Let's talk about GAY MARRIAGE!

[arkwright]

When you hurt me ---- I will try to hurt you back.

Even you, Karina --- can't say that Rebecca's been playing nice.

And --- I never left. I've been here sending messages to people, all along.

& I didn't mean to get anyone riled up.

I was looking for advice.

 

Hate to jump in on a subject about a board that this board isn`t related to, but it definitely didn`t look like you wanted advice. It looked like you had an opinion - a very unpopular opinion, and you wanted to argue it loudly knowing fine well everyone would disagree with you. Advice is generally more "I have a problem can you help..." "Oh yes thank you for your opinion I`ll consider it." not ... "No you`re wrong."

I`m just saying.

 

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[complicatedwishes]

Personally I support Gay Marriage. I think everyone should have the right to commit themselves to someone, no matter what their sexuality is.

[vyvren]

Personally I support Gay Marriage. I think everyone should have the right to commit themselves to someone, no matter what their sexuality is.

 

I wish I could like posts! I completely agree with you, Lou - I believe in true equal rights.

[complicatedwishes]

I wish I could like posts! I completely agree with you, Lou - I believe in true equal rights.

Aw :)

In my eyes, it's literally as simple as that. Every person deserves the right to be happy! :D.

[Zombiiesque]

I wish I could like both of those posts - I totally agree with you! <3

[November_Scorpio]

Personally, I don't believe that it's right, that's how I was raised, what my religion believes, and that type of thing. HOWEVER, I don't hate anyone that is gay, or lesbian, or whatever. I get that it's their choice, and that's that.

[stephiime]

I don't see why some people react so severely to this topic. Some people aren't even homosexual and they boycott on companies that don't support gay marriage ... it's not like we're going to stop buying oil and gas from the Middle East because the countries there think being gay is a crime ...

I mean and I'm also Christian but I don't see why some Christians are so strongly opposed and even sin because they strongly disapprove ...

And if the Salvation Army (Christian based) refuses to help homosexuals, I don't see why people should be offended because it's their belief/religion. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to ... and it's not like their refusal is illegal or anything.

As long as no one's harmed, I think it's alright ... I'm one of those people that just don't want to be involved :/ ahem...

[passiflora]

Personally, I don't believe that it's right, that's how I was raised, what my religion believes, and that type of thing. HOWEVER, I don't hate anyone that is gay, or lesbian, or whatever. I get that it's their choice, and that's that.

What religion, if you don't mind my asking? There are probably many other things your religion "believes" that most people never give a second thought about. Besides, some people within the Abrahamic religions even think that the bible/quran doesn't condemn homosexuality at all (mainly due to alternate or mistranslations).

 

 

Also, being gay isn't a choice. ;D

 

 

And if the Salvation Army (Christian based) refuses to help homosexuals, I don't see why people should be offended because it's their belief/religion. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to ... and it's not like their refusal is illegal or anything.

I'm one of those people that just don't want to be involved :/ ahem...

The Salvation Army receives government funding (i.e. tax dollars) and as such shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. People have filed lawsuits against them for it (not homosexuality specifically, but on the basis of religion or lack thereof).

 

 

I used to think the same way until my best friend came out as gay. I didn't know how I felt about it so I was apathetic, but I think sometimes it takes really getting to know someone and understand what they're going through - then it becomes much more important. :)

[November_Scorpio]

What religion, if you don't mind my asking? There are probably many other things your religion "believes" that most people never give a second thought about. Besides, some people within the Abrahamic religions even think that the bible/quran doesn't condemn homosexuality at all (mainly due to alternate or mistranslations).

 

 

Also, being gay isn't a choice. ;D

 

 

I know it's not a choice, just used it for lack of a better word. But I am LDS, and yeah, we do believe things that most people don't give a second thought about. I don't like to say it over the internet, because then I get asked a lot of stupid inconsiderate questions and stuff like that, But like I said before, I'm not going to hate someone just because they are gay. I'd rather get to know the person first than, "Oh, you're gay? You must be evil!" type thing.

