Got a warning and I believe I should not have

[keithp]

I made a suggestion for a sacred kau to be made, based off cows in India.

 

I got in trouble by TNT saying it was a religious discussion. However, this alone is not detailed enough what I did wrong and thus I should not have gotten punished.

 

Neopets advertises religion daily.

 

Christmas is a color and advent calender, not everyone believes in Christ, let alone celebrates christmas, there is hannukkah and kwanza too, each celebrated in its own way. So right there they are advetising religion. Dont you think people find that offensive you claim a prize under a christmas tree when mabye they dont believe in it, or dont want there kids to be a part of something like that if its against there beliefs.

 

Then you got halloween and ghost brush. Halloween is like day of the dead, spirits come alive, and ghost is something that died and and comes back to life. What about people who believe ghosts are an insult to their religion or believe in witchcraft and that its evil or that reincarnation is non-existant, cant they say neopets is questioning other peoples beliefs?

 

Also when TNT takes a break for US holidays and no support on those days (like thanksgiving). Neopets is open to users arounf the world, nobody except the US celebrates Thanksgiving so when TNT closes support for those days dont you think everyone else thinks thats not fair.

 

Not to mention, how does Neopets not know I am not from india or of indian descent or Hindu, and by punishing me for suggesting something I believe in and is part of my life, I mean how disrepectful do you think I am feeling than!

 

You may think this is funny but really not being able to suggest ideas is crazy, they dont have to use them, but dont punish people for suggestions they think are wrong but others might not, its an international website and so they should be understanding of different religions and cultures.

[Anxious Zombie]

Actually Canada celebrates Thanksgiving too ._. just on a different date, and Christmas has evolved to a consumers holiday, with nothing to do with religion any more. But I get your point, and I hope you feel just a little better having gotten that all off your chest.

[karmacow]

Typical TNT. I honestly don't think there are a lot of people who are offended by the mention of something religious or religious(ish) activities. I'm not a big fan of christmas or religion, but I still think the advent calendar is great, because I like free stuff and surprises :P I think a lot of people feel the same way. Although I can imagine non-christian religious people feeling overlooked, because TNT greatly favours christian holidays, regardless of how secular they have become.

[hrtbrk]

cant they say neopets is questioning other peoples beliefs?

No they can't, at least not on Neopets, because talking about it against the rules.

You see what they did there and why they don't allow you to talk about religion/religious situations?

 

TNT/Neopets is very understanding and accepting of other cultures/religions imo. One example is the Royal Paint Brush, a respected item that welcomes all different types of cultures and religions.

 

These things ARE on Neopets, you just cannot talk about them because how can TNT draw the line when things get heated? They can't.

 

Halloween is like day of the dead

Halloween is absolutely NOTHING like Day of the Dead and I'm sure that statement is offensive to a lot of people. :(

 

Which I guess supports TNTs rule even further...

[icedragonair]

I kinda see your point, but TNT's approach to such problems is: "in order to prevent discussions like this from turning in to a [removed] fight (excuse my french), ban them altogether"

I don't think they're wrong in this particular regard though. Christmas has become de-religionized just about everywhere, to the point that in some places it isn't even remotely associated with religion.

 

But imagine we get a sacred kau, not only does this open the way for religious discussion but now people will start saying its unfair and that they want a Jesus gellert or Moses lupe or whatever. Or worse, start getting all "this offends my faith".

 

You see, christmas as a color refers to the season, rather than, say, christian saints. Most of the things you mentioned that TNT has running have nothing to do with religion, even in undertone. Halloween is not religious in any nature and never was. As for thanks giving, in Canada and the US there are national holidays where people are legally allowed not to work (though I don't know if thanksgiving is one of those in the US) hence it would be illegal for TNT to force people to work on these days.

 

Its not that I don't see what you mean, but people tend to be VERY sensitive about religion, and, in my experience, even such innocent seeming suggestions tend to rile someone up, and then thighs tend to get nasty regardless.

