Suicide

[Rebecca~]

Well, I think suicide is a very stupid choice. That is, for older people. And when I say older, I mean about 12 years old and up. I understand why young children try to suicide when they're younger, the main reason why is because they have sort of guilt and they have no idea how to get help because they're so young. I don't understand why teenagers though suicide, seriously. If you're a 15 year old who decides to suicide because you believe you have no importance in life ( or whatever the reason is. ), then that's just plain ignorant. I'm pretty sure that person who's planning to suicide has friends and family who do care about them and even if not, there's always help around that person. ( As in there's always teachers who can help resolve your problem. ) To believe that you have no importance in life is something that's ignorant. I despise people who suicide because it's not even worth it. Do you know that most people who threaten to kill them self don't actually do it? It's just part of getting the attention, and in the end it doesn't really matter cause they are probably forgotten in a year or two. ( Sounds harsh, but it's true. )

 

Children on the other hand have more reason to suicide. If you're a little 6year old or something getting abused by your parents or molested by somebody, then being the young kid you are: wouldn't you be afraid and have no idea how to resolve the problem? I don't believe kids understand the concept of death nor is it important to because whether you understand it or not, it's more important to understand the significance of living. Children are to young to understand how important it is to live and to understand their role in society.

 

Yeah. :laughingsmiley:

Children often have a very firm grasp of death and what it means.

And really, you don't think that older children, and young adults don't always feel like they have somewhere to go when they're being abused?

A woman I used to go to school with had a really rough life. She was 14 when I knew her, and she had been raped and impregnanted at least twice. Her family hated her, and were emotionally abusive towards her. She struggled with drug addictions, and the school system failed her. None of her teachers seemed to notice or care the problems she was having.

She tried to commit suicide. She failed. She was forced into counselling afterwards, but that didn't make her life much better. Her family continued to hate her, and be abusive towards her. The counseller she saw never tried to have her removed from her home.

I lost touch with her after that, but still. The system failed her completely. Her life was such a mess, and she was seriously depressed. She was never helped,not in any serious way.

Well it is selfish to be honest. Because there's a lot of people around the world who are living a much more tragic life than some people, though they don't give up. I believe that it is being ignorant to think that you're the only one going through that much pain. Most people suicide for attention. You say that that person is living through pain, but isn't everyone? That person just needs to open their mind instead of thinking about how horrible their life is and go seek help.

It is NOT selfish. Freeing yourself from pain is never selfish. I can't believe that someone who has actually contemplated committing suicide would ever think that it was selfish.

And really, where is your stats on suicide being mostly for attention. Becuase I have read the exact opposite.

I would say that depressed persons who have contemplated suicide know they aren't the only ones without pain. When I was young, depressed, a self harmer, and thinking about what killing myself would be like/do for me, I never ONCE thought that no one else had ever felt pain. I knew they had. I knew people had much worse lives than I did. That did nothing to change how I felt, how much people did not understand what I was going through, how much I hurt, the self loathing I felt.

 

You are so ignorant.

[Saxen]

Well it is selfish to be honest. Because there's a lot of people around the world who are living a much more tragic life than some people, though they don't give up. I believe that it is being ignorant to think that you're the only one going through that much pain. Most people suicide for attention. You say that that person is living through pain, but isn't everyone? That person just needs to open their mind instead of thinking about how horrible their life is and go seek help.

 

Sooo... you're saying that because there are other more tragic things happening in the world that means what, someone isn't allowed to be depressed?? By proxy that also means then that you believe someone cant be truly happy, because other people are in better situations and happier than you are.

 

You have no idea what mental illness is, clearly, and you preaching about ignorance is actually pretty laughable.

[sigfridur]

Sooo... you're saying that because there are other more tragic things happening in the world that means what, someone isn't allowed to be depressed?? By proxy that also means then that you believe someone cant be truly happy, because other people are in better situations and happier than you are.

 

You have no idea what mental illness is, clearly, and you preaching about ignorance is actually pretty laughable.

Yeah, this.

 

Also, I misread Dynohawk's comment, so I take back that part of what I said.

[Rebecca~]

Sooo... you're saying that because there are other more tragic things happening in the world that means what, someone isn't allowed to be depressed?? By proxy that also means then that you believe someone cant be truly happy, because other people are in better situations and happier than you are.

 

You have no idea what mental illness is, clearly, and you preaching about ignorance is actually pretty laughable.

Quoted for truth.

