Abortion

[CAV of Gang Green]

Since the topic was being reborn in a different thread, I felt the need to remake this debate so the only posts there can be about that subject only. Not to mention that there are different members now compared to when the original topic was here.

 

What are your thoughts on abortion?

 

For me, I support abortion, provided that there are restrictions. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but here me out. Let's say a 16 year old girl got pregnant. Her parents are likely to disown her because that's apparently how things work nowadays, and she'll be out on her own. She won't have enough money to care for the child, and the father ran away. What is she suppose to do? Give birth to the child and have no money to care for it, simply because abortion is "a mortal sin against god"? Or is she going to have an abortion, and the problem is solved? The latter is going to be an obvious choice (if she has the money of course). Granted, she shouldn't have done what she did, but it's too late to turn back.

 

However, there should rules. I read a story about a person whom had 11 abortions in the past 10 years. That is unacceptable. Therefore, I suggest guidelines. If you abuse the right to abortion, then the right should be taken away from you.

 

And no, I don't really care about China's decision to abort only girls. Because there's nothing I can do about that. In the end, it's so they can make money off of boys being able to do farm work, and work in factories. I can't do anything about it, because at the end of the day, it's their choice. Granted it's a wrong choice, but what can I do about it? What can you do about it? Nothing really.

 

Discuss.

[jesse_rocket]

I pretty much agree with you, but with a bit more of a pro-life bent.

 

Morally, I am opposed to abortion. When, in my late teens, I found out that I was pregnant, there was no question in my mind that I had to face up to the fact that there was a tiny little life that I had created, growing inside me, and wholly unplanned and somewhat inconvenient as it was, it was a minuscule human-to-be that I had caused to exist, I had to take look after it. I honestly can't begin to comprehend any other mindset held by someone in a similar situation. The selfishness of "but having a baby will harm my career/studies" or "I'm just so young, I want to be able to go to parties" or even "my boyfriend says he'll leave me if I don't get rid of it" type excuses, they make me quite angry.

 

There are situations where I think abortion should be allowed, the obvious one is to victims of rape, and also for some medical reasons, but the bigger reason I believe abortion should be an option is because regardless of legality, women are always going to want to get rid of unwanted babies. However much I might disagree with their reasons, legal, regulated abortions are a far better alternative to...the really quite horrific, brutal methods women used to go through before abortion was legalized.

 

What I would prefer to see are more efforts through family-planning counselling, before the option of abortion is raised, towards convincing women to go through with the few months of the inconvenience of pregnancy, and then either see how they feel when they feel that fist kick, or see a little heartbeat on an ultrasound scan, when it becomes really clear that this isn't just a "mistake", but a real human. And if they still don't want the child, of course, there's adoption. I know plenty of people who can't have kids who are desperate to adopt.

[Secre]

I am without a shadow of a doubt of a massively pro-choice opinion. I know alot of people will disagree with me, but here's my two bob on the matter.

 

As far as I am concerned it is always the woman's right to choose. If I had got pregnant during school or uni I would have aborted because I was not ready, and I have no intention of having children until I am able to support them and I feel that I am ready. It is the womans choice and I fully support that.

 

I consider the foetus to be a parasite inside a female up until the point where it can survive on it's own. And that's where my views change. Englands abortion rule state that after the foetus is 24 weeks it is far more difficult to get an abortion. I disagree with that and think it should be lower. At 22 weeks the foetus can feasibly survive outside of the mothers womb. And at that point I cannot morally consider it a parasite, and so I cannot consider abortion a reasonable option after that point.

 

However, exceptions do apply. Severe disabilities, risk of life to child or mother, and rape. Those would be the big exceptions. But for those far more heavy regulations need to be in place to make sure they are not abused.

 

But yeah, there's my thoughts.

[Divya Bean]

I consider the foetus to be a parasite inside a female up until the point where it can survive on it's own. And that's where my views change. Englands abortion rule state that after the foetus is 24 weeks it is far more difficult to get an abortion. I disagree with that and think it should be lower. At 22 weeks the foetus can feasibly survive outside of the mothers womb. And at that point I cannot morally consider it a parasite, and so I cannot consider abortion a reasonable option after that point.

 

I completely agree with this. There should definitely be a "time limit" of some sort for the reason above. However, it would all depend upon the situation. Should the woman still want the abortion, even though the child she is carrying is "officially" a child, there should be special circumstances determining that. I think that she should be aware of this, and then make the choice. Yes, I know it might not have much of an impact of being aware, but it does sway people.

