Scientology: the debate

[leverhelven]

So recently I've been reading a lot about Scientology. Well, let me rephrase that: I've been reading a lot of testimonials from people who managed to escape Scientology.

 

I started with these two posts from Cracked: 5 Ways Growing Up Inside Scientology Was a Nightmare and 5 Disturbing Things I Learned in Scientology's 'Space Navy'. Both are awesome, by the way. I then found this site from and for ex-scientology kids who managed to escape.

 

I started reading a lot about Scientology and its origins, and I'm still amazed at the fact that people actually join in and believe in a religion that was completely fabricated by a well-known science-fiction writer, to the point of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting it.

 

I'd like to talk about it. What are your guys' view of Scientology? Have you ever met someone who was a Scientologist? Why do you think it manages to convince so many people?

[Batgirl]

Judge not lest ye be judged?

 

apparently 7 words are the min here for a post. sorry mods, didnt know and felt the 6 alone kind of said it all nicely :)

 

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[leverhelven]

Hum, that's the point of the Debate Chat: debating about something, not necessarily judging it. :)

[Shelley]

It's hard for me to debate a religious practice but I think there's something to be said by the testimonials of others. Although I don't know much about Scientology I've heard about it- Most notably from a certain celebrity who recently escaped from the practice. I don't actually know anyone who is involved with Scientology but personally it seems a bit dangerous to me.

 

I would comment further on practices revolving around fabricated ideas but I shall not haha

 

I am against anything that brings harm to an individual or those surrounding them. If you are not hurting yourself or anyone else then I feel everyone is entitled to chose whatever they want to believe in without judgement...where scientology falls into this mix, I am not sure. I've heard they are involved in many social service programs, yet at the same time I hear talk about harassment and brainwashing- even physical abuse :/

 

It would be interesting to learn more on the subject, as all I've ever seen or heard is anti-scientology remarks haha

[Novelista]

I've read a lot escape sites/articles myself, plus an unauthorized bio of Tom Cruise and I find it all nuttier than a pan of brownies. The worst part is that I used to confuse it with the Church of Christ-Scientist when I was younger. Not a good thing!

 

I've never used the information I know to take Scientology through the Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, but I'm willing to bet it wouldn't pass. The whole nonsense with suppressive people and ostracizing you if you leave the faith reeks of abuse, for example (or it does when you put it on a person-to-person level). I realize there are other religions, like the Amish religion, that shun you if you leave; but there is a marked difference between the Amish and Scientologists, too.

[HomuraAkemiTheHero]

I don't really understand how Scientology is even a religion. It doesn't make sense to me really and it just seems dangerous and anyway it seems the religion comes from a Sci-fi novel from what I heard which leads me to think how in the world it even came to be an actual religion. I don't really have a religion but I don't see why they can't go to the doctors because just touching a person isn't going to cure something like the flu you would have to be a wizard or something to do that and I don't know any wizards that are real.

[leverhelven]

I've read a lot escape sites/articles myself, plus an unauthorized bio of Tom Cruise and I find it all nuttier than a pan of brownies. The worst part is that I used to confuse it with the Church of Christ-Scientist when I was younger. Not a good thing!

 

I've never used the information I know to take Scientology through the Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, but I'm willing to bet it wouldn't pass. The whole nonsense with suppressive people and ostracizing you if you leave the faith reeks of abuse, for example (or it does when you put it on a person-to-person level). I realize there are other religions, like the Amish religion, that shun you if you leave; but there is a marked difference between the Amish and Scientologists, too.

 

Oh wow, I had never heard either of the Church of Christ-Scientists nor of the BCDEF! I'm reading about them right now, it's very interesting! I'm also curious about this biography, which is it?

 

There's been lots of testimonials on physical abuse inside the Scientology, especially on their "Space Navy". Also there seems to be so much psychological abuse it's nearly ridiculous. There's lots about it on Cracked's link on the Space Navy above.

[Novelista]

That's the first time I've heard of Sea Org being referred to as the "Space Navy". xD

I think CCS is the one where they believe science will heal you or some such...I just know that they're not too big on doctors and I'm too lazy to look them up. :P (But they were founded by a woman, which is cool.)

When I re-read your post and realized you asked me which book, I was like, "Em...I know it has a white cover!" and then I thought, "How many will I have to wade through on Amazon to find the right one?" I didn't have to wade at all...it was at the top of the list. :D


It turns out that that "BCDEF" actually isn't missing an A (*giggle*)...I checked the copy I have saved on my computer and the full title is "Bonewits' Advanced Cult Danger Evaluation Frame" (though some places list it with B and A switched around). It was created by Druidic author Isaac Bonewits (I can't find a year) to help readers determine whether a group was a cult...or perhaps just odd. (That last bit by me, of course.) I read it in one of his books several years ago and thought it was so important to remember that I copied it over.

Not that Scientology needs help fueling discussions, but I thought it might be interesting if we all took it step by step together:

I. Internal Control: How much internal political and social power is exercised by the leaders over the members? Is there a lack of clearly defined organizational rights for the membership?

 

• You can't talk to "suppressive people".
• If you land in Sea Org, you're basically signing a contract for a billion years of slavery.
• "Organizational rights"? Never heard of 'em in Scientology. (Of course, I can't vouch for any other mainstream faith having an "election system" or a means of having a voice, either.)
• I'm guessing the higher you get in states of "clear" (I can't even remember the rank names, if there are any), the more important you are. That's why Tom Cruise is the poster boy, besides one of the big shots actively recruiting him (can't remember if it was Hubbard or Miscavige)--he's ubersuperhigh in the church. (Do they even call them churches?)

Anyone else have anything to contribute to step one?

[eloralestrange]

Wow. That was a reading adventure. I was actually really scared for a moment, and then the article said that there weren't very many of them. Phew. 

I can't make an accurate guess because of only one person's POV, but at the same time, your first-hand experience combined with the article makes me think it's pretty darn bad. 

I've never met a scientologist, and I don't know enough about it to understand why people would join it, but I think it's like any religion--you hear the beliefs often enough when you're being raised or maybe even when you're an adult, and you just start to believe them.