Plastics: Ban or not?

[Clumsy rockyroad1]

Recently, our country had an election. So there was an change of officials. In 1 city, the city government banned the use of all plastics effective immediately. The previous officials only banned non-biodegradable plastics.

 

What is your stand on this matter? Should use of plastics be banned, limited, or allow to no restriction?

[siniri]

How exactly is that supposed to work? Are they banning all plastics from entering the city? Sale of items containing plastic? Must people get rid of the plastic they already have? Plastic is in so many things that there's really no alternative for -- I can't imagine you could get a computer, for example, that is 100% plastic-free. So are people in your city just not supposed to buy computers anymore?

 

I do agree that we should decrease the use of plastics, and only use recyclable/biodegradable plastic if possible. And reduce waste, in general, of all materials. But by banning plastic outright, you might end up creating bigger problems and more waste in the long run (e.g., if people in your city have to travel to another town if they want to buy a computer now, it's actually just increasing the amount of carbon emissions to get the computers, and probably having minimal effect on the number of plastic-containing computers owned in the town).

[Clumsy rockyroad1]

How exactly is that supposed to work? Are they banning all plastics from entering the city? Sale of items containing plastic? Must people get rid of the plastic they already have? Plastic is in so many things that there's really no alternative for -- I can't imagine you could get a computer, for example, that is 100% plastic-free. So are people in your city just not supposed to buy computers anymore?

 

I do agree that we should decrease the use of plastics, and only use recyclable/biodegradable plastic if possible. And reduce waste, in general, of all materials. But by banning plastic outright, you might end up creating bigger problems and more waste in the long run (e.g., if people in your city have to travel to another town if they want to buy a computer now, it's actually just increasing the amount of carbon emissions to get the computers, and probably having minimal effect on the number of plastic-containing computers owned in the town).

 

That's over the line. Like when you go out of the supermarket, you need to use fabric/paper bags for carrying your things that you bought. Not ban plastic materials in computers. :P

[siniri]

 

That's over the line. Like when you go out of the supermarket, you need to use fabric/paper bags for carrying your things that you bought. Not ban plastic materials in computers. :P

Okay, that makes more sense... but even my "fabric" reusable grocery bags are made of plastic! :P What about when buying fruits and vegetables, will they still have the plastic produce bags (is that even a thing in the Philippines?) to put all the items of one type into? Can grocery stores shrink-wrap meats, etc. in plastic? Can they sell milk in plastic jugs (or other foods often packaged in plastic, if milk isn't)? Or is it *just* "no disposable plastic bags at stores"? Supposedly paper bags aren't much better than plastic for the environment, but hopefully this will result in more people using reusable bags.

 

(Here in the U.S., they do some really silly things in the grocery store, like selling "stoplight peppers" -- 1 red, 1 yellow, 1 green -- wrapped in plastic together for an exorbitant price compared to if you bought each separately, or shrink-wrapping "ready to bake" potatoes that all they did was wash, using a lot of unnecessary plastic. I could get behind requiring stores to reduce their usage of plastic.)

[Clumsy rockyroad1]

Okay, that makes more sense... but even my "fabric" reusable grocery bags are made of plastic! :P What about when buying fruits and vegetables, will they still have the plastic produce bags (is that even a thing in the Philippines?) to put all the items of one type into? Can grocery stores shrink-wrap meats, etc. in plastic? Can they sell milk in plastic jugs (or other foods often packaged in plastic, if milk isn't)? Or is it *just* "no disposable plastic bags at stores"? Supposedly paper bags aren't much better than plastic for the environment, but hopefully this will result in more people using reusable bags.

 

(Here in the U.S., they do some really silly things in the grocery store, like selling "stoplight peppers" -- 1 red, 1 yellow, 1 green -- wrapped in plastic together for an exorbitant price compared to if you bought each separately, or shrink-wrapping "ready to bake" potatoes that all they did was wash, using a lot of unnecessary plastic. I could get behind requiring stores to reduce their usage of plastic.)