 

I overall think that women should be able to choose because it is their right. If they made a wrong decision and want to get an abortion, abortions cost quite a bit. So, they are still getting the, "You made the decision, you get the consequences."

[Unstream]

Yeah, I agree with the general consensus so far. I'm pro-choice, because I believe a woman should have right to control her own body, but if I got a girl pregnant I would not want her to get an abortion because I'm morally opposed to it.

 

I definitely think there should be some restrictions though. Such as no abortions after a set amount of time after a pregnancy. Five months maybe? Plenty of time to make a decision, and wait too long more people will consider the baby to be alive.

 

Plus, I know plenty of people don't give a crap about God. So why do we go around making sure they follow His laws?

[CAV of Gang Green]

I definitely think there should be some restrictions though. Such as no abortions after a set amount of time after a pregnancy. Five months maybe? Plenty of time to make a decision, and wait too long more people will consider the baby to be alive.

 

Plus, I know plenty of people don't give a crap about God. So why do we go around making sure they follow His laws?

 

A time limit is good (even though it sounds more like a video game :P). But they should also limit how many abortions a person can get in a lifetime. Once again bringing up the lady whom has had an abortion 11 times, if you abuse the right given to you, it should be taken away, because enough is enough.

 

Exactly. For the most part I think that the only reason why people would be against abortion is because it's a sin. Being an athiest, I don't have to worry too much about sinning.

[Kuroida]

I support the choice for abortion and I especially like the idea of the "time limit"

 

It's the woman's choice whether to keep the baby or not and if they want it aborted then who are we to go against it?

 

Like if I were to get preganant right now I would immediatly have it aborted. I'm not ready. I don't want it. If the kid were to be born how would he feel to have a parent that didn't want him and couldn't support him?

 

china's decision to abort girls logically makes sense and is valid. Besides. You guys already complain that there are too many asians in the world already...now you're complaining that there aren't enough? o.0

 

.....

 

And it's funny because just as I'm done typing this my dad says "kids are so expensive!" XD

[hrtbrk]

I'm not entirely sure if abortion is the best option simply because you are not ready. If you're not ready you shouldn't be doing the act that can create babies without using proper protection. You are responsible for your own actions.

 

Besides, there are many families out there that would like to have a child but can't and would love to adopt your baby.

 

Naturally, the only time I would support abortion is if sexual abuse is involved or if something was wrong medically (my friend's baby was growing on her tubes or something - of course they had to abort the pregnancy but that's another story that has a crazy ending).

 

I used to believe the "it's her body" philosophy but then I watched an episode of 16 and Pregnant. At first, the girls parents were pressuring her for an abortion. She decided against it at the last second. Then her parents started forcing her into adoption because they didn't want to take care of the baby and wanted their daughter to have a "teenage life". She again wavered back and forth but what was so heartbreaking was that the father wanted to keep the baby - yet he had no rights. It was so sad. In the end, the girl basically gave in to her parents wishes and they had to sign their baby away.

 

It's his child, too.

[CAV of Gang Green]

You guys already complain that there are too many asians in the world already...now you're complaining that there aren't enough? o.0

 

I never said such a thing. I find those kind of statements rather racist, and I hate racism. I would like to find the person that said this.

 

I'm not entirely sure if abortion is the best option simply because you are not ready. If you're not ready you shouldn't be doing the act that can create babies without using proper protection. You are responsible for your own actions.

 

Yes, but in the event that the protection breaks and it wasn't intentional, then what?

[hrtbrk]

There's more ways to protect yourself from getting pregnant than just using a condom o_O

[CAV of Gang Green]

What if they ran out of birth control and didn't realize it, or it didn't work?

[jesse_rocket]

It's the casualness that some people will go through with it that bothers me.

 

I was somewhat shocked to see an advert for what I think was an over-the-counter morning after pill. Which admittedly isn't abortion in the purest sense, but is at least an early-stage termination. The advert was cheaply animated, all in girl-friendly pale pastel tones of pink and lilac, and euphemistically asked "are you late?". Then the cartoon girl walked into a chemist to a smiling pharmacist, who handed her the pill, and then her "little problem" was all solved.

 

But the thing is, she wasn't just "late". She was pregnant, for goodness sakes, that's a pretty big thing, it requires some thinking about. And then with one little pill, everything was erased like it never happened.

 

I don't like the fact that life has been cheapened to such an extent, is all.

