Trayvon Martin

[Secre]

Not coming from the US myself I'd be interested in what people's reactions have been to the shooting of Trayvon Martin on 28th February and the fact that his killer a 26 year old white man has not been put on charges because of Florida's stand your ground law. It seems he was shot merely for the crime of being black and yet the police are unable to do anything about it.

 

To me this highlights America's desperate need for both stricter gun laws and stricter rules on how these can be carried. The fact that a white man can shoot an unarmed black boy in 'self defence' even though he had nothing more on him than a bag of skittles is ridiculous but the fact that he hasn't been pulled up on charges is horrifying.

 

http://socyberty.com/crime/where-is-the-justice-for-trayvon-martin/

 

http://socyberty.com/crime/trayvons-killer-walking-free-because-of-the-colour-of-his-skin/

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Well, his shooter is technically "white" but is really Hispanic, another minority in the country. So it seems inaccurate to say that the police are protecting him because he's white.

 

That said...

 

It makes no sense whatsoever.

I can understand Zimmerman shooting Trayvon because he's black. Well, no, I can't really understand it at all. But some people are scary, and I understand that these people exist.

I can understand that some police officers are racist. So I can understand them doing racist things...and trying to hide them.

 

I'm confused, though, as to how they could NOT prosecute Zimmerman, and then think they can get away with it. Really?

 

 

 

In the end, though, there is very little to debate about. At least, I hope so. I would hope that nobody would think it's okay that an adult can follow an innocent boy, chase him, kill him in cold blood, and get away with it. This is one of those that's black and white--there was no way to construe this as "self-defense". There's no such thing as self-defense against someone who never even looked at you, threatened you, put a finger on you, or even tried to go near you.

[hrtbrk]

In the end, though, there is very little to debate about. At least, I hope so. I would hope that nobody would think it's okay that an adult can follow an innocent boy, chase him, kill him in cold blood, and get away with it. This is one of those that's black and white--there was no way to construe this as "self-defense". There's no such thing as self-defense against someone who never even looked at you, threatened you, put a finger on you, or even tried to go near you.

 

This! This man thought he was some sort of vigilante, and was looking for some trouble. In the end, he found it by hunting down Trayvon. It's disgusting.

 

The most recent report I've heard was that Zimmerman disabled all his phones and has moved. Excellent job, Florida.

 

I'd also like to say that this specific police department isn't racist in this situation, and are following the law put out by the state, but I've heard some very questionable things about them now that this has come into light, so maybe there is some truth to that claim... which is also sad lol

[Trig]

I heard this on the Spanish news so to be honest I don't know the FULL story (I don't understand a lot of Spanish) but I think I know enough to make my opinion. First of all I CANNOT understand why someone would shoot someone else because of their skin colour, sorry Karina. It seems like a ridiculous thing to do and to think that you can get away with it is another shocking thing. Personally I'm not a big believer in guns, and maybe that's cause I live in Canada, but who knows. Either way, if you are going to use a gun then use it in self defense- not against some harmless kid with a bag of Skittles. I think this is extremely sad and tragic and I feel sorry for Trayvon as his life was taken away from him way to early for absolutely no reason. This case just proves how harmful racism is and I hope they find the person and put him in jail.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

First of all I CANNOT understand why someone would shoot someone else because of their skin colour, sorry Karina.

 

Hey, don't apologize to me. I can't understand it either--I just understand that they do. Racism is a serious mental disease that needs to get treated.

 

Personally I'm not a big believer in guns, and maybe that's cause I live in Canada, but who knows. Either way, if you are going to use a gun then use it in self defense- not against some harmless kid with a bag of Skittles.

 

We could really start another debate about gun laws. That could be interesting. I believe it's okay to own guns, but that there DOES need to be a background check before someone can obtain one, and guns DO need to be registered so if someone is convicted of a crime, their guns can be removed accordingly. (And so if they find out what gun did a crime, they can trace it back to the person.)

 

In this case, Zimmerman should NOT have passed any kind of background check. He's been convicted in the past of assaulting a police officer--which makes it all the more confusing now why the police are PROTECTING him. He should never have been allowed to buy a gun to begin with, and if he didn't have a gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

[keiwo]

I read that Zimmerman had placed forty something calls to emergency services in the past year (or some similar span of time) while on duty, most of them regarding black males - he clearly had some serious issues and should never have been in such a job in the first place. Some people are just sick. It's disgusting that nothing was done to punish Zimmerman and that he has essentially gotten away scot-free.

[billpika_x8]

America: The only 1-st world country where you can kill minors in cold blood and get away with it!