[Zombiiesque]

You know, I think the thing that gets me about this whole debate is this: I'm fine with it if you don't agree because of your religion - that's your right, and I won't knock you for it, although I myself like to do a lot of research about a subject before I make a final judgement on something. However, this is a governmental issue, and we are supposed to have a separation of church and state. I'm just guessing, but I don't think any gay couple would mind if they couldn't be married in a church - they'd probably be just fine as long as it was recognized as a legitimate union by the government so that their partners would have the same rights as any other married couples would. Honestly it's pretty ridiculous that at this point in history we're still having to debate a human rights issue like this.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

And if the Salvation Army (Christian based) refuses to help homosexuals, I don't see why people should be offended because it's their belief/religion. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to ... and it's not like their refusal is illegal or anything.

 

No, you can't force someone to do something they don't want to...except for what Passiflora said. But if the Salvation Army is so offended by homosexuals, to the point where they will let one die (yes, they do this) before they will lift a finger to help, why can't people be offended by that? Why do you think the Salvation Army has this right to being offended, but everyone else does not? And why can't we be offended that the official Salvation Army position is actually that gay people deserve death? (I'm not just saying that because they do in fact let gay people die rather than help; they have actually agreed that that is their position.)

 

I'd rather give my money to a charity that doesn't discriminate in giving help.

[Rebecca~]

No, you can't force someone to do something they don't want to...except for what Passiflora said. But if the Salvation Army is so offended by homosexuals, to the point where they will let one die (yes, they do this) before they will lift a finger to help, why can't people be offended by that? Why do you think the Salvation Army has this right to this freedom, but everyone else does not? And why can't we be offended that the official Salvation Army position is actually that gay people deserve death? (I'm not just saying that because they let gay people die rather than help; they have actually agreed that that is their position.)

And people wonder why I hate the Salvation Army so much. >.> Unfortunately, it's the church that all my family is a part of, and even the non-religious members still donate to them. Urgh.

 

But yes. Churchs get massive tax breaks- why are they allowed to discriminate like this?

Recently, a Canadian court ruled that the owners of a Bed & Breakfast (whom were religious) were not allowed to discriminate and say that a queer couple weren't allowed to stay there. (This is one of the reasons why I love Canada so much. <3) (Oh, in case anyone is interested... linkie!)

So if they ruled this... then why is the Salvation Army allowed to get away with all of their crap?

[Zombiiesque]

Oh gosh, that's wonderful! Ugh, just makes me want to move to Canada even more. Put that on the list of things that restore my faith in humanity through all of this.

[Caro]

It is my opinion that if someone who is in a homosexual relationship decides they wish to get married, that should be fine as with anyone who has found someone that they call a life partner.

 

Civil Unions are legal where I live but I was actually surprised to find out that marriage itself wasn't. I was under the impression that people of any orientation were able to choose whether they were joining through union or marriage which is what everyone should have the right to choose from(as a local TV drama once showed a lesbian marriage? Though I think I was young at the time and never knew otherwise). There is going to be talks of having it legalised and even the majority of public is either for it or undecided but it will take quite some time before they even make a decision about it.

 

 

I agree with the idea of a church being able to refuse to marry two people; but for the law/right itself to be refused is not okay.

 

 

 

smalltext because the following are random thoughts that aren't well constructed or whatever word-wise. I'm kind of distracted at the moment but there are opinions/points I'd like to add.

In general I don't really like the idea of marriage itself for several reasons; partly because thousands or tens of thousands is a lot of money to spend on one event :P (though I know not everyone does and some people don't even get married for other reasons too), also I am agnostic but marriage seems to be for some part a religion-ish thing...? I can see where there is legal benefits from it and such but it would be better if there was another way to declare someone your life partner.

A lot of people nowadays don't take marriage seriously... I guess my view on that would be differing from others because I am young (and am seeing a lot of my peers who now have children and such already). I can understand that divorce would be needed for many situations but some people seem to jump in and out of it. I would only marry if I was sure that (ignoring possible financial and other issues) it would be a stable and very long term relationship and I would wish everyone else did the same. Please feel free to deconstruct anything I've said and perhaps I can explain myself better lol

 

Reading about marriage and unions having different rights was quite shocking. I don't think that's right.