People are just over sensitive about the topic, that's just how it is, its easier to just stay away from it.

They are not so much punishing you for suggesting something that they don't agree with, rather they don't want you to post things that others are almost certain not to agree with, and having to sort out the mess afterwards.

 

This post has been edited by a member of staff (Neomysterion) because of a violation of the forum rules.

Please don't swear, censored or not. There are younger children who go on this site.

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[Rebecca~]

I can easily see that a suggestion for a paintbrush based off something that is religiously important to a lot of people as being kind of offensive to them. Christmas in many parts of the world has almost nothing to do with Christianity anymore, and Christmas on Neopets is more like a celebration of Yule, or of the Winter Solstice. Halloween, as snwflk says, is absolutely NOTHING like Day of the Dead. All of the 'holidays' on Neopets are without religious meaning- Easter gets turned into a Negg festival (if I'm remembering dates right)- no crucifixes or resurrections mentioned.

 

Neopets staff members take holidays on American holidays because, surprise, they're stationed in the US. If they work on stat holidays, they have to pay their employees more (time and a half, for most companies). So they keep enough people working to deal with moderation issues, and the rest get the day off.

 

And by your saying, "Not to mention, how does Neopets not know I am not from india or of indian descent or Hindu, and by punishing me for suggesting something I believe in and is part of my life, I mean how disrepectful do you think I am feeling than!", it's obvious you're not Hindu. I would love to see an someone that does practice Hinduism, and see how they weigh in on this. Somehow, I don't think they'd be on your side. In my experience, people generally don't want anything they hold sacred to be made light of in a game.

[Lydia Trebond]

Halloween is also at the same time as the Celtic festival of Samhain, a harvest festival. It was the final harvest of the year and right before winter. In modern practices, pagans have begun to incorporate recognition of the death part of the cycle of life and death.

 

IN REALITY however, halloween is a consumer holiday. People buy costumes and candy and party. There is nothing sacred about it! Day of the Dead AND Samhain are both sacred to those who observe the holidays. Just because they occur on the same day doesn't mean that they have anything to do with one another.

[The Bandit]

Halloween is not religious in any nature and never was.

 

Um... I'm afraid that's not remotely right! From Wikipedia:

 

Halloween or Hallowe'en (a contraction of "All Hallows' Evening"), also known as All Hallows' Eve,is a yearly celebration observed in a number of countries on October 31, the eve of the WesternChristian feast of All Hallows (or All Saints).

 

Okay, it might not be religious to a lot of people nowadays, but it's origins definitely were.

 

But that's kind of irrelevant to this discussion. Rebecca hit the nail on the head here. Would a practising Hindu want a Sacred Kau on Neopets? I very much doubt it - in fact they'd most probably find that idea very offensive. I might, if someone suggested there should be a Jesus Babaa (because he's the Lamb of God...)

[Rotsuoy]

Anything about culture can become just as heated as religion. Just look at how a discussion about holidays turned out:

 

 

Halloween is also at the same time as the Celtic festival of Samhain, a harvest festival. It was the final harvest of the year and right before winter. In modern practices, pagans have begun to incorporate recognition of the death part of the cycle of life and death.

 

This is highly inaccurate, as Samhain (pronounced saw-win) has little to do with All Saints Day, which is what All Hallows Eve, or Halloween, really is. I personally take offense to that remark.

 

Elbandito999 said it great here:

Um... I'm afraid that's not remotely right! From Wikipedia:

 

Halloween or Hallowe'en (a contraction of "All Hallows' Evening"), also known as All Hallows' Eve,is a yearly celebration observed in a number of countries on October 31, the eve of the WesternChristian feast of All Hallows (or All Saints).

 

 

 

 

IN REALITY however, halloween is a consumer holiday. People buy costumes and candy and party. There is nothing sacred about it! Day of the Dead AND Samhain are both sacred to those who observe the holidays. Just because they occur on the same day doesn't mean that they have anything to do with one another.