 

The plastic produced bags, yes it exists here. meat/produce can still be placed on plastic but the disposable bags (biodegradable or not) is banned. Only the plastic after paying at the cashier is banned.

 

Good night!

[crazy_cat_luv_bb]

Restriction as the highest, not banned :shiftyeyes_anim:

We use so much plastic in daily life, so it's really hard to ban it completely.

I saw on Discovery Chanel a few years back about how we can substitute plastic things and about recycling in the fulture. It's pretty amazing; like books made off plastic and washable, plastic folks made off corn starch and stuff like that. I think if we can do this then the environment would be much better

[Rebecca~]

I think that would be a little inconvenient but it would definitely work to help reduce the amount of plastic that is thrown out. Where I live they've just started charging for each bag that you do get from a cashier to help discourage people from using them, and to help encourage them to remember their reusable ones.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I definitely like the idea of moving away from plastic bags. There's only one problem with banning them completely: meat. You need plastic for meat. It bleeds through paper, and it causes serious contamination in fabric bags.

[coltom]

Oh, meat was just fine in the old days with waxed paper. You also didn't end up paying for some much blood and liquid that they include at the supermarket. I do confuse though, I am bound by tradition/culture not to eat meat unless I did the slaughter, as I will not ask another to do my killing for me, so it is a moot issue for me.

 

The Philippines would seem to be aware of one of the major drawbacks of plastic, that is the ever increasing and catastrophic amount of floating ocean plastic. We are placing a garbage layer upon the world's oceans, adding this indigestible slop into the diet of sea birds, marine mammals, wildlife. I watched today what must have been tens of kilograms float down our local north flowing river, to be added to other tribs until adding metric ton after metric ton to the Gulf. It just keeps accumulating, and the possible end points are frightening to contemplate.

[Emily]

I don't think you could really "ban" plastic. I do agree with what others have stated that we should work on drastically reducing the use though. Unfortunately, for some things, there's no cost-efficient material that can perform equally to plastic, so until a time when we have one, we may be stuck with it. However, there's a ton of things we can do to help reduce plastic consumption.

 

As Rebecca mentioned, many places in Canada are starting to charge for plastic bags at stores. The cost is usually 5 cents per bag. I work in retail, and have noticed a huge increase in the number of people bringing their own bags and boxes. Some stores, rather than charging, offer a cashback incentive, giving you a small cash return on your purchase if you don't use plastic bags for your stuff. These may not seem like huge incentives/charges, but next time you're out shopping in a store that doesn't regulate bag use in any way, take a look at the huge number of plastic bags people have. I usually do one big grocery shopping monthly at a place that does a return if you bring your own bags, and I usually end up getting 5-10 dollars back per month, or, 60-100$ a year. And I'm only shopping for one person, so imagine how much you'd be saving/getting back if you were shopping for 4+ people.

 

However, I find that, until very recently with the boom in production of eco-friendly products (which, I might add, are grossly overpriced for what's actually in them), the responsibility to conserve fell largely to the consumer. Yes, it is our responsibility to use/dispose of things responsibly, but we can only do so much. I feel that more pressure needs to be put on the manufacturers of products to reduce their packaging. How many times have you bought something only to have it wrapped in two or three plastic layers? What about all the things you buy that come with parts that are contained in dozens of plastic bags? Why not use fewer bags? Why not a segmented box? Paper envelopes? We can reduce and recycle all we like, but if companies continue to foist a ton of excess packing on us with everything we buy, our efforts become much less effective.

[Rebecca~]

I don't think you could really "ban" plastic. I do agree with what others have stated that we should work on drastically reducing the use though. Unfortunately, for some things, there's no cost-efficient material that can perform equally to plastic, so until a time when we have one, we may be stuck with it. However, there's a ton of things we can do to help reduce plastic consumption.