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I read that Zimmerman had placed forty something calls to emergency services in the past year (or some similar span of time) while on duty, most of them regarding black males - he clearly had some serious issues and should never have been in such a job in the first place. Some people are just sick. It's disgusting that nothing was done to punish Zimmerman and that he has essentially gotten away scot-free.

 

I've heard some people claim that Zimmerman isn't racist, and whatever the reason was, it wasn't because Trayvon was black. So I guess all these phone calls about black males--well, all those black males looked suspicious, but it had nothing to do with the fact that they were black! They just, uh...looked suspicious because of...uh...something else! Yeah!

 

No, but really, I've heard people say there's no evidence that this WAS racist. And I wish that when I heard them, I'd known what I know now.

 

I just listened to the recording of the phone call. Zimmerman used a racial slur. It was not the n-word, but a different racial slur. I will not repeat what he said for obvious reasons, but he definitely used a racial slur. So anyone claiming that Zimmerman is NOT racist is absolutely proven to be wrong.

[silbert]

Well here's the legal standpoint - the law on self-defence revolves around a subjective test, as opposed to objective

 

- subjective - whether you truly and genuinely believed that you were going to suffer bodily harm

- objective - whether or not a reasonable onlooker would think that you would suffer bodily harm

 

Obviously, your actions also have to be proportional, i.e. you cannot shoot someone who's 10 feet away and using words to intimidate you. Another factor is that the action has to be immediate, or within a certain time frame - you can't invoke the defence if the assailant is done beating you up, turns away, then you shoot him

 

The "stand your ground" defence basically means what it says - you don't have a duty to retreat / avoid the conflict if you can

 

I feel that self-defence is horribly grey - most of the time stuff occurs in the "heat of the moment" type of situations. Bearing that in mind, I'd rather the test be subjective - If I honestly and genuinely believed that someone was going to kill me, I should have a right to respond. It's because of the subjective nature that Zimmerman got away - plus of course the whole no other witnesses thing,

[eeveecutie]

he needs face the justice system enough said!!

[Welcome Back Apathy]

There have been many updates on this case since. I may bring them up later, but for now, I want to rage and scream about something related.

 

My aunt just posted on facebook a status complaining about how the media tries to incite racial tensions. She doesn't believe racism is a real thing anymore, so why does the media claim that certain things are racist?

 

Right about now, I want to get stabby. Right about now, I want to reply in all caps: THIS COMING FROM THE WOMAN WHOSE SON THOUGHT MY SISTER'S WEDDING WAS A GREAT PLACE TO TELL JOKES ABOUT MURDERING BLACK PEOPLE?

[Zooba]

I've heard some people claim that Zimmerman isn't racist, and whatever the reason was, it wasn't because Trayvon was black.

I'm not saying that I believe this, but just as an aside, this is kinda possible. The fact that the guy made a lot of phone calls about suspicious black people could be due to the fact that it was a white-majority neighborhood. I mean if you know that there are only like two black families in the neighborhood, you'd report black people you didn't recognize if they were lurking at night or something right? Realistically, if you only see a glimpse of somebody at night, their skin/hair color (and their clothes, which are irrelevant as they can change them) are basically all you see. I don't know much about how a neighborhood watch is supposed to work exactly. This doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer, but he may not be a racist murderer.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I've heard some people claim that Zimmerman isn't racist, and whatever the reason was, it wasn't because Trayvon was black.

 

I'm not saying that I believe this, but just as an aside, this is kinda possible. The fact that the guy made a lot of phone calls about suspicious black people could be due to the fact that it was a white-majority neighborhood. I mean if you know that there are only like two black families in the neighborhood, you'd report black people you didn't recognize if they were lurking at night or something right? Realistically, if you only see a glimpse of somebody at night, their skin/hair color (and their clothes, which are irrelevant as they can change them) are basically all you see. I don't know much about how a neighborhood watch is supposed to work exactly. This doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer, but he may not be a racist murderer.

 

The same people who say that have a lot they have to defend. "But he didn't use a racial slur when talking to the police! He, uh...he said GOON instead!" Seriously. The argument that Zimmerman is not racist is flimsy. I heard the word. I know what I heard. He said it. You don't even THINK to use that word unless you most certainly are racist.

 

And if you're reporting black people simply because it is a majority-white neighborhood...that absolutely is racist.

[Emily]

*sigh* can anyone else say 41 shots? (Bruce Springsteen. Google it). Unfortuntely, when something like this happens and involves 2 people of different races, we'll always have to wonder if being of different races was a factor. Additionally, with no witnesses, we can never know what really happened. It's unfortunate that someone so young had to die, regardless if he did something to incite the action or not.