 

Also another remark I take offense to, as a lot of my family and friends make very few purchases on Halloween, making all of their treats and costumes at home, by hand, because it fills them with more spirit, besides the fact that we are all not very well off.

 

We've actually taken accustom to calling Spirit's Day, as we combine many of the customs of All Hallows Eve and Samhain.

 

 

Okay, it might not be religious to a lot of people nowadays, but it's origins definitely were.

 

I actually know a practicing Chatholic who does celebrate a sort of All Saint's Day. What it's all about I don't really know, I just know she and her family get together and eat and spend time together.

 

 

But that's kind of irrelevant to this discussion. Rebecca hit the nail on the head here. Would a practising Hindu want a Sacred Kau on Neopets? I very much doubt it - in fact they'd most probably find that idea very offensive. I would, if someone suggested there should be a Jesus Babaa (because he's the Lamb of God...)

 

It's just because most people don't know enough about other religions to not offend someone. Not saying OP meant to offend anyone or that OP is ignorant (though I kind of am modestly and indirectly, hopefully).

 

However, let me turn this around, (kind of playing the devil's advocate to spur the conversation) and allow you guys to think about this a different way. Hinduism isn't a religion. It's a lifestyle. Therefor, decorating a Kau in a symbolic manor as to represent Hinduism as a cultural expression would be quite an interesting and remarkable thing to see. I honestly believe a lot of the symbolism and design would be taken from the sacred cow, however.

[Nimphal]

I am not quite sure what you expected them to do. Neopets is situated in the US and although it has an international userbase, it does sometimes cater mostly to US citizens. It is then normal for them to re-create events from US life on the website. Surely you can't expect them to cater to all the different countries and cultures - they would have a celebration day every day of the year. But if they do make a sacred Kau they would be opening themselves up for even more criticism, because people might go 'But wait, why isn't there a something something as well?' and at some point things will spiral out of control. So they are choosing the lesser evil there by simply not budging on the subject.

As for your warning, I see why you might find it unfair, but TNT were right, religion is a no-no. Christmas, Halloween and Easter have lost a lot of their religious conotations for many people. I am not Christian, most members of my family aren't, but we celebrate them (well, not Halloween, but that's due to culture). They are both times when you get with your loved ones and spend time together, for us.

[Xepha]

If you had made a suggestion via a ticket, rather than opening this kind of discussion on the Neoboards, it would not have been the same and you would only have been turned down and not warned.

[The_Warblers]

Well, in my opinion, Christmas, Halloween, .... are becoming holidays, traditions, culture and no longer bearing merely spiritual purpose. Beside, neopets is in the US anyway.

 

And your topic is clearly related to religions. There are a bunch of other topics to talk about on Neoboards. If you really want to hear other opinions on religions, just go to religious or other forums to ask.

 

I don't think you should complain to the TDN or repeat this. Well, who wants a ban right? :D

[Lydia Trebond]

Anything about culture can become just as heated as religion. Just look at how a discussion about holidays turned out:

 

 

 

 

This is highly inaccurate, as Samhain (pronounced saw-win) has little to do with All Saints Day, which is what All Hallows Eve, or Halloween, really is. I personally take offense to that remark.

 

How is that inaccurate? I said they were around the same time. Please read what I said first. I also know how to pronounce it.

 

 

Also another remark I take offense to, as a lot of my family and friends make very few purchases on Halloween, making all of their treats and costumes at home, by hand, because it fills them with more spirit, besides the fact that we are all not very well off.

 

We've actually taken accustom to calling Spirit's Day, as we combine many of the customs of All Hallows Eve and Samhain.

Just because you don't celebrate it by buying a ton of stuff doesn't mean a majority of Americans do celebrate it like that. I don't buy stuff, I spend the day preparing for religious celebrations for the most part.