It makes me so angry when people call suicidal people selfish. They have no idea. >(

[Biohazard]

Children often have a very firm grasp of death and what it means.

And really, you don't think that older children, and young adults don't always feel like they have somewhere to go when they're being abused?

A woman I used to go to school with had a really rough life. She was 14 when I knew her, and she had been raped and impregnanted at least twice. Her family hated her, and were emotionally abusive towards her. She struggled with drug addictions, and the school system failed her. None of her teachers seemed to notice or care the problems she was having.

She tried to commit suicide. She failed. She was forced into counselling afterwards, but that didn't make her life much better. Her family continued to hate her, and be abusive towards her. The counseller she saw never tried to have her removed from her home.

I lost touch with her after that, but still. The system failed her completely. Her life was such a mess, and she was seriously depressed. She was never helped,not in any serious way.

That maybe true and that maybe not. I'm not a kid anymore so I don't have any reason to decline that. But as I said, isn't it more about understand the importance of life than death?

 

Well, I experienced this first hand and of course I understand that some people don't believe that there's any help out there. And yes, I understand that there's people who are born with unfortunate lives. But there's alot of people with lives like that, life isn't easy obviously. I admit that I have a horrible life and that sometimes I feel that there's no hope. But what keep me from suiciding is trying to live my life the best I can be for the people are not as fortunate as me. Because I know that there's some people around the world who'd rather have my life than their's. To suicide because I believe that my life is bad is not understanding others, and their situation.

 

There's many people who're famous right now even though they've had the most worst life ever, take Nicki Minaj for example. Even though she's gone through a rough path, that didn't stop her from being successful. There's other people as well like Eminem, Lil Wayne, President Lincoln and Obama. It's just a matter of having hope in yourself and not giving up, because there's always light at the end of every tunnel. Some people are just so busy staring at the dark that they don't realize right behind them that there's an open door.

 

And also, if you knew this woman was going through such a terrible life style then why didn't you help her?

 

It is NOT selfish. Freeing yourself from pain is never selfish. I can't believe that someone who has actually contemplated committing suicide would ever think that it was selfish.

And really, where is your stats on suicide being mostly for attention. Becuase I have read the exact opposite.

I would say that depressed persons who have contemplated suicide know they aren't the only ones without pain. When I was young, depressed, a self harmer, and thinking about what killing myself would be like/do for me, I never ONCE thought that no one else had ever felt pain. I knew they had. I knew people had much worse lives than I did. That did nothing to change how I felt, how much people did not understand what I was going through, how much I hurt, the self loathing I felt.

 

You are so ignorant.

 

We're different people. We'll think differently alright? I'm just stating my opinion, and you're not inclined to believe it's right. I don't have stats, but that's what my health teacher told our class. And even though I know that sounds quiet silly, it's quiet true. Show me what you've read about cause I'm quiet curious myself. I, myself, when I was younger I had a rough life and still now I do. And yes, I knew that people around me had a worst situation. I can't really state the reason why I tried to suicide because it's personal, but I knew the reason why I tried was because I wanted people to understand how much I was going through. I wanted people to know that I was serious when I said I was going through this pain. And I wanted people to regret the fact that they didn't listen to me. I know that not everyone is me, but I'm pretty sure that most people who suicide share the same reason, AGAIN I'm not saying everyone.

 

I believe that people who suicide obviously do what they do because they believe that they have nothing to live in life. But isn't that closing your mind up and just saying it's all pain? There's a lot in the world to love, you just got to appreciate what you have and work the hardest you can for the best of tomorrow.

 

And go ahead and call me ignorant, because it may be true. I'm merely just stating my opinion and never said that I required people to believe I am right.

[Saxen]

You need to understand that it's not /just/ about having a tough life, there are actual biological reasons why people have mental health problems and disorders, as in chemical imbalances in the brain that can lead people to take drastic measures to make it all stop.

 

I'm sorry that you have had a sad past, but your reasons for doing what you did are only that - your reasons. Your rant about the ignorance and stupidity of suicide is hurtful to those who don't share your particular history, and have other reasons for doing what they did.

 

(Deleted the last part, I'm letting myself get angry. Not good XD)

[Biohazard]

Sooo... you're saying that because there are other more tragic things happening in the world that means what, someone isn't allowed to be depressed?? By proxy that also means then that you believe someone cant be truly happy, because other people are in better situations and happier than you are.

 

You have no idea what mental illness is, clearly, and you preaching about ignorance is actually pretty laughable.

