Gender Identity!

[AJ11]

As an older person who has lived to see the prejudices that have happened to those who do identify as other than Cisgendered it is refreshing to see this subject discussed here in such an open minded and informed way.

 

My partner is transgendered and lives as a woman, I have never had any issue with those who choose to live their lives in the gender they choose, or simply express themselves in the way they feel is right for them at the time.

 

I have spent a number of years supporting other trans people online and in person, and I see this positive thread as hope for the future. I hope that the future will be a lot less restrictive and judgmental, and speaking to younger people makes me think this is likely too.

[Guest Tahalika]

Okay, old topic, but it's still a rather relevant one considering more and more people are learning/opening up to trans/nonbinary genders now. And cause it's a pretty important topic to me. But still, very sorry if this is pushing it, since the last post was August!

 

For the most part this thread seems quite positive. No one's trying to delegitimize nonbinary genders or neopronouns, or trying to say that being transgender is weird; which is always good, a lot of forums still view this kind of thing in an extremely toxic and dangerous light. But this forum does have some issues in itself with it, if people don't mind me addressing.

 

I'll start minor first, and that's a bit of a grammar thing I learned myself. Cisgendered and Transgendered aren't exactly the correct way of saying it, instead opting for Cisgender and Transgender. Reason being that the -ed implies something happened to cause the person to change into that, which can be seen as quite offensive to those who see their identity as something they've had since birth; nothing something that's changed them. Think of the difference between yellow paper and yellowed paper.

 

Second, quite a few posts seem to have a hefty load of cissexism to it. To anyone who doesn't know, cissexism is a term that describes saying how things are inherently gendered, like saying dresses are for females and cars are for males. Obviously, we know that's not true, so it's not really appropriate to describe activities, items, and basically anything on gendered terms; any gender can like it, and it doesn't make anyone less of their gender. It's true we live in a society that basically has gendered items as such, but that doesn't mean we have to stick to that, do we?

 

Ah, I guess that's basically it with my critique, so let's go more personal. For a long time I always felt like I was something more than just a girl; ever since I was around 12, I believe that's when things really started feeling weird for me. I wasn't sure what I felt like; sometimes I felt like a girl, but I had a desire to be a boy. At that young age, I thought that meant I wanted to be a boy "permanently," so I contemplated the idea of surgery. It terrified me, but at that young age I thought you couldn't be any gender other than what you were assigned at birth without surgery.

 

Years later, I contemplated more and decides I didn't exactly want to be a boy, but I didn't feel like a girl either. But even then this fluctuated; sometimes I felt like a girl, sometimes a boy, and sometimes I had that stagnant feeling of being neither. One that I could describe at my age, since I never heard of a term for it before.

 

Then I joined Tumblr, and learned a lot more about feminism and stuff like that. As I learned about misogyny and how women were basically demeaned to feel inferior to men in most cases, I thought that this was a sign that I was a girl, but all this time I was just ashamed to admit it because of internalize misogyny. So for a while I was content with that, I was a woman and didn't have to feel ashamed anymore because it was just people being nasty; not actually a case of girls being worse.

 

Then I learned about non-binary genders, or more specifically, I learned about agender; the lack of a gender. At this term, I was happy for a bit cause I thought I had finally figured myself out for real; because I still had felt that weird bit of feeling like nothing on occasion, where I hated being called a girl or woman. But I kept learning more and more identities. Bigender, Genderqueer, Demigirl. So many I wasn't too sure of that might've described me.

 

For a while I played with Neutrois for a bit, as it was described as "feeling neutral gender/equally male and female." And to me, that sounded right for a while. Until there were days I felt more like one gender over another, or a mix of genders.

 

More searching and learning eventually lead me to finding out the term that described me best; Genderfluid. Meaning my gender fluctuates from day to day, sometimes influenced by my mood or my state of mind and sometimes just changing randomly. For the most part I feel either female or agender, or a mix of the two, but there are times I feel male, a mix of male and agender/female, a mix of all three, or sometimes even something else entirely. Finally being able to figure out myself made me feel so excited, like the world was finally opened up to me.

