Russ

Okay, I'm honestly not sure how much of a debate there's even going to be because there's near-unanimous agreement on this topic on virtually every online community of which I have ever been a part, and I doubt that that'll be too different here... But whatever!
 
I personally think it's ~ludicrous~ that gays aren't allowed to get their marriage on in so many first-world countries. It's just ridiculous that outdated religious prejudices still play such a large part in how minorities are perceived in places that are supposed to be advanced, and downright disgusting that oppressing and dehumanizing these minorities is basically considered the norm.
 
Anybody strongly agree or disagree?

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

My home state of Illinois passed a gay marriage bill yesterday. State number fifteen, baby!!

Here is my thought process on this. When the death penalty is applied, I see its role as being to remove the individual from society entirely. Regardless of whether one agrees with it, its goal, I think, is to say that someone's crime(s) is/are so heinous that the only fitting punishment is to get rid of that individual. That is what it accomplishes. Again, whether or not that's a good or bad aim is certainly very debatable, but that's what the aim is.
 
If somebody is raped as a result of committing a crime, all that does is cause immense pain to them. It accomplishes nothing other than putting that person through suffering. The ultimate result of rape is specifically that the victim is harmed, and nothing else.
 
I don't know that I would call either one "better" or "worse" than the other, necessarily, because I don't see what you would take into account to make a qualitative comparison like that.. but when it comes to what is "cruel and unusual", I would say that the death penalty -- which has a specific and purposeful objective of removing someone from society (again, it is obviously debatable whether that is a good or fair objective) -- does not fit that label as much as rape, which exists solely to cause harm and suffering to another human being with no end goal whatsoever.
 
 
I am not using that article to make a decision on every case of rape.
I have had an opinion on this for a while and reading that article made me decide to post the topic. I am not using it to argue anything; it was just what happened to spark my mind to start this topic.
 
I do not think literally anyone in the entire world would tell you that the death penalty, or any penalty, should be imposed for rape or for any other crime "without any facts."
 
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I will say that on this topic I definitely understand and respect opposing opinions. ^_^
I am not going to say that anyone who does not share my viewpoint 'has no empathy' -- it is a matter of how much empathy one has for different people, as well as many other values.
 
To explain my opinion, since all I really did was state it in the OP without totally expanding -- I have never been sexually violated in any way (for which I feel very fortunate.) I can't say "If I were a victim of rape, I would feel X, Y, and Z" because I cannot possibly put myself into someone else's shoes like that, but knowing what I know about myself and knowing how stories like that make me feel, I believe that if I were a victim of rape, the knowledge that the person who did that to me was able to walk on the streets after some duration of time -- if not like everyone else can (because, as passiflora pointed out, we do treat registered sex offenders differently [in the U.S., where I live] than other people once they are out), still among everyone else -- would be unbearable and I would never be able to get closure. Or if it was done to someone incredibly close to me, like a best friend or a sister. It would enrage me that they were still allowed to have some degree of autonomy and intermingle with other people without those people knowing what a sick [inappropriate-expletive-of-your-choice] that rapist is. I could be wrong on this because I cannot fully put myself into the shoes of a rape victim or a rape victim's loved one, but I believe that this is how I would feel. Just imagining a family member or one of my close friends being raped, and imagining that I knew the person who did it was able to walk free.. even picturing it makes me sick. So if I had to live it, then I imagine I'd feel the same way. That is what my stance is based on: the absolute revulsion I have towards rapists and (my educated guess of) how I would feel if rape directly affected my life.
 
I recognize, however, that this is a very emotionally charged viewpoint and one that may contradict some other ideals that I have, so "rapists should be permanently removed from society via lifetime incarceration or the death penalty" is not a stance I'm as solid on as some others I hold.. but it is still, for now, my stance, because I do not think emotions should be left out of the debate entirely when it comes to an issue as inherently emotional as that of sexual assault.

I hesitate to respond, as I am not emotionally charged over this topic and I really don't want to upset anyone else, or further upset you. I very much respect your view, and I apologize that I upset or hurt you. I should have chosen my own words with more care - I didn't see how they could be interpreted as an insult, and again, I apologize. I could go into the Biblical backing of my point of view, but as you said, religious interpretations don't really have a place in a political discussion, or at least they shouldn't. So, I will just explain with: I was trying to respond to the person above my post who was saying that people who claim to be of faith trash homosexuality. What I wanted to get across was that, while my personal beliefs are that I do not view homosexuality as something that is "right", I believe that your choice to marry someone is your own choice, and it's not anyone else's business as to what you choose to do. If I were to interfere or persecute you for your choice to marry, then it would be just as wrong as someone trying to interfere or persecute me for my choice to marry. It doesn't matter who we've decided to marry. This is what I meant by the power of freewill and that it's wrong to persecute someone for their marriage decisions. It works both ways. Unfortunately, we live in a society that still seems to think there's a place for this debate (as I believe you were saying already).
 
