mishalunchbox Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Today is at least the second occasion on which i have used the "search" box to search for a thread, turned up NO results, posted a new thread, and then had my thread locked because the topic for which i searched -- and for which i turned up no results -- already existed. This is extremely frustrating, and sort of depressing. If we are required so stringently to not start new threads on existing topics, can we pleeeeaaaaaaase fix the search function so those existing topics actually show up in a search so we KNOW they already exist?? I really don't like the moderator warnings, as you can perhaps tell by my signature. And yet i'm almost guaranteed to get one for about every third post. Probably nobody minds if i'm discouraged from posting, but how many other, actually valuable people have been put off? I would say i was on a crusade to reduce the number of moderator corrections, but i'm afraid to post here now ;) On a related kvetch, i have new information to add to my observation that was locked just now. Since my post was just locked rather than being moved to the correct thread, and since my new information is related to the original post, where do i put the new information? If i add it to the correct thread, it won't make sense. If i repeat the original to make it make sense, it'll get deleted or locked or sent a bag of fire ants in the mail (that's a joke kids, hoping to lighten it up). What do i do? Why is this so hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn the Human Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Today is at least the second occasion on which i have used the "search" box to search for a thread, turned up NO results, posted a new thread, and then had my thread locked because the topic for which i searched -- and for which i turned up no results -- already existed. This is extremely frustrating, and sort of depressing. If we are required so stringently to not start new threads on existing topics, can we pleeeeaaaaaaase fix the search function so those existing topics actually show up in a search so we KNOW they already exist?? I really don't like the moderator warnings, as you can perhaps tell by my signature. And yet i'm almost guaranteed to get one for about every third post. Probably nobody minds if i'm discouraged from posting, but how many other, actually valuable people have been put off? I would say i was on a crusade to reduce the number of moderator corrections, but i'm afraid to post here now ;) On a related kvetch, i have new information to add to my observation that was locked just now. Since my post was just locked rather than being moved to the correct thread, and since my new information is related to the original post, where do i put the new information? If i add it to the correct thread, it won't make sense. If i repeat the original to make it make sense, it'll get deleted or locked or sent a bag of fire ants in the mail (that's a joke kids, hoping to lighten it up). What do i do? Why is this so hard? Well, I just double check to make sure. You can also put in the first post/topic post that you are not sure if there is already a topic for this. Also a something seems to be trending, I check the latest topics which in your case would be the Salamander Thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Have you tried clearing your browser cache? When I search "scamander," the other thread is the first result I get (after yours because yours was newer). You may be searching in a cached version of the site if you haven't cleaned your cache or temp files in a while. Also, your thread was in the same forum as the other one (right above it in fact), and the other one was also in the top 5 newest threads you see when you go to the forums homepage at http://www.tdnforums.com/ . It can't hurt to take a minute to double check. The reason for the rule against duplicate threads is so all the discussion is in one place and easier to find. Moderator edits exist to remind you of the rules so people hopefully remember them the next time they post. Sometimes a quick refresh of the rules is helpful, especially for users who have been around for a while and may not have read the rules since they joined. Where it becomes a problem is when we see the same people constantly getting edits/warnings, especially if they're always for the same things. Then we have to question as to why they seem to be unable/unwilling to follow the rules when hundreds of users can and do without issue. I can't see why the info in your second thread would be out of place in the other thread. The point about them appearing on exactly the same day was rather interesting. Zombiiesque, Rebecca~, lindorie and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishalunchbox Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Browser cache should have nothing to do with it, as i'm using the site search box rather than my browser's text search, but either way, when i tried it just now, it worked :* Perhaps i messed up in some hideous way, such as searching "this topic" rather than "forums," in which case i'm not sure i like the default search option being the narrowest possible scope. Maybe "forums" should be the default scope, and users can narrow it based on their needs? The first time this happened to me, i searched for "advertise" and "advertising" -- plus misspellings of those words -- and came up empty. Because i knew the thread to advertise