 

Needless to say though, I'm still closeted in my real life about this. On the internet I feel safer to talk about it; even if there's some nasty words flung at me, ultimately I don't feel like I'm in danger. People don't send me threats of violence or death, they just call me special or "fake" and barely come up with an argument after that. I don't feel that way in real life though. I don't feel that way with my family, or my friends outside of the internet.

 

I live in the south, and sad to say but the stereotypes of people here being bigoted beyond belief is very real. Every day I hear my grandma and dad say racial slurs, talk about how homosexuality is wrong and transgender people are "defiers of God." Talk about how the country is going to ruin because anyone who isn't pale skinned is an illegal immigrant, how they're just being catered to unlike "us real working Americans."

 

I'm scared to tell them of how I feel gender-wise. How I very well fit under the transgender umbrella since I don't really identify with my assigned gender all the time. Because to them they aren't people, they're just "fakers," "blasphemers," "abominations." We aren't human to them, and I already get treated badly enough for my mental health. If I told my grandma I felt transgender, I'm very positive she would kick me out.

 

It sad, living in a world where you can't really be happy with yourself unless you feel hidden. Because otherwise your very safety feels at risk, your life or stability or anything in between. I'm happy knowing I'm genderfluid, I'm happy sharing it with people who at worst would say I'm a "genderspecial," and I'm very happy sharing it with people who are supportive or understanding of it. I'm terrified at the idea that my family or people in my town would find out, deem me a freak and make me yet another headline as either a person who committed suicide or was murdered for just being myself.

 

But to me, no matter what, my gender is important. It's a part of me, changing every day much like a new pair of clothing. To me it's real, and legitimate, and it makes me happy to finally know what I am. I hope I can live long enough to see trans/non-binary genders be more accepted than they are now, where it's a norm to say "they" instead of "he or she." I probably won't, but it's a nice thought to think; especially since we have access to stuff like the internet now, letting all sorts of minds come together to make their thoughts apparent and call out the troubling things within society. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but maybe it's not so farfetched of a thought.

 

Anyway, got a bit long here, but like I said, this is a pretty important topic to me. I felt like sharing my own experience with gender and I really hope you don't mind; I never really went in depth with it before, so this was a change of pace.

 

In whatever case, I wish the best of luck to people who are questioning their own gender! Keep looking mates, you'll find that fit one day, even if it turns out to be something of your own creation to define yourself!

[Various]

Genderqueer here. My pronouns are they/them/their.

 

Going to try to write about this but I'm dyslexic so I may not get my point across properly. Please ask for clarification if anything I write is confusing and I'll try to find another way to express it.

There are three options for the biological sex you are born with: male, female or intersex. Your sex is what's between your legs. Your gender is in your brain. Sex and gender are different things. I hate people who go "oh but gender is a social construct" like that completely discredits all genders that aren't cisgender. Our identities as human beings are completely and utterly tied up in how we interact with other people. That's society! Who you are is shaped by how you interact with everything.

And I'm going to stop on this now because I can't write about this properly.

 

Anyway, I loathe it when people call me a woman, or refer to me as she. I've only told a few people in person that I'm genderqueer and what my pronouns are as it will cause too many problems if I tried to explain it to family and work. (If any of my facebook friends look at my info page they'll see it but nobody looks there anyway :P ) So I just get on with it. When I'm in a more stable position I'll probably leave Narnia but not until then.

 

So far, the funniest question I've had about my gender from a person I've told was "oh, it's it because you can't have children?" (They weren't being nasty, they just didn't have a clue. )

[FoolishFancy]

I really like the way you explained the difference between gender and sex there.

To anyone who has the beeb, did you catch the Louis Theroux documentary about transgendered children? Any thoughts?