I never ever stated that people have no right to be depressed. And I don't understand your second point, can you please rephrase that?

 

I don't in fact, but even though I lack knowledge of this. Look, if you had a friend who had a 'mental illness' and was planning to suicide, would you encourage her to? Or would you tell her not to? I mean from my perspective it seems like you're saying, "Well, since that person has a mental illness they only have one road and that's suicide." So what if they have a mental illness? Is that going to control their way of thinking, whatever happened to their own mind?

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't suicide, I'm saying it's not worth it. I know people are unfortunate and are sometimes born with mental illnesses, but I believe that no disease should be telling you what to do and where to roll your life.

 

@ Saxen the response above is also the same to your latest response so yeah. xD

 

 

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[Saxen]

I never ever stated that people have no right to be depressed. And I don't understand your second point, can you please rephrase that?

 

I don't in fact, but even though I lack knowledge of this. Look, if you had a friend who had a 'mental illness' and was planning to suicide, would you encourage her to? Or would you tell her not to? I mean from my perspective it seems like you're saying, "Well, since that person has a mental illness they only have one road and that's suicide." So what if they have a mental illness? Is that going to control their way of thinking, whatever happened to their own mind?

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't suicide, I'm saying it's not worth it. I know people are unfortunate and are sometimes born with mental illnesses, but I believe that no disease should be telling you what to do and where to roll your life.

 

Well it is selfish to be honest. Because there's a lot of people around the world who are living a much more tragic life than some people, though they don't give up.

 

^ That was what prompted my first statement.

 

For goodness sake, no. That's obviously not what I'm saying. And it isn't 'mental illness', it's Mental Illness. Of course I would encourage her to get help from professionals, but if her inner turmoil was so severe that she was desperate for death she would find a way to do it. - I don't even know where you got that from in the first place to be honest, where did I say that?

YES - that is the exact point I'm trying to make, it DOES control your way of thinking. Thank you for saying that. What happened to her own mind is that it's ill, and even though you cant visibly see it, it's still there. Hence why they call these sorts of things Invisible Illnessess.

 

You're not saying people shouldn't commit suicide... what?! I thought that was your whole sodding point!! You may be able to see the worth in life, but those of us who suffer cant or at least find it extremely difficult. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend??

[Rebecca~]

That maybe true and that maybe not. I'm not a kid anymore so I don't have any reason to decline that. But as I said, isn't it more about understand the importance of life than death?

 

Well, I experienced this first hand and of course I understand that some people don't believe that there's any help out there. And yes, I understand that there's people who are born with unfortunate lives. But there's alot of people with lives like that, life isn't easy obviously. I admit that I have a horrible life and that sometimes I feel that there's no hope. But what keep me from suiciding is trying to live my life the best I can be for the people are not as fortunate as me. Because I know that there's some people around the world who'd rather have my life than their's. To suicide because I believe that my life is bad is not understanding others, and their situation.

 

There's many people who're famous right now even though they've had the most worst life ever, take Nicki Minaj for example. Even though she's gone through a rough path, that didn't stop her from being successful. There's other people as well like Eminem, Lil Wayne, President Lincoln and Obama. It's just a matter of having hope in yourself and not giving up, because there's always light at the end of every tunnel. Some people are just so busy staring at the dark that they don't realize right behind them that there's an open door.

 

And also, if you knew this woman was going through such a terrible life style then why didn't you help her?

 

 

 

We're different people. We'll think differently alright? I'm just stating my opinion, and you're not inclined to believe it's right. I don't have stats, but that's what my health teacher told our class. And even though I know that sounds quiet silly, it's quiet true. Show me what you've read about cause I'm quiet curious myself. I, myself, when I was younger I had a rough life and still now I do. And yes, I knew that people around me had a worst situation. I can't really state the reason why I tried to suicide because it's personal, but I knew the reason why I tried was because I wanted people to understand how much I was going through. I wanted people to know that I was serious when I said I was going through this pain. And I wanted people to regret the fact that they didn't listen to me. I know that not everyone is me, but I'm pretty sure that most people who suicide share the same reason, AGAIN I'm not saying everyone.

 

I believe that people who suicide obviously do what they do because they believe that they have nothing to live in life. But isn't that closing your mind up and just saying it's all pain? There's a lot in the world to love, you just got to appreciate what you have and work the hardest you can for the best of tomorrow.