 

In relation to the idea of stricter gun laws, I just think that handguns should be outlawed completely. Hunters use rifles. There's no need for hand guns. They're too easily concealed and too difficult to regulate. They shouldn't be produced and shouldn't be sold. From the "self defense" argument, if no one had a hand gun, then no one would need to protect themselves from them. Ahhh, idealism.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

In relation to the idea of stricter gun laws, I just think that handguns should be outlawed completely. Hunters use rifles. There's no need for hand guns. They're too easily concealed and too difficult to regulate. They shouldn't be produced and shouldn't be sold. From the "self defense" argument, if no one had a hand gun, then no one would need to protect themselves from them. Ahhh, idealism.

 

I tend to agree with that. The argument from the other side, though, is that "IF YOU OUTLAW GUNS, ONLY CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS!" Fun stuff, right? They do have a point--if someone wants a gun they can conceal, they could get one somehow. Someone who wants to abide by the law, then, will NOT be able to protect themselves.

 

However, even if that's true, it would definitely cut down on the number of times people would NEED to be able to protect themselves. And let's face it--how many law-abiding people in places like these actually carry around concealed weapons on a regular basis to protect themselves? So I think that banning handguns would be a good idea. What would you do for police officers, though? Would they be the only exception? Would they carry a different kind of gun instead? Would they not have guns at all, only tasers and pepper spray?

 

 

*******************

Now, on a different note: the people who are still trying to insist that George Zimmerman is not racist against black people are coming up with all sorts of interesting excuses. They are saying, for example, that he said "GOONS" instead of the racial slur.

 

I don't believe this for a second. Nobody says "goons" right after an expletive. "Goons" is one of those words you use if you're a little old lady who doesn't swear.

 

So I am compiling a list of more plausible explanations for this part of the phone call. Anyone want to join in the fun?

*He tripped over a raccoon.

*He was thinking about how much he hates "Colors of the Wind". (Actually, you know, this isn't plausible, because Judy Kuhn is AMAZING!)

*He hates whale hunters, and the weapons with which they kill their prey.

*He's not anti-black people! He's anti-BUTTERFLY--so he's doing everything in his power to make sure caterpillars stay caterpillars.

[Zooba]

So I am compiling a list of more plausible explanations for this part of the phone call. Anyone want to join in the fun?

*He tripped over a raccoon.

*He was thinking about how much he hates "Colors of the Wind". (Actually, know, this isn't plausible, because Judy Kuhn is AMAZING!)

*He hates whale hunters, and the weapons with which they kill their prey.

 

*He's not anti-black people! He's anti-BUTTERFLY--so he's doing everything in his power to make sure caterpillars stay caterpillars.

 

LOL :laughingsmiley: he was flashed by a mandrill baboon!

Umm...he was hit in the face by a giant balloon

Ooh! He saw a hot air balloon.

 

Yeah, didn't read the bit about that word being used. I agree w/ you completely now.

[MisplacedDessert]

Who says that he used the word goon? When i heard the tape I didn't hear anything that rhymes with goon. There were a few jumbled phrases but I couldn't make anything out of it.

After having to look up "george zimmerman goon" I'm assuming to know what word you guys are saying he said; and I honestly thought the only meaning that word had was as redneck/southern jargon for raccoon.

The prosecutors in the case have determined that he did not use a racial slur, so (unless they are racists too and a trying to cover up a crime, and if there is evidence supporting that) then he did not use a racial slur (http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutors-zimmerman-did-not-racial-slur-212258583.html).

 

He was initially arrested and questioned about Martin’s death. I think he was not initially charged with anything because the police did not have any evidence that refuted Zimmerman’s claim that he had killed martin in self defense, since he had a busted nose and a gash on the back of his head and witnesses who say that there was a fight between them ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83F19Y20120416 ).

 

I understand that just because there was a fight does not mean that he killed in self defense, but since Zimmerman had a gun I do not understand why he would beat Martin and run the risk of Martin getting the gun in the fight.

 

I do not know if it was in self defense or if it was racially motivated cold blooded murder and I don’t think any of us (at least right now) know enough to say one way or the other; but I'm not going to call this a hate crime until he is convicted of it because of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

 

I don’t know anything about the multiple phone calls mostly about black males.; but I had heard that there had been break ins in the neighborhood, and I heard he was some sort of leading member in their neighborhood watch group so it would make sense that he would making a lot of phone calls to the police. And it’s also not a stretch of the imagination to think that, if there were alot of break ins int he neighborhood, it could be one person breaking into houses and if that person happened to be black then of course most of those phone calls would be about black males. But this just conjecture, because I don't know much about the break ins any further than that they happend Where did you hear about these phone calls?