SuAP Acquired and Collateral Question

[Emily]

Hey everyone!

One of our generous members has recently donated a Super Attack Pea to the lending program, meaning we are now able to offer every avatar item for lending (with the exception of the Usukis because they have a tendency to clog up trades).

As you may remember, we were having quite a bit if trouble last year with higher value items being accidentally lost by borrowers, to the point where I ended up having to replace our Bony Grarrl Club 4 times within a few months. As such, I felt I had no choice but to up the collaterals required for both the Club and the Malevolent Sentient Poogle Plushie (TCG) to the market value. This obviously meant that less people were able to borrow, but the items could be quickly and easily replaced should something happen.

Because you guys are the ones we want to have access to the items, and since you all help fund the program through donations to the ALP shop,it seems only fair that the community should have a say in the collateral amounts. There are two main options being considered:

1. Keep the collateral amounts high, meaning less people are able to borrow, but the items can be easily replaced, so once you've saved up enough you can be sure they'll still be available to borrow.
2. Lower collateral amounts to under market value, meaning more people will be able to borrow, but if something happens to the items, we won't be able to replace them and they won't be available for lending any longer.

Along with the actual NP amount required, I think imposing a strict account age restriction of 2-3 years is reasonable, meaning your account has to be at least 2-3 years old to qualify for a lend (feel free to comment what you think a reasonable account age would be if you think it should be something different)

The poll will close two weeks from today (on July 19th).

**Edit: it was just pointed out to me that the new limit on auctions is now 100 mil, so it WOULD be possible to collect full collat for the pea. The poll options have been updated accordingly**

[granny63020]

Although I am not familair with the lending program I have read the message you just posted and if I understand this correctly The Super Attack Pea is worth 80 - 95 Million and belong to some member that is loaning it to your lending program. If you take collateral of 50 Million and it is not returned to the program what happens to the member that loaned it? How do they get reimbursed for the Pea? Also, how are you easily able to replace it if it doesn't get returned when the collateral is only 1/2 of the actual cost? I know this probably makes sense to everyone else but I don't understand it. I also don't know why you would want to borrow these items. Borrow for what reason? How long would they want to borrow these? Also, if you are going to lend the items to members maybe the account of the borrowing member should be 5 years at the least. This is just my uneducated opinion.   

[ranga_muffin]

I think collateral on the higher end and an account age of 2-3 years is a good idea. Yes it will be a bit restrictive for people (myself included), but these are hard to replace items, and it's pretty harsh to have had to replace them so frequently of late. I think a higher collateral might make people extra cautious when actually borrowing and using these items too. 

@Granny63020 these items are lending so that people are able to acquire avatars, by borrowing them they don't have to buy/sell. People borrow in a chain, so you have roughly ~24 hours with the item I think, before you send it on. Here's all the lending info: https://alp.thedailyneopets.com/

[Kute]

I dont want to bash the process because I've borrowed and I am thankful for the services of TDN, but I dont know if having an aged account is qualifying enough to let someone borrow?  Just letting an account sit around really isnt an achievement considering how many side / shell accounts just sit around. Perhaps avatar count should be taken into consideration? Personally I felt I was not even worthy to ask for SuAP until i was over 300 avvies to show I am serious. But thats just me because I would not personally trust someone who didn't show effort into their account, so why would I expect them to trust me with something so expensive, lol?  I think the account should show something other than age. 

[kayahtik]

I think it makes the most sense to ask for full collateral (or as much as you can get, given the auction limit). Lower collateral may mean that more people are eligible to borrow, but if the item gets lost and you don't have enough collateral to replace it, then no one gets to borrow. I was a frequent borrower from the ALP until I got all of the avatars, and I never felt like your requirements were unreasonable. You're still doing people a huge favor by lending to them, even if you ask full collateral. And, if they don't like the requirements, they can look for a lend elsewhere.

As for the account age suggestion, I agree with Kute. Personally, I don't think account age is that reliable of an indicator of someone's trustworthiness. And even if the person is trustworthy by any metric, accidents still happen. You never know if the item is going to be lost through a RE, get stuck in the TP, etc. So by all means, do everything you can to avoid losing the item. But I would also plan a contingency just in case. 

Whatever you decide, I'm glad you were able to replace your SuAP and all the other items. The ALP is a great resource, and the TDN community is very lucky to benefit from it. 

[Emily]

I mostly just wanted to see if the community felt like it was worth taking the risk of lending with lower collateral so more people could participate, or if everyone preferred the extra insurance that comes with the higher collateral, all other factors being equal. 

Yeah the account age thing is mostly to keep out the people who have to create new accounts every other week because they keep getting frozen. Surprisingly, I still get a bunch of requests from obvious shell/cheating accounts, so at least an age limit gives me reason to reject otherwise impressive (and impossibly young) accounts. Age really doesn't mean a ton because it really is easy to wander away and forget about your account for a few years. But at least an older account does show that when you're on the site, you follow rules.

Other factors do definitely influence my decision to lend to someone. I take a look around their account and take into account their avvie count, site events they've participated in, and the overall effort they've put into their account, and we do keep ALP tracking sheets of people who have borrowed and any problems we've had. The poll is more to settle the collateral issue , as ultimately, all lends are still approved at my discretion based on the account.

And if I didn't make it clear in the first post, the Pea is now the property of the ALP account. We don't process third party lends.

 

I'm glad there's a unanimous consensus so far! I honestly thought this would be a lot harder

[granny63020]

ranga_muffin

@Granny63020 these items are lending so that people are able to acquire avatars, by borrowing them they don't have to buy/sell. People borrow in a chain, so you have roughly ~24 hours with the item I think, before you send it on. Here's all the lending info: https://alp.thedailyneopets.com/

Well, thank you! I am reading through all the info now. Very interesting I must say. I wish I had read this earlier. Last week I recieved a Fountain Fairie dip and offered it on the pound forum. Had I known a Pink Krawk was needed I could have easily given that to you. Should I get another one I will contact the Lending group and ask if it is still needed or for that matter if any pet is needed.

[Winter]

This is amazing! I personally agree with everything others have said, and am glad other things e.g. site events participated in, avatar count, etc. are taken into account. I also agree with full collateral being asked for, as at least you have a contingency plan in place as some people can either be careless or just plain unlucky (e.g. random events). 

[emily_speck_15]

I would suggest setting a higher collateral also.  I would also suggest maybe having a age not just for the neopets account but possibly on tdn account as well as the existing post count on tdn.

[jellysundae]

I feel it's tough to know when to stop with these measures. Part of me likes the idea of people needing to be active on TDN, but part of me feels that's a bit punitive. If I remember rightly what @deboratibi told me, many of the people who use the ALP aren't TDN members so it seems unfair, and quite possibly counter-productive, to make them sign up and become active on here.

Though having said that, I've just read the pet lending rules and they DO stipulate that someone needs to be a TDN member so I dunno, lol.

I've just seen Emily's edit to the first post, saying the auction limit is 100mill now, so I'm all for full collateral being asked for. She's already said about the checks she makes on a person's avatars and trophies, I'm not sure what else you can do?

 

 

[Emily]

Added the pea to the available items! Collateral will be 85 mil. Thanks for everyone's input! 

[furuzon]

The SuAP is worth 150mil on the TP now!

Will be a looong time before I can make collat (currently at 12mil....not even a 10th!)