 

As Rebecca mentioned, many places in Canada are starting to charge for plastic bags at stores. The cost is usually 5 cents per bag. I work in retail, and have noticed a huge increase in the number of people bringing their own bags and boxes. Some stores, rather than charging, offer a cashback incentive, giving you a small cash return on your purchase if you don't use plastic bags for your stuff. These may not seem like huge incentives/charges, but next time you're out shopping in a store that doesn't regulate bag use in any way, take a look at the huge number of plastic bags people have. I usually do one big grocery shopping monthly at a place that does a return if you bring your own bags, and I usually end up getting 5-10 dollars back per month, or, 60-100$ a year. And I'm only shopping for one person, so imagine how much you'd be saving/getting back if you were shopping for 4+ people.

 

However, I find that, until very recently with the boom in production of eco-friendly products (which, I might add, are grossly overpriced for what's actually in them), the responsibility to conserve fell largely to the consumer. Yes, it is our responsibility to use/dispose of things responsibly, but we can only do so much. I feel that more pressure needs to be put on the manufacturers of products to reduce their packaging. How many times have you bought something only to have it wrapped in two or three plastic layers? What about all the things you buy that come with parts that are contained in dozens of plastic bags? Why not use fewer bags? Why not a segmented box? Paper envelopes? We can reduce and recycle all we like, but if companies continue to foist a ton of excess packing on us with everything we buy, our efforts become much less effective.

I agree, Emily!

I recently won a giftbasket from a local organic food supplier, that was supposed to be all about eco responsibility. My stuff came to me in a huuuuuuge box where everything was double wrapped in bubble wrap, and with styrofoam peanuts between things.

Seriously?

Nevermind that the peanuts CAN'T be recycled, nevermind that they could have used a much smaller box so less peanuts would have to be used, nevermind that they could have used cardboard dividers between things. I was really disappointed in them.

 

And yeah- to everyone that thinks that the 5 cents per plastic bag doesn't add up- please, take the place of any cashier that has to explain to an angry customer why they have to pay for bags. I had to deal with way too much of that! XD

[coltom]

Double check that they are "styrofoam" peanuts. While I can assure you they are not, Styrofoam is a registered trademark of Dow Chemical and do not make or license their brandname for any packing peanuts. (footnote, see Mad magazine circa 1982).

While most packing peanuts are made of difficult to recycle poly sty, there are some lovely corn starch packing peanuts that are biodegradeable (actually, they'll dissolve in water so throw them in your compost pile). If your local organic store is worth a hoot and a holler, they'll have used the cornstarch ones (my chickens love them).

 

 

Found a copy of the Mad ^® letter to the editor. It still makes me laugh.

 

http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/this-just-made-me-laugh.7123/

[Nataluna]

where i live its increasingly moving to plastic bag free

 

that been said most things you buy these days are made of plastic :P

 

most large stores are charging for plastic bags, here its anything from 10-20c, grocery stores don't because i think people will kick too much of a fuss but they generally don't give them to you now for 1-2 items unless you specifically ask for them, they are also hugely pushing the reusable bags which also are often given for free in promotional giveaways.

 

selected townships can enforce trading rules and i know a few townships within the city i live which have a no plastic bag policy, which is usually for post-checkout as others have mentioned, meat seems to have had an exception because the plastic its in from the deli is considered packaging

 

i think its generally a good idea to cut our consumption of plastic bags down, but paper bags aren't a real alternative, in the anaerobic environment of a landfill they take just as long to break down and the production of paper itself is quite toxic, requires acids/serious chemicals.

 

plastic bags though are a major nuisance to wildlife especially though.

 

i normally either carry my stuff by hand (it stops me from overshopping which is MY major problem) or i keep a couple of the fibre reusable bags in my larger bags.

[coltom]

Apple Pi,

I've never liked the "argument" that paper does not break down in a landfill. It is one of those "arguments of displacement". It is of little concern if they decompose or not in a landfill, modern landfills with leachate collection and a gas collection layer are not a great burden upon the planet. What does matter, is what happens to that 25% of the bags that don't make it to a landfill, that end up ocean borne, combusted or just surface litter. Even with heavy blue light cracking from UV, they'll be around for centuries. Add to this, that paper is readily recyclable, in fact, many are made of a significant portion of recyc material.