 

And go ahead and call me ignorant, because it may be true. I'm merely just stating my opinion and never said that I required people to believe I am right.

Well, I'm glad that you were able to keep yourself from committing suicide because other people had worse lives. When I was depressed though, and I know my girlfriend found this to be true as well, being told that other people had it worse just made me feel like an even larger piece of crap. I knew that lots of people had terrible lives, were living through wars, were kept in terrible living conditions, didn't have enough food, weren't given an education, etc, but none of that changed how I felt at that given moment. I couldn't foresee a future where I made my own life better, how the hell could I improve the lives of others?

 

I did what I could for my friend. I was also young though, and I had little trust in authority figures, the same as she.

 

I found one source, about child suicide.

Many people have thought that the main reason that children and adolescents try to kill themselves is to manipulate others or get attention or as a "cry for help". However, when children and adolescents are actually asked right after their suicide attempts, their reasons for trying suicide are more like adults. For a third, their main reason for trying to kill themselves is they wanted to die. Another third wanted to escape from a hopeless situation or a horrible state of mind. Only about 10% were trying to get attention. Only 2% saw getting help as the chief reason for trying suicide. The children who truly wanted to die were more depressed, more angry, and were more perfectionistic. Furthermore, most children and adolescents who try suicide believe that the method they have chosen will really kill them.

Your health teacher was completely wrong. You can go correct them, tell them the truth, so they don't continue spreading falsehoods to further students.

Further sources I don't have on hand- lectures from various professors, textbooks I no longer own, etc.

 

For some people, life is only pain. Just because you were trying to commit suicide for attention, and apparently were able to just get over it, doesn't mean that everyone can.

When you are depressed you can't see the light, the hope. It's like living inside of a storm. You can't see the sun. It rains for weeks, or months on end, and you start thinking that there will never be sun again.

 

I don't agree at all. I don't think that most people who try to commit suicide share the same reasoning as you. I think that most people who commit suicide hurt so badly, for so many reasons, and just want to have a little peace.

There is a lot in this world to love, but it can be so, so hard to see when you hate yourself, you feel as if the world hates you, and every moment of every day is a struggle just to live.

[Biohazard]

Well to be honest, there's no point in having me reply to the above because you guys obviously have more facts than I do. ( I did read them though. ) I believe that suicide is not the right choice because of the reasons I stated on my first post, whether you believe it's biased or not and that's that.

 

I personally believe that there's always hope even though there's things in life that drag us behind in life.

 

I know that you'll never agree with what I say and I'll never with what you say, because we've gone through different perspectives so I'll just leave it as that. I do appreciate you guys taking the time to share your facts and opinions though. :laughingsmiley: Bye. :)

[Saxen]

Fair enough, you have your own opinion. I agree that suicide is not the 'right choice', and your arguments are somewhat valid (imo), but you fail to have a deeper understanding of the utter hopelessness that can come with some mental illness, and that having these illnesses is not a decision we made or something we can simply snap out of given a bit of perspective on life. There's something somebody said that really rings true here;

 

Having a mental illness is no different than having a broken leg. If someone you loved was on crutches, would you tell them to "just run"?

[Rebecca~]

Fair enough, you have your own opinion. I agree that suicide is not the 'right choice', and your arguments are somewhat valid (imo), but you fail to have a deeper understanding of the utter hopelessness that can come with some mental illness, and that having these illnesses is not a decision we made or something we can simply snap out of given a bit of perspective on life. There's something somebody said that really rings true here;

 

Having a mental illness is no different than having a broken leg. If someone you loved was on crutches, would you tell them to "just run"?

Yes!

I don't think that anyone would say that suicide is the right choice. In an ideal world no one would commit suicide. It's heart breaking to lose loved ones. But this is not an ideal world. If given the chance, people should try to keep people from killing themselves. But shaming them, telling them they are selfish for wanting to end the pain... that is not the way to do it.

 

I hope that Biohazard doesn't have to learn first hand how difficult it is to live with a Mental Illness.

[Biohazard]

I feel like trolling and saying, "Y U GUYS GANGING UP ON ME BRO. IM JUS A KID."

Oh I just did. :mellow:

[Saxen]

You should watch this speech, I think it would help you to understand a little bit better;

 

 

It's about Borderline Personality Disorder but I think it can be applied to most mental illness.

 

I feel like trolling and saying, "Y U GUYS GANGING UP ON ME BRO. IM JUS A KID."

Oh I just did. :mellow:

 

Yeah, seems like it!

