The Fireside (All teams welcome)

[midnight_spell360]

Hi everyone! Since I never hear from other KI players on the Support Thread I made for Pirates, I thought I say hello and ask my Ranking question here. Btw, congratulations to those of you who have already made it to All-Star, that's amazing.

So, I had been out of town (Chicago) and I am just trying desperately to catch up the 4-6 days I couldn't play hardly at all. I just squeaked into Rank 9 today at 11:59 pm NST time and my question is, can I make it to All-Star? Any advice and scheduling how to do this? Thanks!  

[Nielo]

1 hour ago, midnight_spell360 said:

Hi everyone! Since I never hear from other KI players on the Support Thread I made for Pirates, I thought I say hello and ask my Ranking question here. Btw, congratulations to those of you who have already made it to All-Star, that's amazing.

So, I had been out of town (Chicago) and I am just trying desperately to catch up the 4-6 days I couldn't play hardly at all. I just squeaked into Rank 9 today at 11:59 pm NST time and my question is, can I make it to All-Star? Any advice and scheduling how to do this? Thanks!  

You can use this petpage to calculate how many games you still need to play to reach All-Star. Today's a bye-day though, meaning that you can't rank up (unfortunately), so you'll have to take that into account when figuring out how many games you need to play each day to reach All-Star.

[jellysundae]

People on the boards seemed to think Faerieland's got the ACG this year, and certainly SOME of their scores seem to indicate that, but not all of them, all a bit inconsistent. So who knows what's actually going on!

[Nielo]

57 minutes ago, jellysundae said:

People on the boards seemed to think Faerieland's got the ACG this year, and certainly SOME of their scores seem to indicate that, but not all of them, all a bit inconsistent. So who knows what's actually going on!

Perhaps the ACG is smaller than it's been in previous years. Faerieland is the only land getting scores over 8, which is usually a sign an ACG is involved. But since they're not even in first place, the ACG definitely seems to have less influence compared to previous years. People seem to think Meridell as an ASG, but I personally think TM (which I'm on) has one as well, since we don't usually do this well. I'd love to think we've done this on our own, but the only other time we did alright, we came in 5th with the help of an ASG. I do think the Cup is definitely more interesting this year, as the scores seem closer together so far.

[jellysundae]

I wonder . . . if the ACGs are more wide-spread this year?

OR, now here's a thought . . .

Now firstly, I'm making an assumption here, one that the average person who's likely to cheat is probably going to be younger. So I'm wondering if as long time players get older, whether the need to cheat loses its appeal and more are playing properly, and as Neo doesn't have the draw it used to in its peak popularity, there's just not as many new cheaters coming in to fill the old shoes?

And/or whether, again because the site isn't massively popular like it once was, it's not the huge magnet for cheaters that it most definitely would have been previously. So former cheaters are reforming, and cheating on Neo has become more of a niche thing these days.

[Nielo]

@jellysundae That's an interesting theory! I definitely think (and hope) you might be on to something.

[midnight_spell360]

@Nielo Thanks, that was helpful. It estimated that I will need to play 510 YYB games which became 40 games per day IF we have 13 more days and 79 of SLSL, 471 games of MSN & SOSD each all per day, but I am not so sure we will have 13 more days.

But, I do appreciate that at least I got an answer. Thanks!   

[rntracy1]

30 minutes ago, midnight_spell360 said:

@Nielo Thanks, that was helpful. It estimated that I will need to play 510 YYB games which became 40 games per day IF we have 13 more days and 79 of SLSL, 471 games of MSN & SOSD each all per day, but I am not so sure we will have 13 more days.

But, I do appreciate that at least I got an answer. Thanks!   

