To zap or not to zap?

[Zephyr]

Hello guys :)

 

After zapping my BD pet for a while, her stats are:

 

Level: 32
Health: 301
Strength: 90
Defence: 52
Move: 74

 

Should I continue zapping her or is it time for her to hit the training school?

[Batman]

Honestly it might be better to keep her as a lab rat and start a new pet if you want to keep them even. Then zap and do the training school simultaneously being sure not to let the level drop to low to get the goes back to zero zap.

 

At this rate you will have to raise the level to 151 before you could start training any of the other stats. If you wanted you could just raise it to the 250 mark to get in the secret training school and raise all of the stats that way as it will probably be cheaper.

[siniri]

I agree that it's better to train and zap together from the beginning. But you can't go back in time, so let's see what the costs are:

 

Level: 32
Health: 301
Strength: 90
Defence: 52
Move: 74

 

You have to raise the level to 151:

32-41: 9 * 5 dubloons or 9 * 2 codestones © = 18C (4/day* = 2 days)

41-81: 40 * 3 codestones = 120C (4/day = 10 days)

81-101: 20 * 4 codestones = 80C (3/day = 7 days)

101-121: 20 * 5C = 100C (3/day = 7 days)

121-151: 30 * 6C = 180C (2/day = 15 days)

Total for level: 498 codestones, 41 days

 

Then strength and defence (and HP) each to 302 to catch up:

strength 90-302: 212 * 6C = 1272C (2/day = 106 days)

defence 52-302: 250 * 6C = 1500C (2/day = 125 days)

HP 301-302: 1 * 6C = 1C (2/day = 1 day)

Total for strength and defence (and HP): 2773 codestones, 232 days

 

So after 3271 codestones and 273 days (9 months), you'd have a balanced pet with 151 level and 302 HP/str/def.

 

What if you started with a level 32 pet with 64 HP/str/def, and zapped while you trained? I've found that it's best not to overtrain HP too much when zapping, though the more times you can train per day, the less important this is, but let's just assume you follow this rule. If I remember correctly, the net average stat increase is 1.6, but let's be conservative and assume 1 point per day. It doesn't matter which stat it is, since you'll balance gains/losses with training.

 

Level 32-41, HP/str/def 64-82 (4 trainings/day + 1 lab-stat/day): 9 + (18 * 3) = 63 stats = 13 zaps + 50 * 2C = 100C, 13 days

Level 41-81, HSD 82-162 (4 trainings + 1 lab-stat/day): 40 + (80 * 3) = 280 stats = 56 zaps + 224 * 3C = 672C, 56 days

Level 81-101, HSD 162-202 (3 trainings + 1 lab-stat/day): 20 + (40 * 3) = 140 stats = 35 zaps + 105 * 4C = 420C, 35 days

Level 101-121, HSD 202-242 (3 trainings + 1 lab-stat/day): 20 + (40 * 3) = 140 stats = 35 zaps + 105 * 5C = 525C, 35 days

Level 121-151, HSD 242-302 (2 trainings + 1 lab-stat/day): 30 + (60 * 3) = 210 stats = 70 zaps + 140 * 6C = 840C, 70 days

 

So to get a level 32, balanced (64 HSD) pet to 151L/302HSD by zapping and training at the same time, you'd need ~2557C and 209 days (7 months). You might not have a pet at 32/64, so the actual costs might be slightly higher in time and codestones (you can calculate the exact cost for any particular pet by following my example above), but by zapping and labbing at the same time, keeping the pet balanced, you could save ~700 codestones and 2 months' of training (minimum -- remember that I was very conservative in my estimate of what you gain from the lab, and the actual savings are probably greater). It's up to you if keeping your BD pet as your fighter is worth those costs. Two months really isn't that much time in the long run, and while codestones do get expensive, if you're winning some from the BD every day, those costs are offset.

 

The analysis would be different if you tried to bypass the more expensive regular codestones and aimed for the reds. Since I've been in reds for awhile, I don't know the break-even point for that decision.

 

 

*# Days assumes you can get on-line within certain windows a few times a day, rather than the theoretical max.

[Zephyr]

Thank you both for your input. I'm now seriously considering starting afresh with a new pet.

 

What if you started with a level 32 pet with 64 HP/str/def, and zapped while you trained? I've found that it's best not to overtrain HP too much when zapping, though the more times you can train per day, the less important this is, but let's just assume you follow this rule. If I remember correctly, the net average stat increase is 1.6, but let's be conservative and assume 1 point per day. It doesn't matter which stat it is, since you'll balance gains/losses with training.

Wow *_____*

When it comes to the part with the lab ray thrown in, wow.

 

But one thing has always bugged me: how does the training balance the lab ray gain/loss?

If say, the level 32 pet with even stats has its level reduced by the ray, I would need to train level again before I can move on with other stats.

With the ray it feels like it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

[Batman]

With the ray it feels like it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

 

It does feel that way but over time you will see a stat gain. For instance my BD pet I train and zap although I have lost 22 levels and 3 movement points since I have started, I have also gained 39 HP, 16 Strength and 6 Defense. They might not go up evenly but overall I have a net gain of 36 stats 39 important ones (as I lost 3 movement).