 

Yes, making paper in the past caused more than a few water and air problems, the sulphate process has and does pollute, but moderns plants are much cleaner. Paper bags do not need to be white paper, so not as much chlorine needs to be used and many places use ozone which has a very small environmental footprint. Add to this the fact that most paper is from plantation forest (Silvaculture) which are carbon neutral or even a carbon sink, while oil refineries that produce the raw materials for plastics are not. Plus the fact, that sea turtles do not die when they eat floating paper, it does not form a layer of indigestible alien material upon the worlds oceans.

 

So, yes your hemp bag with the tie dye is the best choice, but paper is a close second.

 

No, I don't work for the pulp and paper industry, I have worked some on there CAA Title V operating permits and NSR PSD permits (air stuff).

[Nataluna]

i say the paper bag argument because in the country i'm in thats not a popular alternative, most companies here use plastic and a friend in a previous discussion on this topic commented on how other countries tend to offer consumers the option of paper or plastic, but i consider paper mills often very toxic to the environment, this idea that paper is somehow significantly better for the environment because it comes from a renewable resource rubs me the wrong way (yes i know thats not the point you are exactly making, but it was the point she made which is why it came to mind when writing my previous post) because if you recycle/upcycle/reuse that is the best method for reducing environmental impact that we make with frankly, all our rubbish. most packaging if its paper here, is normally super fancy, with gloss/color/bleached white for boutiques and speciality shops not the brown paper which i believe is a alternative used to plastic bags in other countries. no large supermarket offers paper bags here, you'ld only maybe find it in the specialty organic stores.

 

although there are cleaner paper mills, i personally feel its the same argument i can apply to alot of manufactured product: do i know where it comes from? because not all countries have the same standards. its a big issue at the moment where i am that imported product is not having to pass the same sort of standards as locally produced product in that manufacturing processes aren't under direct scrutiny, only the product may be subject to that (and depending on the product, not always depending on what licence its imported under). Reflex paper recently suffered some bad PR when it came out some of their paper was from native hardwood forests, perfectly legal but not a good image for a company which promotes that it also produces recycled product and promotes itself as a greener paper company with an attached brand premium for being locally produced and environmentally "friendly".

 

yes i agree paper is less dangerous in an aerobic environment like the ocean, but i don't consider paper a viable disposable alternative is that makes sense? so yes although paper is a better alternative than plastic, its the attitude of society that needs changing, i believe our society is exceptionally wasteful as a whole and recycling although it reduces resources that have to be produced for product it also requires significant energy/resources to return it to a usable form. you should see the verge collection i drove past this morning, its the 6th one in that suburb this year (mine only does it twice a year), its ridiculous some people have so much large waste to throw away every single time. and that goes straight to landfill, they don't bother sorting out that stuff.

 

change is slow and expensive as a rule, most landfills will not be exactly modern depending on your country but here although the rules about catchment for water etc apply, if you have older infrastructure in place, sometimes stuff is grandfathered its often incredibly difficult if not impractical to apply sealants and linings to landfill sites. yes newer stuff will be better in terms of aiding breakdown of organic material and in reducing risk of environmental impact, but honestly thats not my experience in my local area which

 

*cough* getting a bit offtopic so i'll stop. so i do agree with you, but also disagree :P it kinda depends on your country, what would be a viable alternative, and how they chose to manage waste.

[coltom]

Apple Pi, your point is well taken that when I look at the issue I mainly see that North America uses silvaculture softwoods for paper, and disposes of its waste into single or double liner landfills with almost certainly have to have a gas collection layer to destroy production of GHG methane.

 

Still, I am a big fan of turtles, they hold a very special place in my mythology/religion (you do know the world rest upon a giant turtle?) Plastic is going into the oceans, it is going to stay, it is going to kill.

[Thomas_T]

I am agree with all who are in support of ban on plastic because it is non-degradable material which means it can't be decompose,recycle.My advice is to go for paper bags and all those things which are not hazardous to our beautiful environment.Thank you!