Unfortunately if you NEED 471 games of SoSD and MSN per day, you will not be able to do it.  Those games are capped at 401 per day.  However, if you only need 40 games of YYB, that one is capped at 46.  If play the extra 6 per day, that MIGHT be enough to carry you.  10 games of YYB equals 100 games of SoSD/MSN.  I have a terrible headache so you will need to do the math.  But 6 extra YYB games per day is 78 games over 13 days (if we actually have 13 full days).  Those 78 extra games are equal to about 780 games of SoSD OR MSN.  You needed 471 of EACH of them.  The difference of 70 games over the cap for 13 days is 910 which is 1820 for Both games, so you would still be short.  You can play 86 games of Slushie Slinger.  So you can make some up there too.  It might be CLOSE, very close.  Good luck.  Keep plugging away.  There's always next year.  The good thing is, you can at least get a GOLD trophy!

4 hours ago, Nielo said:

Perhaps the ACG is smaller than it's been in previous years. Faerieland is the only land getting scores over 8, which is usually a sign an ACG is involved. But since they're not even in first place, the ACG definitely seems to have less influence compared to previous years. People seem to think Meridell as an ASG, but I personally think TM (which I'm on) has one as well, since we don't usually do this well. I'd love to think we've done this on our own, but the only other time we did alright, we came in 5th with the help of an ASG. I do think the Cup is definitely more interesting this year, as the scores seem closer together so far.

I am also on TM and I am also AS rank.  This is my 2nd year reaching that rank.  This year I reached it half way through the cup, last year I reached on the last day.  For me, personally, I felt it was quite easy to do.  I don't know if the ASG or any part of them are on TM as I don't pay attention to what teams those groups are joining.  Personally, I have no interest in joining up with the ASG.  I don't want to switch teams every year (unless I was switching with @Scoobert_Doo as we join the same team).  Whether our faith in each other is justified or not (lol- I'm totally joking of course) we have that trust in each other for all of the team/partner games to get the scores needed to achieve .  

[Nielo]

2 hours ago, rntracy1 said:

I am also on TM and I am also AS rank.  This is my 2nd year reaching that rank.  This year I reached it half way through the cup, last year I reached on the last day.  For me, personally, I felt it was quite easy to do.  I don't know if the ASG or any part of them are on TM as I don't pay attention to what teams those groups are joining.  Personally, I have no interest in joining up with the ASG.  I don't want to switch teams every year (unless I was switching with @Scoobert_Doo as we join the same team).  Whether our faith in each other is justified or not (lol- I'm totally joking of course) we have that trust in each other for all of the team/partner games to get the scores needed to achieve .  

I know, and I'm impressed you made All-Star, but I only ever made All-Star once, back when I was unemployed, and even then it felt like it took way too much time and effort. I have honestly no idea how I could make All-Star now (especially not this early!) and still have time for all the other things I need (and want) to do in a day.

Having never played in a Cup that wasn't dominated & won by cheaters, with the teams with ASGs filling out the rest of the podium, I happen to have very little faith in the integrity of the Cup, and therefore also don't really care where my team ends. I like TM, and if we're really this high up on the list due to only honest players, and not even an ASG (I know they're honest players too, I just don't like the imbalance they add to the tournament - I'm guessing they're partly there to counter the cheaters, but it just makes the other teams even more powerless), then that's great! I've just never seen TM do this well, and with the Cup's less than stellar history of having honest teams/teams without any ASGs win... Well.

I'd love to see an honest Cup one day, and whenever that happens, I'd love to see TM make the podium. But while cheaters are still active during the Cup, "winning" doesn't mean much to me. None of this means, however, that I'm any less proud of, or impressed by, people who make All-Star (or higher)! I think those individual achievements are awesome. It also doesn't mean I'm going play any less.

[DragonPhoenix]

Greetings! I am a long-time neopets player but very new to TDN (actually discovered you guys during the drag-out wraith plot and LOVE it here, you all are lovely!!) and I was surfing AC threads today as it's an off day. Can I reveal my ignorance and ask questions here? This is the first year I have devoted any serious interest in AC, I've joined Faerieland for years as I love Faerie stuff but this is the first year I've had the time and energy to play seriously. Can you tell me what  ACG and ASG stand for from above? I have my guesses but I'm feeling very noob as I delve into the world of serious AC lol

[jellysundae]

14 hours ago, DragonPhoenix said:

Can you tell me what  ACG and ASG stand for from above? I have my guesses but I'm feeling very noob as I delve into the world of serious AC lol

Hello! o/

What are your guesses?