an item existed, i even looked through the first page of posts in every forum, and still found nothing. Perhaps because of my earlier failure at looking through the topics myself, i didn't bother this time; but that doesn't explain why i then relied so heavily on the search box, which has also failed me in the past. Once again, i've failed at avoiding failure. I have no beef with the rule against duplicate posts. It makes perfect sense to me. And in terms of my hypothetical quest to reduce moderator edits, i'd like to add that this reduction would hypothetically be effected by making the rules easier to follow. Say, by improving the default scope on the search box to reduce duplicate posts :nerd: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It should default to Forums if you search from tdnforums homepage.I just searched for Advertise and got "Your search for the term advertise returned 153 results". :mellow: If that somehow doesn't work for you, you could always do a google search query: " site:www.tdnforums.com" ;) Also, the rules are somewhat flexible to the moderator that handles it. The rules just mean a moderator can make a mod edit (in most cases they will, but they are humans, not robots following preprogrammed instructions, and do understand and sympathize). It would be quite unfair for a moderator to crack down on an unannounced rule. ;) Emily and Zombiiesque 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passiflora Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 On a related kvetch, i have new information to add to my observation that was locked just now. Since my post was just locked rather than being moved to the correct thread, and since my new information is related to the original post, where do i put the new information? If i add it to the correct thread, it won't make sense. If i repeat the original to make it make sense, it'll get deleted or locked or sent a bag of fire ants in the mail (that's a joke kids, hoping to lighten it up). What do i do? Why is this so hard? I'm not a mod so I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain that you can just make a post in the other thread which contains your original message & new information. (I've seen people do similar things, especially for advertising or adoption threads.) Your scamander post was very interesting and would definitely add to the discussion! :O Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishalunchbox Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Let me start by saying that many people mistake my matter-of-factness for anger or something else negative. I've tried to sprinkle enough smiley faces on my text to ensure everyone knows i'm not being "witchy" at you. At least not on purpose. It should default to Forums if you search from tdnforums homepage. Well, yes. As i said above, the default option is the narrowest scope possible; on the forums page, "forums" is the narrowest scope possible. My point is that no matter what page you're on when you search, the scope should be "forums;" and if you wish something narrower, you specify. The current search is counter-intuitive. I'm a back-end web programmer, interface designer, and user of the interwebs since before some of you were born; if i find the interface counter-intuitive and frustrating, there are likely to be others. And yes, i could use Google, and this would all be great if we were just talking about me and my neurotic problems :arrowhead: But i'm talking about making the feature more intuitive for everyone's use. Also, the rules are somewhat flexible to the moderator that handles it. The rules just mean a moderator can make a mod edit (in most cases they will, but they are humans, not robots following preprogrammed instructions, and do understand and sympathize). It would be quite unfair for a moderator to crack down on an unannounced rule. ;) I don't disagree with any of this, and am not sure why you're telling it to me :) Maybe i haven't been clear enough in my point? The search feature is capable of tripping up even the most web-savvy of members. A small change would make the feature more intuitive, and may also reduce the number of duplicate posts (and therefore the number of moderator edits, which i happen to find numerous enough to discourage me from posting at all). (Crack down on an unannounced rule? Where did that come from?) Passiflora, you're probably right. I'm just all discombobulated by my unnatural aversion to being corrected :laughingsmiley: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well, yes. As i said above, the default option is the narrowest scope possible; on the forums page, "forums" is the narrowest scope possible. My point is that no matter what page you're on when you search, the scope should be "forums;" and if you wish something narrower, you specify. The current search is counter-intuitive. I'm a back-end web programmer, interface designer, and user of the interwebs since before some of you were born; if i find the interface counter-intuitive and frustrating, there are likely to be others. Unfortunately, if the Forums software doesn't have that specific option, it would be very difficult to implement (you'd have to edit the source and modify it and hope it doesn't mess up everything else). Besides, it's just one extra click. :P Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Overall point here is double-check the main page. One click and it solves 