(I do not hate anyone, let alone people who go into marriage with intentions of love and devotion for their partner - I'm not saying this to cover anything up. It's simply a statement of how I feel.)

I think the death penalty may be a separate debate altogether, but I'll just make a quick note that I don't agree with it. I think it's also important to keep in mind that the most effective prison systems are not necessarily the ones that punish, but the ones that offer education and teach prisoners to be better people (I can't think of the word, but it helps to integrate them back into society and lowers the rates of re-conviction).
 
 
 
Don't forget that in the US at least, the registered sex offender list is public, and I'm assuming all convicted rapists are on it. It's probably quite the punishment for anyone that wants to have a "normal" life again.
 
 
 
This doesn't necessarily reflect my views as I don't have time for a long reply, but just wanted to bring a few things up that might add to the discussion!

If a rapist only gets a slap on the wrist, what is the deterrent? The death penalty is a sharp retribution for ruining someone else's life. It is simple justice to punish someone for literally destroying their specifically chosen victim's life. Such a criminal act is worthy of death, which is a shorter lived pain than the victim's anyway. To further that point: What if they get 5 years in prison? So what? They get free rent, food, shelter, tv, gym access, outdoor access, and we pay for it. Then guess what happens? They get released from the free hotel and come and rape YOUR children. You can't act like a pacifist just because it may not have happened to you particularly. If you have empathy, that's when the death penalty comes into play. A criminal like that lacks empathy, and that makes them a danger to all that is good. They need to be removed. The ones who are removed need to be the example for others to not follow in such disgusting footsteps.

I have meant to post a topic like this quite a few times, but have either not gotten around to it or have avoided it because it could potentially be a really emotionally charged topic. But after reading this article, I think it's a question worth asking.. what do you think should be the punishment for those convicted of rape?
 
As far as I'm concerned, I personally place absolutely zero value on the life of an individual who decides that violating other human beings in that way is how they are going to spend that life. People who do that, in my opinion, should be immediately, swiftly, and permanently removed from civilized society via a non-negotiable life sentence or execution. In my opinion, any subhuman piece of walking rubbish who has the audacity and depravity to do that to another human being does not deserve to breathe and should be killed. But of course there is always the issue of false convictions, so I think that unless there's objective, 100%, guaranteed proof that it happened (a clear an uncoerced confession, photographic/video evidence, something of that nature where it is known that the specific person did that specific act), then the person convicted should just get life imprisonment. I mean, I don't feel okay with the idea of a convicted rapist actually being allowed to take up space on Earth.. but unfortunately that's a necessity to prevent innocent people from being executed, which of course should never, ever happen.
 
Even if you don't support the death penalty, which I totally understand, I just can't fathom why people think that just throwing someone into prison for a couple of years and then allowing them to walk among other human beings is actually a sufficient punishment for this. Cannot understand why sentences are as small as they sometimes are. I don't see a single reason why rapists should be allowed to walk around at all, let alone after just a couple of years. Sickening to think that someone I walk by on the street could be someone who did this.
 
Interested in what other people's stances on this are.
 
(post edited cuz the second half of it turned into a larger font for some reason)

My home state of Illinois passed a gay marriage bill yesterday. State number fifteen, baby!!

I'm single, which I'm pretty much okay with. Past relationships have taught me it's way better to just wait for something that's right than not. I don't really mind the simplicity of being single. Not like I could do anything about it even if I did since I don't know any other gay guys near where I live, but still, I'm content.

Denmark in Europe was the first country in the world to allow gays to be registered partners, and I am proud of that.
 
It is now also legal to get married in a church and obtain exactly the same rights as a couple of opposite sex.
 
I am a Christian, and I know that the bible says, that one man lying with another man is an abomination, and that they should both be killed, but honestly, the bible was not written by God, it was written by people who all claim to have had contact with God, and how many crazy people today is saying that?
 
The God I know loves all men (and women ;) ) equally, regardless of what your sexual preference is.

Love = love. I don't see why same sex couples could not be married.

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

Thank you everyone for the support!
 
For the next week I'll be on vacation with my sister, her best friend, and my mom. My sister and her friend already know so I might try to come out to my mom during that week.. we will see!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!

While I was on vacation with my dad last week, the topic of homosexuality just kind of came up while we were driving in the car one night, and so with a lot of nervousness I told him I was gay. He reacted totally fine which is basically what I expected, but it's still nice to not have to do it anymore and I'm happy that he reacted the way he did.
 
Now I still have to tell my mom and brother.. but still, that's one more family member down!