Bullying vs Lying

[babayaga67]

Over the past few months I have had a few falling outs with friends and family. I am being told that I am a selfish and terrible person. I have been accused of bullying the significant others of people that I care about.

I am a firm believer in "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

With my sister it was over her ex husband. I have known the guy for several years. He and my sister had broken up several times before they officially wed. I never approved of their relationship because I was always afraid that he was going to beat the crap out of her. He was one of those people that was always boiling under the surface. They moved out of state right before they were married, so I have not been able to see my sister. I was always worried about her though. When my sister and I would talk I would never bring up her husband. When she brought him up I would just gloss over him and talk about the part of the subject that had nothing to do with him. When they finally did divorce I found out that he had been cheating on her with other men to feed his new drug habit, that he had hit her quite a few times and that he had been stealing her bank card so that she couldn't pay the bills.

I have a friend with a 7 year old son who is engaged to a seemingly nice guy. It wasn't until he pulled a gun on her, they broke up, then they started going to couples counseling that she learned that he has a history of schizophrenia. He was not currently hearing voices, but it had been a problem less than two years ago. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be given a chance because he had an illness in the past. I didn't think that it was okay for him to not tell her after they had moved in together and he started doing meth. He ended up cheating on her, which led her to going through his phone. He was leading an entire second life on his phone. This guy has 3 FB accounts, 2 Twitter, 2 of something else I can't remember, half a dozen dating apps with active profiles and videos of him with other girls. My friend also found on his phone nude pictures of herself that he had sent to complete strangers. The pictures of her were timestamped at 9 am. They both work the night shift, so he was laying in bed next to her while she was asleep and sending out pictures of her to other people. They are still engaged.

Now, I do not like either of these men. I ignore them when I am forced to be around them because I don't want to lie and pretend that I think that how they have treated people I care about is okay. I don't want to cause a scene for the people I love. I don't want to hurt them anymore than these scumbags already have. Both women have said, "They have never done anything to you, why are you such a b*word?!" I don't have anything nice to say about these men and I don't want to say bad things. 

My problem is this, If I don't have anything nice to say should I just smile and lie to everyone so that I don't become a bully and hurt other people's feelings by ignoring them?

[Hidden Oracle]

If you want to maintain a relationship with your friend you're going to have to ignore him. You don't have to lie, just don't point it out. She's an adult and it's really up to her if she wants to be with an abusive man. From my experience if you keep trying to reason with her, she will likely push you away. :/ She has to realize for herself what kind of person he is.

[charelan]

Oh my goodness I feel so badly reading about this situation. It is so hard to stand by and watch a train wreck happen right in front of you when you feel like it should have been prevented in the first place. 

I feel that, ethically, if you feel this way then you owe it to the people you care about to say so... But the thing is that if the advice isn't well-taken it's not the kind of thing you can push. It's like you make your feelings known (once, but very unequivocally), let them know you'll be there for them no matter what happens... and then let it ride. I think it's all you can do. It's rotten because it must feel like just waiting for bad news :( But Hidden Oracle is right - when people don't want the advice you become the 'enemy' and they will push you away.

It's such a shame to me that these people in your life are making you feel like a terrible person or a bully bc literally it is from a place of caring. I can only think that their knee-jerk reaction is bc they know you are right and don't want to hear it or think about it. I also hate that so frequently when a woman has a really strong point of view and doesn't take bull then she is branded a b*. It's such a lazy and stupid cliche. 

I wouldn't say go out of your way to be nice to these jerky guys. I'd treat them very politely - but coldly. If asked outright I also think it's appropriate to give your true opinions, bc no I don't think you should feel like you have to lie. In no way do you want your sister or friend coming back later and saying 'well why didn't you tell me'... But you can be cordial enough not to be awkward.

[Undead]

I'd say eff it and do something about it, Your friend needs protection. 

Before my brother dies two months ago from heroin, on drugs he was abusive and even beaten me up when I was 16. But I tried so many times to call the police and such but my mother never allowed me. 

He has a 6 year old daughter and I fear for her, so I always put her before anything and I never keep what I say in. They need to know what they are doing and how it effects other people. 

[Sinvanor]

You come first. As a person who has dealt with abusive situations personally, the most important thing to follow is "Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm"
This situation is clearly very upsetting.

I think you need to take a long hard look at this and decide if you need to make an ultimatum.
You can love to pieces a family member or friend, but if they live toxic lives (even if it's not their fault, abuse is very hard to get out of, but it's still not your responsibility) that will spill over into yours. Keeping lower contact or in extreme cases cutting them out entirely might be something to consider.

You do not HAVE to like these people. Even if they were fine human beings (which they aren't, cheating is pretty unforgivable especially if it is continuous, and hitting, beating, pointing guns are all just terrifying) you didn't marry/become engaged to them. Sometimes people just don't get along and tolerate each other. For them to expect you to like them is not fair. Tolerate, sure, but I would never expect everyone to like my partner. I'd wonder why, but sometimes people just don't click or get along. I can't expect people to love everyone I chose to have in my life.