[poptart123]

As far as religion goes, I myself am a Secular Humanist. Yet I do not find any religion or religion based items, topics, categories, events that Neopets (or anyone or anywhere else for that matter) has offensive. I can not agree with your rant for several reasons. However, I do respect your opinions and your right to them.

 

Personally, it sounds like you are thinking of Neopets as a person rather than a business. If I walked into a store and saw a bunch of Christmas stuff I am not going to go up to the manager and tell him I do not believe in a god therefore he shouldn't have Christmas stuff for sale. From the managers stand point he would see me as one consumer. However most of his customer base purchases those Christmas items during this season than not. It would be a poor business decision to stop selling those items just because of one person. It is supply and demand. It is business. It is economics. Not political and not religious. Just business. So if you don't agree with or like them, don't participate and don't buy them. Again, just business.

 

Also I agree with Neopets and their zero tolerance policy (although most of the time I am very anti zero tolerance policies in other aspects of life because they do more harm than good in most instances but that is a whole other topic in and of itself...but this one gets a thumbs up from me) because without it, it would open up a whole can worms that would just be a nightmare. Some of the most heated debates stem from religion based ones. Which then can lead into other topics like politics which can lead to other topics and more heated arguments. All things that have no place being discussed on Neopets. It is a game. If you didn't get a warning, several people who knew you didn't could then use it to their advantage in the future if they got a warning and say "well keithp didn't get a warning why should I?" Neopets would then have to cave, revoke the warning, and eventually in a series of similar events could easily end up having to revoke the whole rule and opening that can of worms I previously mentioned.

 

In summary, yes getting a warning sucks. Yes you are entitled to your thoughts and opinions. Yes, they have religious based consumer goods and events. However you don't need to buy them and you don't need to participate. And at the end of the day, understand why you got the warning and accept it and move on. It's business. It's a game. Have fun.

[Rebecca~]

However, let me turn this around, (kind of playing the devil's advocate to spur the conversation) and allow you guys to think about this a different way. Hinduism isn't a religion. It's a lifestyle. Therefor, decorating a Kau in a symbolic manor as to represent Hinduism as a cultural expression would be quite an interesting and remarkable thing to see. I honestly believe a lot of the symbolism and design would be taken from the sacred cow, however.

I think that a lot of people that practice Hinduism would not appreciate your attempt at being the devil's advocate. Hinduism IS a religion, not a lifestyle. I am a vegetarian- for me, this is a part of my lifestyle. It is a choice that is not based on religious beliefs or dogma. The beliefs held by Hindus are based on dogma- therefore it is a religion.

I don't really get what point you were trying to make anyway?

[Bodhi]

I would looove to have a sacred Kau, Elephante and Mynci! They already have the likes of Anubis, Horus, Khnum - so why not Ganesh, Hanuman and the sacred cow?

I do understand where they are coming from with religion not being allowed on the boards, though. It does cause serious issues.

[Angeló]

TNT do celebrate religious occasions ... but on a very small scale ...

 

they handed out a Menorah in the advent calendar but they called it Seasonal Candelabra ...

 

and they celebrate St Patrick's and St David's Days (or is it St George?) ... it was a tradition started by Adam and Donna

[Emily]

TNT do celebrate religious occasions ... but on a very small scale ...

 

they handed out a Menorah in the advent calendar but they called it Seasonal Candelabra ...

 

and they celebrate St Patrick's and St David's Days (or is it St George?) ... it was a tradition started by Adam and Donna

 

There's a difference between holiday-themed items and the iconography of the religions the holidays come from. A menorah or a Christmas tree,for example, (at least from my point of view) have much less potential to be offensive than say, a revered religious icon, whether it be a sacred animal, or person. I think this is largely due to the fact that, as we've seen, "religious symbols" or items affiliated with different religions are so dynamic and so ambiguous. Christmas trees, for example are a Germanic tradition, with origins back in ancient Chinese and Egyptian cultures before "Christmas" was ever heard of. What we perceive as religious symbols today have evolved and changed over time, and can mean different things to different people.