 

Slightly off-topic but I don't get where that 'being gay is a choice' thing has come from. How in the world are you supposed to choose who you are attracted to?

I could understand not pursuing a relationship with someone as choosing but otherwise, do you force yourself (or 'choose') somehow to not register attractive hormones from the same gender or something...?

[cleomiele]

And if the Salvation Army (Christian based) refuses to help homosexuals, I don't see why people should be offended because it's their belief/religion. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to ... and it's not like their refusal is illegal or anything.

As long as no one's harmed, I think it's alright ... I'm one of those people that just don't want to be involved :/ ahem...

 

"As long as no one is harmed." That's exactly the problem; people on the receiving end of the discrimination ARE being harmed, whether it be through the stripping of the same basic rights straight/cis people have (e.g. getting married, visitation in jail, being allowed to be involved in a partner's medical decisions, etc.) or the emotional, physical, and mental harm that comes with that discrimination, such as the unusually high suicide rates of non-straight/binary teenagers. There are many groups and organizations out there that try to give corrective "therapy" to people that identify as anything other than straight, as well as those that are committed to making sure they NEVER get equal legal protection and rights. That, to me, sounds like people are being harmed in a very significant way.

 

People cannot afford to be apathetic about things like this; whether someone is cisgendered, queer, straight, bisexual, gay, pansexual, WHATEVER, don't you think they should have the same basic rights as everyone else? Why does their orientation make them a lesser individual or a second-class citizen compared to the people that qualify more with society's "norm"? The right to things like having a fair running for jobs, being able to commit themselves to someone they love, and being able to be themselves with their brothers and sisters in arms without fear of legal repercussions (DADT) seem like basic rights that shouldn't be denied to any person. To be indifferent is to allow your apathy to help perpetuate this intolerance and inequality in society.

 

I can understand if people don't AGREE with the "lifestyle," based on religion or whatever other influence they might have, but personal beliefs are no reason to deny a significant portion of the population their rights. I just don't think that's a very kind or neighborly way to go about your religious or spiritual lifestyle. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you or be the way you want them to; you can't always get what you want, and most importantly, you can't target a group of people that are different from you because their "morality" may not align with your own. That is extremely self-centered and selfish. If you don't approve of gay marriage or anything related to that, fine, you don't have to get one. If you want to voice your opinion about it, that's fine! But pushing your disapproval far enough to ensure that other people legally CANNOT do what you disapprove of--that, to me, is a severe lack of social responsibility and a huge slap in the face to the progress we are making as a global community.

(A side note: I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of the above behavior; "you" is not referring to anyone in particular)

 

 

 

Slightly off-topic but I don't get where that 'being gay is a choice' thing has come from. How in the world are you supposed to choose who you are attracted to?

I could understand not pursuing a relationship with someone as choosing but otherwise, do you force yourself (or 'choose') somehow to not register attractive hormones from the same gender or something...?

 

From my experiences with conservative family members and families of gay friends of mine, I actually think a lot of it has to do with denial or a refusal to acknowledge something an individual is uncomfortable with...oftentimes, people will refer to being gay as a "phase," something that's akin to a passing fad and something that, surely, the person in question will someday snap to their senses and grow out of. I'm not sure if that is a common idea in general, but it seems to be widely-held in my area of the Southern U.S...I suppose some people are so unfamiliar with the idea that they simply cannot imagine it to be a very real thing.

Like most societal issues I am confident that, with the passing of time, it will get better and more and more people will realize it is not something people choose for themselves; perhaps they will even try to understand it better before they make judgments.

[Bubbleline]

I love John and Hank green and their opinions about Gay marriage kinda mirrors everyone's here. They're just a bit more eloquent about it. So here's a video (for anyone who wants to watch) that explains quickly, plainly, and simply, why Gay marriage should be legal, and why us arguing about it is kinda ridiculous.

 

Hank Green!