9 hours ago, babayaga67 said:

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Wonderful in theory, but in practice, if this is about your own well being, mental/physical, then you are more than allowed to speak up that these people are hurting others you care about and it's not your responsibility to deal with it. You don't want to be around toxic situations, especially if those situations cause them to lash out at you, when you've tried your best to be cordial and say nothing because you don't want to cause a ruckus.
But them calling you a B*word? They are already starting a ruckus, they are making a scene calling you a bully. You have a right to defend yourself against this toxicity.

Ideally maybe they can just not talk about their partners and you can not be around when they visit. Unfortunately you can't drag people out of really crappy toxic relationships by force, and generaly one person alone realizing the situation is not enough.

And while sure, people can change, in this case, one of them has a pretty terrible mental health disorder which causes many of these issues, it's not an excuse. Relationships with people is not if they love and care for you, it's how they treat you most of the time. If half of your life spent with your partner is them living another life, threatening yours, screaming, fighting etc, it's not a good relationship. Heck, even if this happens only 20% of the time, that's still pretty awful.

9 hours ago, babayaga67 said:

"They have never done anything to you, why are you such a b*word?!"

Yes, because hurting people you care about doesn't do anything to you at all. That makes so much sense. (sarcasm) People don't seem to understand that our lives are not solely our own when we have others who care about us. When someone we love is being hurt, that affects us. Doesn't matter if any form of abuse was directed at us personally or not. 

Above all, I'm so sorry you have to deal with any of this nonsense. It's a very frustrating and terrifying situation watching others be in abusive relationships and then them getting mad at you for not liking the abusive people, because they can't see them for what they are.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Sinvanor
Formatting and spelling

[babayaga67]

@Hidden Oracle I made my opinion known once. I am not a huge fan of repeating myself. I don't like working myself up and being angry all of the time. I have three kids to take care of. I don't have enough emotions left to invest them all into trying to convince my people that they can be happy without the abuse. I just spend the rest of the time ignoring the bad guys, but that is why they claim that I am a giant bully.

5 hours ago, charelan said:

I wouldn't say go out of your way to be nice to these jerky guys. I'd treat them very politely - but coldly. If asked outright I also think it's appropriate to give your true opinions, bc no I don't think you should feel like you have to lie. In no way do you want your sister or friend coming back later and saying 'well why didn't you tell me'... But you can be cordial enough not to be awkward.

I don't initiate conversations. IF a response is required because I was asked a direct question, I use a few words as possible. These guys know that I don't like them. That is the problem. The fiance is, and I know that this doesn't make sense, but he is the biggest crybaby I have ever met. He spends more time crying than my 3 year old son! My friend confronts me and calls me names because he guy can't solve his own problems and cries to her EVERY SINGLE TIME! He is super manipulative of her and I find it disgusting. 

Both of these people have been in off/on again relationships. They don't even come to me for consultation because they think that I will rub it in their face. I would never do that. I will help them and console them, but I will not say "I told you so." There is a time and a place for that kind of comment, and when someone is hurting emotionally because of a horrible betrayal  that is not it.

@Undead I am so sorry to hear about your brother. I would like to believe that I would never prevent any of my children from calling for help when it was needed. I hope my opinion does not offend you, but I think that it was wrong for your mother to stop you from calling the police. I hope that that little girl grows up safe and happy despite those nasty early years.

My sister is now separated from her husband and in a new relationship. I know that, in the end, my friend will separate from her fiance because she is also a cheater. One of the times that my friend left her fiance it was so that she could leave the state to have a sex weekend with an old fling. She has even said to me, "Yes, I hate him, but I hate paying bills by myself more." Her reasoning does not adhere to any known rules of logic. 

1 hour ago, Sinvanor said:

Yes, because hurting people you care about doesn't do anything to you at all. That makes so much sense. (sarcasm) People don't seem to understand that our lives are not solely our own when we have others who care about us. When someone we love is being hurt, that affects us. Doesn't matter if any form of abuse was directed at us personally or not. 

Thank you!

I know that there is just a lot in this topic. I felt like I had to give context for my question. I know that ignoring people is an effective form of bullying, but does that apply in a situation like this? Is it worse if I express my opinion every time I see them or if I just pretend they are not there? At what point do I lie and smile like everything is okay so that the people I care about aren't suffering extra because of my actions? Am I a jerk for not respecting and supporting my friend/sister in their relationships?

[emily_speck_15]

I'm going to be blunt.  Abuse needs to be called out whenever it is seen and can not have excuses made for it.  One of my best friends is in a controlling relationship and I consistently call out the problematic behavior as it helps to not be normalized. Not talking to people in abusive relationships only helps the abuser as it allows them to be seen as a the only one who will support them. 

Encourage both to leave. And don't be afraid of offending someone who is hurting someone you love. 

I'm sorry this situation is so hard.  There is no good answer as to how to act when someone you care about is being hurt by someone they love.  

[Undead]

I rarely get offended and I agree with you 100%, Heck, I couldn't date police officers because of my brothers' problems. Two of them ruined their lives, What ended it was heroin. One dead and the other brain damage and paralyzed