[zorna]

I think we should ban all plastics, but we know that's not going to happen so we should all recycle

[pheddy]

The problem isn't plastic or recycling, its that a lot of places don't recycle the kind that plastic bags are made of. A lot of retail stores accept plastic bags to recycle. I think that grocery stores shouldn't give out plastic bags at all. I've worked in a few places where they banned plastic and charged 10 cents for paper bags, which is pretty effective but really pisses people off.

[sniffismydog]

I've actually been doing a lot of undergraduate research on plastic and how it harms the environment. It's scary stuff. Not only does plastic float around and cause physical injuries like strangulation, and death by starvation on a stomach full of plastic, plastic also adsorbs organic pollutants. Adsorbs means that the pollutant doesn't go into the plastic, it more just gets stuck to the outside. Plastic acts like a sponge for DDT, and all kinds of other pollutants, and can concentrate them. Even though the US and many other countries have banned pollutants like that, many other contries haven't, and the pollutant still remains in the environment regardless of it being banned. When fish or other animals eat the plastic with pollutants on them, the pollutants cause all sorts of problems in the organism. The most known problem right now is that they act as endocrine disruptors, which can feminize male fish and make them sterile, and cause all sorts of awful health problems. And since plastic doesn't biodegrade, it just breaks down into smaller and smaller molecules of plastic, one piece of plastic can turn into thousand over time. It's so awful. Plastic really has no place in our earth-wide ecosystem.

 

What's even scarier is that a good chunk of plastic pollution in the oceans is from virgin pellets, pellets of fresh plastic that are being shipped to a facility to be made into bottles, etc. Barges lose entire crates every day over the side of the boat, and companies aren't even required to report the loss! They just keep dumping these tiny pellets into the ocean every single day. Literally tons of plastic are dumped every year, and that's not even counting the refined plastic that is dumped.

[Pookies]

I try not to use plastics besides plastic bags but sniffismydog's post makes me reconsider....

 

sometimes it is hard for me to see what stuff is and isnt recyclable when i am throwing things out. my mom and i have gotten into debates whether drink cups from fast food places are recyclable or not

 

and my mom brought up something interesting...for a few years we keep hearing that plastic bags will be completely replaced...people who want to continue using plastic bags will have to buy them...but today, after watching a GLAD commercial my mom realized even if this ban does happen, we probably wont be better off anyway since plastic bags will continue to be sold anyway

 

but i think things like this are super unnecessary:

from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/billa-peeled-bananas-plastic-wrap_n_1900267.html

 

even the other day I saw potatoes individually wrapped this way....whyyyyyyy, i ask?

here is a picture of how the potatoes are wrapped: http://www.outlawgarden.com/2013/03/07/e-books-and-experiments/

[thatlauralass]

Oh goodness, essay inbound. ;u; I'm so sorry, ahaha.

 

As much as I would love to live in a world where manmade substances aren't the norm, it's probably never ever going to happen. Sitting here at my computer and having a look around my room, I can see... a bin liner in my trashcan, spray bottle for my plants, my wacom tablet is made of plastic, shoes, flask for hot/cold drinks, 3ds, dvd/game boxes... I could go on. Yeah some of those plastics are reusable and I have no intentions of throwing them out. But the point is, plastic is a part of everyday life now, even to someone a bit more conscious of it like myself.

In terms of recycling, I think more effort needs to be made - on everybodies behalf INCLUDING THE COMPANIES.
Recycling will only work if companies cut out/reduce the use of factories creating the plastic in the first place; all they've done as build more for "recycling purposes". So what, the plastic's getting made AND recycled, causing even more pollution. Yeah ok, because that's helping the atmosphere.

Also a lot of recycling states that "plastic/cardboard/paper contaminated with food cannot be recycled". If you have one look around your supermarket, you can see almost EVERYTHING minus some of the fruit and veg to be cased in some form of the stuff. and look at fast food places; sure they don't serve you anything that's plastic (oh sorry that's a lie; the lids for the cups and the straws are), all that cardboard/paper is 'contaminated' by food thus I'd be super duper surprised if any of it even gets thrown out.