 

And his equally awesome brother, John Green

[Rebecca~]

"As long as no one is harmed." That's exactly the problem; people on the receiving end of the discrimination ARE being harmed, whether it be through the stripping of the same basic rights straight/cis people have (e.g. getting married, visitation in jail, being allowed to be involved in a partner's medical decisions, etc.) or the emotional, physical, and mental harm that comes with that discrimination, such as the unusually high suicide rates of non-straight/binary teenagers. There are many groups and organizations out there that try to give corrective "therapy" to people that identify as anything other than straight, as well as those that are committed to making sure they NEVER get equal legal protection and rights. That, to me, sounds like people are being harmed in a very significant way.

 

People cannot afford to be apathetic about things like this; whether someone is cisgendered, queer, straight, bisexual, gay, pansexual, WHATEVER, don't you think they should have the same basic rights as everyone else? Why does their orientation make them a lesser individual or a second-class citizen compared to the people that qualify more with society's "norm"? The right to things like having a fair running for jobs, being able to commit themselves to someone they love, and being able to be themselves with their brothers and sisters in arms without fear of legal repercussions (DADT) seem like basic rights that shouldn't be denied to any person. To be indifferent is to allow your apathy to help perpetuate this intolerance and inequality in society.

 

I can understand if people don't AGREE with the "lifestyle," based on religion or whatever other influence they might have, but personal beliefs are no reason to deny a significant portion of the population their rights. I just don't think that's a very kind or neighborly way to go about your religious or spiritual lifestyle. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you or be the way you want them to; you can't always get what you want, and most importantly, you can't target a group of people that are different from you because their "morality" may not align with your own. That is extremely self-centered and selfish. If you don't approve of gay marriage or anything related to that, fine, you don't have to get one. If you want to voice your opinion about it, that's fine! But pushing your disapproval far enough to ensure that other people legally CANNOT do what you disapprove of--that, to me, is a severe lack of social responsibility and a huge slap in the face to the progress we are making as a global community.

(A side note: I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of the above behavior; "you" is not referring to anyone in particular)

 

 

 

 

 

From my experiences with conservative family members and families of gay friends of mine, I actually think a lot of it has to do with denial or a refusal to acknowledge something an individual is uncomfortable with...oftentimes, people will refer to being gay as a "phase," something that's akin to a passing fad and something that, surely, the person in question will someday snap to their senses and grow out of. I'm not sure if that is a common idea in general, but it seems to be widely-held in my area of the Southern U.S...I suppose some people are so unfamiliar with the idea that they simply cannot imagine it to be a very real thing.

Like most societal issues I am confident that, with the passing of time, it will get better and more and more people will realize it is not something people choose for themselves; perhaps they will even try to understand it better before they make judgments.

I wish I could like posts. Thisthisthis.

 

I agree- people seem to be uncomfortable with the idea that people actually are queer, instead of them choosing to be. Perhaps they can differentiate between things that people can't choose (race, sex, etc), and being queer because of that. They can think that racism and sexism are wrong (of course women should be able to vote, of course black people should have all the same rights as everyone else), but queer people? They're just like punks- trying to be different for the sake of being different. They'll grow out of it in the mean time. They don't need rights, because no one is actually gay/trans/etc.

It's wrong though. Sure, some people may choose to be gay. Some women, after having been in abusive relationships find it triggering to be in a heterosexual relationship. Some of them do choose to be in queer relationships. And that's FINE. Whatever makes people happy, I say.

Even if people do choose to be queer, it doesn't mean they aren't people, are deserve to have all the same rights as het people. People can still get married if they 'choose' to have punk clothes, after all.

[khaos]

All right I've stated my opinion here before, but it's changed, so I'll state my new one.

 

I don't support gay marriage or homosexuality, nor am I against it. I'm Christian, but I don't go around to homosexuals saying that it's wrong, you should change, or whatever. Basically, if they don't bother us, i don't bother them

[Rebecca~]

All right I've stated my opinion here before, but it's changed, so I'll state my new one.

 

I don't support gay marriage or homosexuality, nor am I against it. I'm Christian, but I don't go around to homosexuals saying that it's wrong, you should change, or whatever. Basically, if they don't bother us, i don't bother them

Why don't you support it? The bible says nothing about gay marriage not being allowed.