[Secre]

There's more ways to protect yourself from getting pregnant than just using a condom o_O

 

Yes, there are. But I rely solely on the condom as it is considered an effective method of birth control. I do not want to take the pill and I have no interest in the implant. The condom is a contraceptive, and if it breaks then I have taken all reasonable precautions not to get pregnant. However, I would be straight down to Boots for the morning after pill.

 

Jesse_Rocket - the morning after pill is different to abortion. It is erasing the chances of getting pregnant before you are pregnant. The early stage abortion pill is abortion, but as I said I have no issue with that either.

[hrtbrk]

What if they ran out of birth control and didn't realize it, or it didn't work?

I don't think you just "run out" of birth control. It's monthly and you have to take it at the same time each day in order for it to be effective.

 

Again, there are many other forms of protection out there, so if you cannot remember to take birth control each day, women can get an IUD, take a shot, among other things to block the stuff from the other stuff (LOL) OR if you really cannot resist the urge, you can get a morning after pill if you're so worried about a broken condom or if you forgot your pill one day.

 

However, if you are using birth control and a condom and still get pregnant... well... I call that fate. lol

 

EDIT: NINJA'd by Secre and Jessie while typing this :D

 

However, I would be straight down to Boots for the morning after pill.

 

Jesse_Rocket - the morning after pill is different to abortion. It is erasing the chances of getting pregnant before you are pregnant.

Agreed 100%. I would do the same thing if it came to that. I also don't see the morning after pill as abortion. Plus, you only have like 24 hours or something to take it. *shrug*

[Secre]

Again, there are many other forms of protection out there, so if you cannot remember to take birth control each day, women can get an IUD, take a shot among other things OR if you really cannot resist the urge, you can get a morning after pill if you're so worried about a broken condom or if you forgot your pill one day.

 

However, if you are using birth control and a condom and still get pregnant... well... I call that fate. lol

 

EDIT: NINJA'd while typing this :D

 

I still don't see why only using a condom can be seen as irresponsible. It is birth control. Yes, there are other forms, but they are not 100% either.

 

I see no reason to use more than one form of contraceptive, and after using that contraceptive if I managed to get pregnant and not realise something had gone wrong then I would get an early abortion because I am not ready to have a child. I would see it as I had taken precautions, it went wrong, and as I said previously - it is a parasite.

[hrtbrk]

Oh no, I'm not saying it's irresponsible to only use a condom, just that if you're worried about it breaking (which I've honestly never experienced) there are other ways of prevention. Of course there is an obvious answer if you are in the predicament of it breaking but I don't think it's appropriate for TDN haha :laughingsmiley:

[Macabre]

I'm pro-life, but I think presenting alternative choices to abortion (in cases where the mother's health isn't in danger) and supporting women who are facing unplanned pregnancies is a WAY more effective way to bring down abortion rates than banning abortions ever will.

That's why I'm involved with my local pregnancy support center, which supplies women in need with pregnancy supplies and things they'll need if they decide to keep the baby. Not all pro-lifers are crazy Westboro Baptist Church-esque fundamentalists that will yell and rave at you that you're going to hell if you abort the child. :)

 

I consider the foetus to be a parasite inside a female up until the point where it can survive on it's own. And that's where my views change. Englands abortion rule state that after the foetus is 24 weeks it is far more difficult to get an abortion. I disagree with that and think it should be lower. At 22 weeks the foetus can feasibly survive outside of the mothers womb. And at that point I cannot morally consider it a parasite...

 

Scientifically, a fetus isn't a parasite at all. By definition a parasite must be of a different species than the host, and the mother's body changes to nurture the fetus. This never happens with a parasite.

[Secre]

Scientifically, a fetus isn't a parasite at all. By definition a parasite must be of a different species than the host, and the mother's body changes to nurture the fetus. This never happens with a parasite.

 

Lol, I have to admit I was talking emotively rather than scientifically! It can't support itself and until it can I do not see it as a potentially living being. It's why I change my view once I see the foetus as a potentially viable life form and therefore believe that abortion is not an option except in extreme circumstances.

 

Emotively it can be seen as a parasite because it is living off it's host, and cannot survive without its host. Scientifically you are completeley correct!

[Cornflakes]

I was actually thinking of starting a new topic for this debate too, but I thought better of it because I knew that it would make me upset.

 

Job well done.

 

I just wanted to say that I am deeply disappointed in humanity, or lack thereof.

I would say a lot more but that's all I'm going to say.