Another issue is, and this is my biggest one; the emphasis is on us to put our trash in a recycable bin - what about all these food companies, shops, etcetera, that just throw everything out in one bin.

 

If you go to MacDonalds for a sit-in meal, would you honestly take your rubbish with you to despose of in a recycable manner, or would you put it in the bins they provide? My university has 3 bins in every location; paper, plastic and general waste. Yet there has been one time staying late that me and a couple of my friends noticed the cleaner putting them all in the same black bin liner.

 

So yes. It's all very well and everything for us to recycle, but it won't make squat difference if the companies don't do it either. Telling us that we can make a difference is about as hypocritical as the "save electricity by switing your appliances off and not leaving them on stand by" speel they gave us here a couple of years ago. So... that's all very well. But you're telling me that it's MY responsibility, when cities like las vegas have their lights on 24/7? It should be OUR responsibility. Not just mine or the general publics.

 

I realise that's a bit of a tangent from the point, but companies will always sell plastic bags, and people will always buy them. The fat cats at the head of the company are just laughing that they have an excuse to charge us for using plastic bags - they don't care how many people purchase, and shockingly, people don't care about buyng them because they're at such a low cost. And this is coming from the UK, where many companies are cutting back on plastic bags. "Cutting back" doesn't mean that they're not available, however.

 

If a survey was taken to see just how many plastic bags are used per day in a supermarket here, I'm pretty sure it would still be a LOT.

Granted, there are more people becoming aware of being environmentally friendly, but honestly we need to pick up the pace and do more for our planet.

[agrinwithoutacat]

I'm fine with a ban on plastic bags at the store, provided it honestly does cut down on trash. I live just outside a city that did this and it really is not a big deal to get used to. They still have the little bags for your meat and produce at the grocery store, and no one's talking about getting rid of that. It's just at the checkout that they want you using reusable bags. This is where the bulk of the bags come from, after all.

It takes a little while to remember to bring your bags, but once you get that down it works pretty well. The reusable ones hold a lot more, too, so you have fewer bags, which is nice.

[Pookies]

It takes a little while to remember to bring your bags, but once you get that down it works pretty well. The reusable ones hold a lot more, too, so you have fewer bags, which is nice.

 

This is true! These bags helped out a lot when I didn't have a car and had to walk everywhere!

 

thatlauralass:

[...]

 

Another issue is, and this is my biggest one; the emphasis is on us to put our trash in a recycable bin - what about all these food companies, shops, etcetera, that just throw everything out in one bin.

 

If you go to MacDonalds for a sit-in meal, would you honestly take your rubbish with you to despose of in a recycable manner, or would you put it in the bins they provide? My university has 3 bins in every location; paper, plastic and general waste. Yet there has been one time staying late that me and a couple of my friends noticed the cleaner putting them all in the same black bin liner.

 

[...]

 

I think another problem is some people, besides being lazy, just dont know what goes where. It's so much easier to put it all in one bin. I have even heard not to worry about it because the "recycling/trash guys will take care of it when they divide it all up". So... people just dont want to take responsibility for their trash. If I dont know where something goes, I tend to keep it and go home to recycle it later, once I find out where it goes. I know it looks silly and I probably get strange looks, but it's easier for me to wait to throw something out (especially when I see there are no recycling bins around and I know that the trash I have is recyclable)

[Tadie]

As someone who works in Seattle (where plastic bags are banned from stores), it's incredibly annoying when a customer will try to blame me for this fact. Dude, where have you been the past two years? Plastic bags are wasteful--IF you don't reuse them!

 

Personally, I'm all for reusable bags in stores (for purchase), but having to pay a few cents more if you want a plastic bag. When I get a plastic bag, I take it home and it gets used again, either as a trashcan liner, carrying sack for lunch, or even as a cat box residue holder.

 

Bottom line? People in general should try to conserve more every day, but those who don't want to can pay a "plastic fee." Hahah.