99.9% of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishalunchbox Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Sigh. I feel like my primary point is being missed. After this i'll stop trying to get it across, i promise. Because it totally doesn't matter. Make the site better, don't make it better, whatever. I've offered my suggestion, and if you don't use it -- or, for that matter, don't even know what it is ;) -- that's totally cool. I would prefer that you not think i'm going on an on whining about having to make one extra click, but if you continue to believe that, then i guess i'll just have to live with it. I am not complaining about the intensive labor involved in clicking one extra time. I've already admitted that i failed to double check the main page, and that that was my bad. I am sooooooo NOT not talking about making the site easier for ME. I am talking about the intuitiveness of the interface. One extra click isn't a problem unless users (all users, not just me!) don't necessarily know they need to make it. A good site feature should work the way users (old and new) will probably expect it to; most search boxes on most sites (like one that people are very accustomed to using: YouTube) default to searching the entire site. Improved intuitiveness is theoretically easier to implement than it would be to psychically beam the extra instructions directly into the brains of every person who comes to this site. ...I say "theoretically" because most package programmers write some seriously ugly code and have some obstinate ideas about what people want vs. what the programmers want them to want, so it could be a toss-up there. Anyhoo. Summary. My experience: not an issue. Overall user experience: issue. Tone of voice: probably not as "witchy" as it may sound. Waffles: awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 As Crimson mentioned, we use a third party forum and have no control over this. And quite honestly (as an observation, not being mean) I haven't seen many people have trouble with the search function. Personally, I find it easier to take a quick look through recent threads (especially since the newest 5 are right on the front page) if it's a recent topic than to bother typing things into the search. The search also clearly states right beside the input field if it's searching the topic, forum, members or help. I don't see why it's that much of an issue. You just need to look beside it to see what you're searching. Most forums I have ever used work this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrtbrk Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 FTR: It does default to search the entire forum if you're viewing the front of the forum. It will search a specific forum, if you are viewing said specific forum. As stated, it's just another click to search the entire forum, if you're viewing a specific forum and wish to search the forum in it's entirety. Options. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xepha Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I am talking about the intuitiveness of the interface. One extra click isn't a problem unless users (all users, not just me!) don't necessarily know they need to make it. A good site feature should work the way users (old and new) will probably expect it to; most search boxes on most sites (like one that people are very accustomed to using: YouTube) default to searching the entire site. Improved intuitiveness is theoretically easier to implement than it would be to psychically beam the extra instructions directly into the brains of every person who comes to this site. ...I say "theoretically" because most package programmers write some seriously ugly code and have some obstinate ideas about what people want vs. what the programmers want them to want, so it could be a toss-up there. Anyhoo. Summary. My experience: not an issue. Overall user experience: issue. Tone of voice: probably not as "witchy" as it may sound. Waffles: awesome. I just looked at the admin panel and no where I can find an easy switch to change the area of the search box. The only possible thing we could do to accommodate our users would be to open a ticket with IP.Boards to see if that is something that could be fixed in their next version. I can bring this to the attention of Ian, TDN's site owner. By the way, you can always click on the word beside the search box where it says for instance "this topic" and toggle it to "forums" to get a scope of results from the whole forums. I use that switch all the time when I want to search for users rather than topics, so I've grown very familiar with it. Is the whole thing counter-intuitive, probably. Can we do something right now to fix it, nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper_111 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Ah you see it's good I stumbled upon this topic. I'm not really tech-savvy so I had a little bit of trouble finding things on the site which is why I try to follow everything I post in lol. I also am not used to the way the site is set up yet & I've never really had any exposure to forums other than Neopets but I read some info I was not aware of. So thank you for that; I feel much more informed. Either way, the mods are nice about it when you make a mistake. You shouldn't take it so harshly, it's like constructive criticism to improve the experience for all the members at TDNF. Mouseykins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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