[Seliphra]

But they should also limit how many abortions a person can get in a lifetime. Once again bringing up the lady whom has had an abortion 11 times, if you abuse the right given to you, it should be taken away

My mother knew a woman who's husband refused to wear a condom because birth control went "against God" then forced her to have an abortion if she got pregnant. I don't think limiting the number you can have is feesable simply because women will do what they have to if it is outlawed.

 

Personally I couldn't abort a child, there ARE options other then abortion, but I do believe that women have the ultimate say in what should happen to their own body. I mean, yeah, it's the guys kid too, and if he wants to raise the child and is willing to support it it's sweet, but it isn't HIM that has to carry it for nine months and deal with potentially life-threatening consequences. I think though that the issue of abortion would go away if we dealt with the root of the problem. They are ignorance and violence against women, eliminate those, and the rate of unexpected pregnancy would drop drastically.

[CAV of Gang Green]

I just wanted to say that I am deeply disappointed in humanity, or lack thereof.

I would say a lot more but that's all I'm going to say.

 

It's not like this is a genocide. I'm saddened by the greed of humanity, but abortion is an option that is the woman's choice. Why you are disappointed in humanity is beyond me. Please explain so I can have a clearer view.

 

My mother knew a woman who's husband refused to wear a condom because birth control went "against God" then forced her to have an abortion if she got pregnant. I don't think limiting the number you can have is feesable simply because women will do what they have to if it is outlawed.

 

This man contradicted himself. Both are aparantly "against god".

[Unstream]

Y'know apparently many Catholics think it's a sin to use contraceptives? I dunno, just thought about that when I read Seliphra's post about them being against God.

And CAV is right about that. Does seem a bit contradictory, no? :laughingsmiley:

 

I dunno, I don't like the orphanage option. Aren't there already enough orphans in the world? If a couple really wanted a child, they should be able to get them if their background is clean.

 

Cornflakes, I'm sorry, but just because some people see the world in a different way than you do doesn't mean we lack humanity. I can hardly say that's a fair judgment of us because you never really tried to look at it from both sides of the argument (or so it seems).

 

Personally, I'd rather advocate birth control over abortion. Maybe if sex ed taught how to use birth control instead of abstinence, then maybe there'd be less of a need for abortion? (Because I still think it's morally wrong - I just don't believe it's right to force my beliefs on others).

[Seliphra]

This man contradicted himself. Both are aparantly "against god".

It was a method of control, he was an abuser and that was his form of abuse. She managed to leave him eventually but unfortunately when she tried to have a child with her second husband she kept miscarrying because her womb had been ruined.

[Kuroida]

I never said such a thing. I find those kind of statements rather racist, and I hate racism. I would like to find the person that said this.

 

 

Of course, it was a huge generalization. I'm just severely peeved at other huge generalizations. >_> I'm also peeved at the fact that some people can't seem to get out of the mindset that the US is always right and that what they value has to be the same for everyone and every country.

[Rose_682]

I have mixed feelings about abortion.

 

I can't have children due to the fact that it would be a severe health risk to me, thanks to a number of medical reasons that I won't go into. Suffice it to say that a long time ago, I decided I didn't want children. Consciously made the decision, based on facts. Lots and lots of facts. But I can't deny that I want kids, someday. Not now, of course, but someday. And knowing I can't have my own without a rather high risk of death, as well as the known complications that would occur after childbirth if I did survive, and the risk to the child, sometimes makes me feel angry at people who either don't use birth control, or sleep around a lot, or otherwise irresponsibly get pregnant, and then go and destroy the life they created. The life they have the ABILITY and HEALTH to create. It makes me sick sometimes. It's hard, knowing what I want, and knowing I can never have it, and seeing people around me simply throwing their gift away.

 

However, sometimes, I understand it. Rape victims, people who, like myself, would be seriously affected, and possibly even die from trying to keep the child, and those who are merely children themselves. I truly believe though, that for the health of women, it's a good thing it is legal. Because a lot of people got infections, or died, from seriously botched abortions when they were illegal. And while I hate seeing people who could very well support a child, simply destroy it before it's even been born, I would feel terrible if abortion were illegal, and those very same women attempted to get one anyway, and became ill, or had other severe complications due to not having it done right.

 

What gets me, is that some women don't realise that it's a gift to be able to have children. They see children as an inconvenience, or a burden. Children can make you smile, they can make you laugh, they can make you cry. A lot of elderly people I know that never had children regret it. They wish they had the opportunity to do it all over again.

 

When I'm ready, I hope to be able to adopt a child from someone who believes that that life means enough to save. :/