[siniri]

It's relatively easy to keep the pet balanced. You'll end up training defense and level more often, and HP less often (many times, I haven't had to train HP for months at a time, especially when I was zapping once for every training). If you're getting close to where a stat could push you over into the next codestone range, you can always stop zapping until everything else catches up. The more you zap-and-train together, the better sense you'll get for which stats to focus on. I personally would crank my level up to the middle of the codestone range, then focus on getting defense to twice the new level, then catch strength up, and finally HP (if necessary). If the lab took away defense while I was working on strength/HP, I'd catch defense back up to where it was by training before continuing.

 

As an example, let's look at Batman's training, assuming she started at 32 level, 64 HSD. Let's assume it took 28 days for the boosts and 12 for the losses (so 40 days total).* By labbing alone, she would be at level 10, 103 HP, 80 strength, and 70 defence. Very imbalanced, right?

 

But she could train 3-4 times during those 40 days. To get her level to 40, she'd need 30 trainings (so 7.5 days) at 2 codestones each. Hopefully she could get there before her HP went above 80 -- but she could guarantee it by holding off zapping for a few days. She would then get her defence to 80 (10 trainings @ 2C, 2.5 days), and let's assume her strength and HP are already there. She then levels to 41 (2C, 1 of 4 trainings that day), then to 52 (11 trainings @ 3C, 3 days total for levels 41-52). Next is defence from 80-103 (23 trainings) and strength from 80-103 (23 trainings): 46 trainings @ 3C, 11.5 days.

 

In short:

7.5 days bringing level to 40

2.5 days bringing defence to 80

3 days catching level up to 52

11.5 days catching defence and strength up to 103

 

That's only a total of 24.5 days, so you'd have another 15.5 days to boost stats evenly (and at 4 trainings per day, that's 66 trainings!). There's lots of wiggle room here.

 

Again, it's harder to keep things balanced when you're matching 1 training for 1 zap each day, but you can always take a break from zapping to even things out. And when you're training frequently, you really can afford to overtrain HP a little before busting into the next codestone range (this is important to remember once you transition from regular to red codestones and jump from training once per day to potentially 12 times per day).

 

*Batman, it'd be interesting to know how many days it actually took you to get those stats.

 

**Note that you can have losing streaks where you're losing more stats than you're gaining, but every single long-term study I've seen of the lab ray has shown a net positive stat gain. The only thing you should avoid is the "back to level 1" zap, which I've heard only occurs below level 50 (though others give a different number).

[Batman]

Those stats were over 138 zaps. I am surprised I am positive in defense even if it is so low but I was trying to keep my pet even and refused to zap because he was a krawk. I gave up on caring about the krawk and started zapping not that long ago (I have been fairly inactive recently so it was longer then 138 days though).

[teeniem55]

I just keep zapping and hope for the best. I have stopped all training because my Health is up to 247. I have to keep training my level because the stats are so uneven. It seems more often than not I train the level then zap and lose like 3 levels after I zap. That's my most frustrating part of training and zapping.

[Zephyr]

Thank you, thank you Batman and Siniri. You guys have been extremely helpful once again.

I've sent in an application (pre-maintenance) to adopt a pet so the undertakings of a new pet are underway :)

In short:

7.5 days bringing level to 40

2.5 days bringing defence to 80

3 days catching level up to 52

11.5 days catching defence and strength up to 103

 

That's only a total of 24.5 days, so you'd have another 15.5 days to boost stats evenly (and at 4 trainings per day, that's 66 trainings!). There's lots of wiggle room here.

 

Again, it's harder to keep things balanced when you're matching 1 training for 1 zap each day, but you can always take a break from zapping to even things out. And when you're training frequently, you really can afford to overtrain HP a little before busting into the next codestone range (this is important to remember once you transition from regular to red codestones and jump from training once per day to potentially 12 times per day).

Your calculations keep blowing me away.

At the risk of sounding like a fangirl, I'll keep quiet now xD

But I'll be referring to them as I go along.

[siniri]

Well, based on Batman's results, my recollections of the benefits of the lab ray might be off. The good news is that you'd have an extra 100 days to even things out. Hopefully Batman's been getting atypical results, and she'll swing into getting more stats soon. The other possibility is that TNT tweaked the ray to give more color/species changes and fewer stats. The lab ray would still be a net positive in that scenario, just not quite as profitable.

[Lamppost]

Your calculations keep blowing me away.

That's the interesting thing about the Battledome: it's all calculations. If you want to make a decision about whether to upgrade your items or train, you can do math to see which would help you with more damage. If you want to know whether to speed train up to 250, check the math. It makes for some solid reasoning!

 

As far as training/zapping, I completely agree with using both. I hope you get your new pet!

[Zephyr]

That's the interesting thing about the Battledome: it's all calculations.

That's the thing- I'm pants at calculations xDD

 

I'm sure there will be lots of calculator-jabbing and hair-pulling for me in the future lol

[Lamppost]

That's the thing- I'm pants at calculations xDD

 

I'm sure there will be lots of calculator-jabbing and hair-pulling for me in the future lol

In good news, the Battlepedia does have a damage calculator available for use. You can find it here: http://battlepedia.thedailyneopets.com/index.php/site/damagecalculator/

 

We don't have a training calculator - but maybe that's a good idea for the future!