 

Not trying to diminish the relevance or meaning of either, but if you wanted to be really black and white, you could say that having a Sacred Kau wouldn't be that far off from having, say, a Jesus-character pet. Imagine the uproar that would cause?

[The Bandit]

I would looove to have a sacred Kau, Elephante and Mynci! They already have the likes of Anubis, Horus, Khnum - so why not Ganesh, Hanuman and the sacred cow?

 

The obvious difference here is that Hinduism is a religion still practised by millions of people, whereas the ancient Egyptian religion doesn't have any followers nowadays at all, as far as I'm aware...

[Finn the Human]

I made a suggestion for a sacred kau to be made, based off cows in India.

 

I got in trouble by TNT saying it was a religious discussion. However, this alone is not detailed enough what I did wrong and thus I should not have gotten punished.

 

Neopets advertises religion daily.

 

Christmas is a color and advent calender, not everyone believes in Christ, let alone celebrates christmas, there is hannukkah and kwanza too, each celebrated in its own way. So right there they are advetising religion. Dont you think people find that offensive you claim a prize under a christmas tree when mabye they dont believe in it, or dont want there kids to be a part of something like that if its against there beliefs.

 

Then you got halloween and ghost brush. Halloween is like day of the dead, spirits come alive, and ghost is something that died and and comes back to life. What about people who believe ghosts are an insult to their religion or believe in witchcraft and that its evil or that reincarnation is non-existant, cant they say neopets is questioning other peoples beliefs?

 

Also when TNT takes a break for US holidays and no support on those days (like thanksgiving). Neopets is open to users arounf the world, nobody except the US celebrates Thanksgiving so when TNT closes support for those days dont you think everyone else thinks thats not fair.

 

Not to mention, how does Neopets not know I am not from india or of indian descent or Hindu, and by punishing me for suggesting something I believe in and is part of my life, I mean how disrepectful do you think I am feeling than!

 

You may think this is funny but really not being able to suggest ideas is crazy, they dont have to use them, but dont punish people for suggestions they think are wrong but others might not, its an international website and so they should be understanding of different religions and cultures.

Well I celebrate Christmas and many holidays. From what I know many of my non-Christian friends celebrate it too. I am part Christian so I also celebrate other holidays. And the Halloween part, that is offensive because people from many cultures celebrate it. I am part Hindu so I understand your frustration but you really can't blame them. They don't want to start a conflict.

[Rotsuoy]

How is that inaccurate? I said they were around the same time. Please read what I said first. I also know how to pronounce it.

WHOA. Chill. I wasn't attacking you. You've got it all wrong to react like that. Elbandito999 made the same mistake. I think it's because I was really tired last night and the font against the white background made my eyes read the words wrong. Also, I was writing that for everyone who didn't know how to pronounce it who might have been reading this, whether you knew or not, not insulting your intelligence, because actually too few people know how to pronounce Gaelic or Gaelic originated words.

 

 

I think that a lot of people that practice Hinduism would not appreciate your attempt at being the devil's advocate. Hinduism IS a religion, not a lifestyle. I am a vegetarian- for me, this is a part of my lifestyle. It is a choice that is not based on religious beliefs or dogma. The beliefs held by Hindus are based on dogma- therefore it is a religion.

I don't really get what point you were trying to make anyway?

 

Okay, I said that wrong. I admit that mistake, but Hinduism IS a lifestyle, not JUST a religion. It is intertwined within their culture.

The point I was trying to make is that OP meant it as a complement in a way, because I personally believe the design would be beautiful, as well as, probably OP too.

 

 

 

The obvious difference here is that Hinduism is a religion still practised by millions of people, whereas the ancient Egyptian religion doesn't have any followers nowadays at all, as far as I'm aware...