[squishyslug]

Sorry to post on an old-ish thread but I just wanted to chime in and say how great this discussion has been. (I've actually been impressed with how welcome Neopets spaces are in general to different genders identities.) My gender is complicated, so I appreciate it. (BTW, on Neopets some people have their gender as "Robot," they should make that a standard option!)

[coryldork]

My gender has been a huge area of discomfort for me since I was 13. I remember one conversation I had with my mother, and we ended up screaming at each other. I said, "What if I'm a boy?" and she said, "You're not. I changed your diapers."

 

I'm so glad that the Internet has given me a space to understand and explore gender identity, because the dysphoria I feel with the connection between my body and my gender has gotten so intense that I wouldn't leave my bedroom. I'm a bigender pal, identifying as male and female, and man oh man does it feel good to finally have something that fits.

 

Having encouraging and open spaces (like this thread!) is so essential for people to figure out what fits best for them, as well as to lessen the bigoted blows from close-minded people. Thanks for having this discussion up here. :D

[twilight790]

I feel like a girl which is what I was assigned at birth. I've never really thought about actually identifying as a different gender. I mean what really makes you a certain gender? I hang out with guys and I am a "bro", but I have a boyfriend and have experimented a bit with my old friend who turned out to be bisexual. I definitely like guys, but act like a guy to a degree. So I mean really what makes a girl a girl or a boy a boy other than the parts they have? You are who you are right? It shouldn't matter what gender you really are or what you identify as.

[ladybug22may]

 

Second, quite a few posts seem to have a hefty load of cissexism to it. To anyone who doesn't know, cissexism is a term that describes saying how things are inherently gendered, like saying dresses are for females and cars are for males. Obviously, we know that's not true, so it's not really appropriate to describe activities, items, and basically anything on gendered terms; any gender can like it, and it doesn't make anyone less of their gender. It's true we live in a society that basically has gendered items as such, but that doesn't mean we have to stick to that, do we?

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for addressing this! As a cisgender woman (and just a human being) I feel very uncomfortable when other humans try to use activities and items as justification for their gender identity.

 

Firstly, it is inherently cissexist (and just makes me sad inside) to say that not wanting to wear makeup makes someone less female, or that wanting to wear makeup makes them more female, etc. It also makes me worry that when people characterize their gender identities by saying things like "I don't like shopping/wearing uncomfortable high heels/deferring to men in conversation (exaggeration) therefore I am not female" because I think this neglects the entire cause of feminism. Not to undercut anyone's gender identity, but if those were the only reasons that someone was questioning their gender identity, I would be inclined to wonder if, as Tahalika said, they were "ashamed to admit [to being female] because of internalized misogyny." I make no attempt to claim, however, that this is actually common, or that anyone is not the gender, binary or nonbinary, that they identify as. The only person who has any authority on your gender identity is yourself.

 

Secondly, to refer back to who has authority on your gender identity, it also makes me sad inside when people do this because it's like they think they need evidence or justification for their identity. I know the world/society is not always fair on this, but you shouldn't need evidence. You're not making an argument--you're telling us your identity. The only reason you need is that you know that's who you are. Period. If people need evidence they are misunderstanding the issue. (I mean this in a cheering-everyone-on way, not a scolding-people way, to clarify.)

 

Anyway, just my two cents :) I love seeing respectful open conversations like this here! Such a wonderful community.

[teh_hayashi]

I am totally supportive of the gender discussion. But I think they should come up with another nomenclature for it. I'll explain.

My opinion is not very popular, but I think that "gender" and "gender identity" are two different things, and many people I've talked to disagree with me.

To me, gender is about what your born with, even if you don't identify with it. I'm not saying you have to live with it just because you're born like that, no.

What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, gender is either XX or XY, and no matter how much you change your body, your chromosomes won't change. To me, gender is a scientific name to describe whether you you carry male or female genes in your DNA.

On the other hand, gender identity is a completely different thing to me. I recognize (even though I don't fully understand) that some people's view of themselves don't completely or in part match up with their body.

I don't know any transgenders personally, but I would very much like to know someone and talk to them and try to understand what they think.

