What's done is done. It would be impossible to take the holiday away at this point. 

If you're a kid, you'll learn about the history surrounding it, and the history will be extremely biased. That part is sad.