I'm sat here now, trying to think of some witty examples, and failing miserably!

Moving swiftly on!

They stand for All Cheater/All Star Group. Probably pretty much what you'd figured?

[DragonPhoenix]

Thanks @jellysundae unfortunately I couldn't come up with anything witty either which is why I was guessing the true meaning was much more mundane! The ASG actually I figured meant All Star something but I guess until I read some more threads last night I wasn't aware of what a big deal/history the AC has with cheating. Thats sad to me... I guess I just don't understand what's the point? I mean I know some people are super competitive by nature, and i understand the idea of higher scores/more prizes/ more resale value in unique items that may be available from the prize shop, but is there any bigger picture I'm missing? It's all just a game still. It's *in theory* all supposed to be about fun and community. Is there a reason that AC specifically has such a sordid history of cheating issues as compared with other events on the site? 

 

[jellysundae]

13 minutes ago, DragonPhoenix said:

Is there a reason that AC specifically has such a sordid history of cheating issues as compared with other events on the site? 

Hmm! I suppose it's because it's teams, while the other events are individual things. People probably DO cheat for the other events - if someone's going to bother to cheat they probably cheat at everything - but the team aspect makes it a more public thing?

[Nielo]

I agree with @jellysundae, and I also think some people just get a kick out of cheating, feeling like they're "beating the system", and seeing how much it annoys/frustrates/upsets others. Some people are just really pathetic.

[Kute]

I just want to know if you guys thing meridell is ACG? I just randomly picked them. And i just happened to randomly pick Kiko lake the year they cheated (which i didnt know about) I'm beside myself that meridell is in 1st considering NO ONE said they were picking them and I didnt see any meridell support boards???? 

[Nielo]

12 minutes ago, Kute said:

I just want to know if you guys thing meridell is ACG? I just randomly picked them. And i just happened to randomly pick Kiko lake the year they cheated (which i didnt know about) I'm beside myself that meridell is in 1st considering NO ONE said they were picking them and I didnt see any meridell support boards???? 

I don't think Meridell has the "help" of an ACG. If you look at the schedule/result page, and choose 'show all' (for the 'first round matches'), you'll notice Faerieland has been getting scores over 10. Any score over 8 is usually considered suspicious (at least, that's what I've gathered from the neoboards), so it's likely Faerieland is the one stuck with the ACG this year. Meridell (and Terror Mountain) might have an ASG though, but it's harder to tell which teams they've joined.

Do you mean on TDN? Because I think we're not quite representative for neo's population. Only a handful of us have been posting about the AC at all. But I think there are quite a few Meridell support boards on the neoboards: all the ones with Meridell's blue/red/gold shield are Meridell related boards.

[Kute]

5 minutes ago, Nielo said:

I don't think Meridell has the "help" of an ACG. If you look at the schedule/result page, and choose 'show all' (for the 'first round matches'), you'll notice Faerieland has been getting scores over 10. Any score over 8 is usually considered suspicious (at least, that's what I've gathered from the neoboards), so it's likely Faerieland is the one stuck with the ACG this year. Meridell (and Terror Mountain) might have an ASG though, but it's harder to tell which teams they've joined.

Do you mean on TDN? Because I think we're not quite representative for neo's population. Only a handful of us have been posting about the AC at all. But I think there are quite a few Meridell support boards on the neoboards: all the ones with Meridell's blue/red/gold shield are Meridell related boards.

Oh okay I was not aware there were some general rules for suspicion. Good to know. Thank you.  Yea I just skimmed the boards like once ever before the matches. Mustve been a day/hour meridell support was not active at the time i checked.  Thank you for changing my feelings about this   I was feeling kind of embarrassed for picking them.  