I say that I don't understand because I identify completely with my gender, so I can't imagine what it must feel like not having your body match up with your mind.

But, even though I don't understand, I know they are people; they are human beings just like me. (I'm saying this because I know there are a lot of people who won't agree with me, and will think my opinion is disrespectfull).

Human beings must be respected, so I'd never look down on a person just because they are different from me, or because I don't understand them. If I don't understand, it's my job to try my best to understand. And, at least, have some sympathy, because it can't be easy. Not on this society most of us live on.

[ladybug22may]

 

I am totally supportive of the gender discussion. But I think they should come up with another nomenclature for it. I'll explain.

My opinion is not very popular, but I think that "gender" and "gender identity" are two different things, and many people I've talked to disagree with me.

To me, gender is about what your born with, even if you don't identify with it. I'm not saying you have to live with it just because you're born like that, no.

What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, gender is either XX or XY, and no matter how much you change your body, your chromosomes won't change. To me, gender is a scientific name to describe whether you you carry male or female genes in your DNA.

On the other hand, gender identity is a completely different thing to me. I recognize (even though I don't fully understand) that some people's view of themselves don't completely or in part match up with their body.

 

While I do see what you're getting at, there's actually already a pretty established vocabulary for this, wherein the-three-letter-s-word-that-I-don't-know-if-I-can-say-here means your biological/genetic attributes and "gender" means your psychological identity. It is important to have a term that refers to the biological attributes of bodies because when you are discussing medical issues--for example, increased risks of certain cancers--these have a bearing on the issue, so I certainly understand where you're coming from with your desire for the vocab. While this-s-word-commonly-used-to-refer-to-reproduction does describe genetic makeup and biological appearance, it's also important to acknowledge that not everyone is born fitting neatly into the gender binary.

[neo_ryan_3_3_3]

Woah, it seems everyone here is very open-minded and respective of people's personal identities! That is just awesome to see!

 

I'm a straight male who identifies as a male but there's actually two transgendered kids in my school and the best part is they don't get bullied! It's a somewhat conservative area I live in too. So while I don't identify as a nonbinary gender at all, it still makes me really really happy to see how accepting people are becoming!

[lizzyjane101]

Woah, it seems everyone here is very open-minded and respective of people's personal identities! That is just awesome to see!

 

I'm a straight male who identifies as a male but there's actually two transgendered kids in my school and the best part is they don't get bullied! It's a somewhat conservative area I live in too. So while I don't identify as a nonbinary gender at all, it still makes me really really happy to see how accepting people are becoming!

 

I know, right? I've always been super invested in lgbt+ activism, even when I thought I was straight. It's really heartening to see such a strong swing towards acceptance and respect. I'm pretty much cis myself (although I have very strong opinions about enforcing gender roles and gender really isn't a but deal to me), but I have a lot of trans/ non-binary friends. I love TDN forums so much, they're just so positive and welcoming.

[Hidden Oracle]

I don't really have a strong opinion.  My motto is "do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt others or yourself."

 

People used to think I was genderqueer (?) because all my friends were guys and I dressed like a guy.  Um, no I just like comfortable clothes and video games.  But I think it's cool if your gender doesn't match with your sex, and it's cool if it does.  So yeah I guess I don't have a strong opinion.

[Pikky126]

I personally am currently genderconfused, but I figure I'll figure it out soon enough.

 

Also in regards to whether or not the genders exist?

"You do you"

~MatPat

[MysteryAF]

I'm actually transgender, but my mother wasn't very supportive of my decision.

 

My parents divorced and my mother was very abusive and wanted me to be a boy... She couldn't understand that I wasn't comfortable with that, and thankfully I got away from her and live with my father now (My mother went to jail for 5 years).

 

I could go into it more but it was traumatizing... ;-;

[eloralestrange]

I acknowledge them as real, but of course they will have to be explained to me if I meet someone. I probably won't forget though. I didn't know what cisgender meant before you enlightened me.