 

Also, I was going to make the remark that they had Egyptian god themed characters, and yes, people actually do follow the beliefs held and practiced by the Egyptians today, albeit crude and many can almost be compared to many modern pagans and even neo-nazis (though they are extremists) in that they are only following because of misguided appeal and don't actually understand what these gods really represent. Only really devout Egyptology would truly understand these beliefs.

[Anime]

TNT has actually explicitly stated in the editorial that their Christmas celebrations have absolutely zero religions connotations.

 

I know that there is a christmas paint brush and petpet paint brush but why isn't there one for Chanukah?? Do you think that there will ever be one? - Xxxneopestsxxx

In all honesty no. We do not want any religious items on the site. Christmas in the UK isn't a big religious thing, and that is why we created the Christmas paint brush. It is more about giving presents, snow and having a fun time with friends and family. With hindsight it may have been better to choose another word to call it but it honestly has absolutely nothing to do with christianity. We wont be adding anymore items that have anything to do with christianity and we may even remove all instances of the word Christmas and replace it with Happy Valley or something like that.

 

(Please note that as this is from Issue 116. they clearly aren't going to do a total name rehaul any time soon.)

 

You have to remember that the Christmas PB has it's origins when Adam and Donna were still in charge, so it was created with fully British ideas. And, as stated, Christmas has far less religious connotations in the UK than it does in America. I'd go into how even here it's being more and more commercialized and about general togetherness instead of religion, but that topic has been adequately covered by at least three other people.

 

Also, I would like to point out that there is no Thanksgiving celebration on Neopets at any time of year- the only mention is generic greeting cards that are no longer updated and the staff getting time off which is purely due to location.

[Bodhi]

"Christmas in the UK isn't a big religious thing"? Try telling that to all the different "kinds" of Christians and even in schools where they have the nativity play at this time of year.

Though, it's not as much religious as it was, I agree. It's more about ££££ now.

[lilshadowdweller]

I kind of think you guys are being a bit too harsh on Keitp. Obviously, he was not aware that he had crossed a line and was frustrated by TNT for having been warned. Being warned is a scary thing, even I've been warned for seemingly harmless things. But do not worry, a warning isn't a big deal. It's annoying, but you really have to think before you post. I enjoy just sticking with Neopet related discussion on Neopets, they are considerably uptight to the point where there isn't even a "General Discussion".

 

While I do agree with TNT's stance with religions, the overall problem is, regardless of your assertions otherwise, all of these "traditions" were established by a religious sect. TNT is skipping around this.And yes, as a person who isn't religious but celebrates "Christmas" anyway, I enjoy having these little celebrations based on the site. I am not against it. But I see your comparison, especially when you had just desired a certain colour. This argument won't work with TNT.

 

But I think we can easily refer to this thread as the main example of why TNT doesn't allow religious discussions. Within merely two pages, 3 users commented on how they were offended, we can also reference other religious discussions on this "debate" chat and see how it hits a hard spot with the participaters. While this board is meant for debate, this forum has a relatively low member based compared to the Neopet boards. Could you imagine how difficult it is for their Moderators to deal with it? Not to mention, Neopets is now linked to a bunch of other websites; which makes far more content to deal with.

 

It's just easier for them to ban touchy subjects altogether, and be weary of anything they suspect may lead to these touchy subjects.

 

My advice? Stick to posting things like that in these boards, or, like stated, just contact/suggest to TNT.

[~Xandria]

I do agree that some people were a bit harsh on him. :P I don't think they were trying to be though. I think everyone was just trying to point out why it wasn't allowed and got him a warning. TNT isn't picking sides here. They don't want ANY kind of religious discussions of any kind, or anything that even remotely hints at it and for good reason. So the posters were just trying to explain why he was warned. As someone else pointed out - he would not have been warned if he would have sent in a ticket instead of posting about it on the neoboards. I don't think he was scared about having been warned, just mad about it.