[Nielo]

9 minutes ago, Kute said:

Oh okay I was not aware there were some general rules for suspicion. Good to know. Thank you.  Yea I just skimmed the boards like once ever before the matches. Mustve been a day/hour meridell support was not active at the time i checked.  Thank you for changing my feelings about this   I was feeling kind of embarrassed for picking them.  

Even if they did have an ACG, there'd be nothing to be embarrassed about; the cheaters are the ones that should be embarrassed. No team likes having the cheater group, but they all get stuck with them at some point, it seems (maybe even more than once). And it's definitely possible to accidentally pick the cheating(/winning) team 2 years in a row: my mom has 2 first place throphies, AC XI and AC XII, and she always randomly picks a team. XD

[Rayd1978]

My first year really playing, picked Faerieland because the fey amuse me.    As happy as I've been to watch the team rise in ranks, I'm certainly not happy to think it might be because of improper means.
But I really dropped by to ponder the AI system.   Mostly when I've played, victory is pretty academic, not a lot of effort needed.  But today, playing topped ranked Meridell, I find I need to work a lot harder to keep my scores up.   Part of which is bad luck and every other ball seems to be Darigan.   But the Meridell team seems to play a lot harder and smarter than most of the teams I've faced.   There something to that in the programming, or just perception?

[CylonPirate]

I'm pretty sure Meridell is doing well because along with their regular support they have SOTAC this year. 

[Nielo]

21 hours ago, Rayd1978 said:

My first year really playing, picked Faerieland because the fey amuse me.    As happy as I've been to watch the team rise in ranks, I'm certainly not happy to think it might be because of improper means.
But I really dropped by to ponder the AI system.   Mostly when I've played, victory is pretty academic, not a lot of effort needed.  But today, playing topped ranked Meridell, I find I need to work a lot harder to keep my scores up.   Part of which is bad luck and every other ball seems to be Darigan.   But the Meridell team seems to play a lot harder and smarter than most of the teams I've faced.   There something to that in the programming, or just perception?

I've never been able to figure out if it's intentional or not, but some teams (can't remember which ones right now) definitely give me more trouble than others.

@CylonPirate I just saw someone with a Meridell/SOTAC siggy at the neoboards, so yeah, that definitely explains their scores. (Still not sure about TM though. Last time we had an ASG (which is the year TM came in 5th), I read about it on the boards without having to search for it, but I haven't found anything about it this year yet.)

[Rayd1978]

I'm seeing a new captcha upon submitting points.  I'm guessing cheating got to a point where something needed to be done, and this is part of the effort.   Or maybe it was a scheduled update and the timing is coincidence?   Admit I tend to just scroll over security information and hit 'I agree'.

[jellysundae]

15 hours ago, Rayd1978 said:

I'm seeing a new captcha upon submitting points.  I'm guessing cheating got to a point where something needed to be done, and this is part of the effort.   Or maybe it was a scheduled update and the timing is coincidence?   Admit I tend to just scroll over security information and hit 'I agree'.

Is this for yyb? I rather like this idea if it is an attempt the quell cheating, as it seems like a pretty sensible one.

Bearing in mind that I have no personal experience of it, hence my ability to be ambivalent >_<

[Rayd1978]

Yes, for Yooyuball is where I noticed it, though think was also for Make Some Noise.   Likely is for all games, as I assume uses the same security program.

[Nielo]

It was most likely done in an effort to stop the cheating. I thought the reCaptchas had only been added to Slushie Slinger and MSN, @Rayd1978 I hadn't noticed they'd done it for Yooyuball as well, they must've added that one later, JellyNeo doesn't mention it yet either. I'm glad they're doing something, although it would've been nice if they'd just done this from the start; it's not as if the cheating can still come as a surprise at this point. I've only had to select pictures once, the other times the score just sent and the game refreshed. It's nice that they list how many of each game you've played that day. I'm not sure how often I'd still play SOSD if they add them there as well though. Then again, if this stops the cheaters, I'd be willing to put up with it and put more effort into playing.