 

EDIT: And to be honest, I am bothered by the fact that you don't think I deserve basic human rights.

[khaos]

One of the reasons is because I am raised in a family who thinks gays are wrong. I quote my father here: "They're all stupid people." While I don't agree with that, I don't completely approve/support it either.

Another reason is because I just really don't care. It doesn't really affect me, and I seriously doubt it will.

 

AND I also apologize for my statements when I first posted, I was being inconsiderate.

 

And to be honest, I am bothered by the fact that you don't think I deserve basic human rights.

 

Wait, what? I never said that, or implied it as far as I know.

[Rebecca~]

One of the reasons is because I am raised in a family who thinks gays are wrong. I quote my father here: "They're all stupid people." While I don't agree with that, I don't completely approve/support it either.

Another reason is because I just really don't care. It doesn't really affect me, and I seriously doubt it will.

 

AND I also apologize for my statements when I first posted, I was being inconsiderate.

 

 

 

Wait, what? I never said that, or implied it as far as I know.

Marriage, and the benefits that come with it are a human right, as far as I am concerned. By not supporting gay marriage, you don't think that queer people should have those rights- and that includes me.

 

I was raised in a family that didn't support gay rights either. I remember, not long after I first started realising that I was queer, my grandparents telling me that gay marriage was wrong. I was twelve or thirteen. I was so gutted. I started wondering if they would even want to see me again once I told them, and if they would ever come to my wedding.

I don't think that being raised in a certain way is an excuse for believing something. I was raised by people that are hugely bigoted in a lot of ways, and I disagree with them on just about everything. I think it's important for people to educate themselve, and not just blindly follow what their parents say.

Not supporting gay marraige is hugely hurtful to queer people. It's like a huge slap in the face. Every time someone tells me I shouldn't be able to get married it's like they're telling me I'm not quite human, that I don't deserve to be happy, that I shouldn't be able to go see my partner in the hospital if she should get sick.

[khaos]

Marriage, and the benefits that come with it are a human right, as far as I am concerned. By not supporting gay marriage, you don't think that queer people should have those rights- and that includes me.

 

I was raised in a family that didn't support gay rights either. I remember, not long after I first started realising that I was queer, my grandparents telling me that gay marriage was wrong. I was twelve or thirteen. I was so gutted. I started wondering if they would even want to see me again once I told them, and if they would ever come to my wedding.

I don't think that being raised in a certain way is an excuse for believing something. I was raised by people that are hugely bigoted in a lot of ways, and I disagree with them on just about everything. I think it's important for people to educate themselve, and not just blindly follow what their parents say.

Not supporting gay marraige is hugely hurtful to queer people. It's like a huge slap in the face. Every time someone tells me I shouldn't be able to get married it's like they're telling me I'm not quite human, that I don't deserve to be happy, that I shouldn't be able to go see my partner in the hospital if she should get sick.

 

Queer people should have those rights. If saying that means I support gay marriage, then yes, I guess you could say I support it.

 

Honestly, it's their lives, I don't care what they do with it. I just don't care.

[Rebecca~]

I don't support it. But I'm not against it. If some people want to be gay and marry a gay person, that's fine. They can be gay if they want to. If saying that means I support gay marriage, then yes, I support it.

 

Honestly, it's their lives, I don't care what they do with it. I just don't care.

I would argue that you do support it, apathetically, then. When people say that they don't support gay marriage, I take that to mean they don't want it to be available. Period.

Though, just saying, most people don't "just want" to be gay. The people whom choose to be gay are in a tiny minority. Most people don't want to be gay, they just are.

[khaos]

I would argue that you do support it, apathetically, then. When people say that they don't support gay marriage, I take that to mean they don't want it to be available. Period.

Though, just saying, most people don't "just want" to be gay. The people whom choose to be gay are in a tiny minority. Most people don't want to be gay, they just are.

(i had fixed that statement.)

 

I am aware of that, I worded it badly.

Ok, I think I'm done stating opinions. I'm done now. :|

[Peppermintc]

Something that really blows my mind is when people say "allow gay marriage" as if a basic civil right like marriage would would NEED to be allowed.