[Rebecca~]

You should watch this speech, I think it would help you to understand a little bit better;

 

 

It's about Borderline Personality Disorder but I think it can be applied to most mental illness.

;____;

What a moving speech.

 

I feel like trolling and saying, "Y U GUYS GANGING UP ON ME BRO. IM JUS A KID."

Oh I just did. :mellow:

You may just be a kid, but you should probably get your facts straight before trying to debate them. If you tried to debate this with your arguement in a school debate, you would get a failing grade.

[Biohazard]

To be honest, I wasn't planning on debating even though this is the debate section. Kind of just wanted to share my opinion. >>;; Debates aren't all about facts and stuff, even though they are important. I just decided to use more ethos & pathos. What's wrong about that?

 

Kind of offended. >>;;

[Rebecca~]

... You weren't planning on debating in the debate forum? What are you doing here then? You can come post your thoughts, sure, but you have to be willing to back it up. You can't get upset becuase people with actual facts disagree with your opinions.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I know people are unfortunate and are sometimes born with mental illnesses, but I believe that no disease should be telling you what to do and where to roll your life.

 

You may believe that. But unfortunately for the people who actually have diseases, that is exactly how a disease works. They cannot agree with what you say because they have actually experienced it.

 

I have lived with an autoimmune disease for the past...well, indeterminate number of years, but the symptoms cropped up severely about six years ago. These days, I lack most motion in my hips, and there is nerve damage in my feet. No disease should be telling me what to do and where to roll my life, hmm? Well, it's telling me that I can't walk very well. It's telling me I cannot stand on my tiptoes. It's telling me that I will never again be able to feel my toes again. And no matter how hard I try to tell myself I can, I can't. I just fall on my face and fracture my spine. (Which happened quite recently on a subway.)

 

Mental/emotional disease is similar. It's a disease. There may be things you can do to help, but you cannot simply defeat it just because some person on the internet doesn't believe that it really affects you as much as you think.

 

Let's rewind back to six years ago, when my symptoms cropped up. It's an autoimmune disease--that means it can pull all sorts of random stuff. Couple that with a Vitamin B12 deficiency, and I was pretty much screwed. I had double vision, problems with my balance...and amnesia. The bouts of amnesia did not last long, but they happened. And just because some person on the internet says that no disease can control your life...did not mean that I could remember anything during those times. It is terrifying.

 

Let's rewind back even further, long before my diagnosis. I had severe scoliosis--mild in comparison to my autoimmune disease, but still annoying. Wearing a backbrace during seven hours of school can really get you down, because sitting is the worst position possible. You can't breathe. It's obnoxious. So after seven hours of school, you can understand why I would want to go lie down and not do homework, right?

 

You might understand, but my mother did not. She got me a diagnosis with ADD--an absolutely false one, I might add. Every time I argued and used examples of how well-focused I am, she would reply that people with ADD tend to hyper-focus on things they enjoy. Yes, mother, because I positively enjoy reading the dictionary. She really just wanted me to have the drugs in hopes that I would stop embarrassing her by not doing my homework.

 

So she drugged me. Dexedrine, Concerta, Adderall, I've had them all. They took a severe toll on my physical and mental health. At the times when she was forcing the pills down my throat, I got down to a BMI below 13. BMI doesn't really mean anything when it comes to obesity, but it is useful for low weight. Because of my low weight, too, the side effects got really strong.

 

I don't really want to go into detail on this, and I'm sure you can understand why. But when the hallucinations started getting really bad, I wanted to commit suicide to protect other people from the possibility that I might become harmful to them.

 

How's that for mental illness?

 

I feel like trolling and saying, "Y U GUYS GANGING UP ON ME BRO. IM JUS A KID."

Oh I just did. :mellow:

Hang on, wait for it...I'm going to find the quote...wait...I'll be back in a minute.

I'm not a kid anymore so I don't have any reason to decline that.

 

 

HOLY SMOKES, BATMAN, BIOHAZARD GOT HIS HEAD STUCK IN THAT JAR FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF MYSTERIES, AND HE TURNED INTO A KID AGAIN!

[Dynohawk]

Well it is selfish to be honest. Because there's a lot of people around the world who are living a much more tragic life than some people, though they don't give up. I believe that it is being ignorant to think that you're the only one going through that much pain. Most people suicide for attention. You say that that person is living through pain, but isn't everyone? That person just needs to open their mind instead of thinking about how horrible their life is and go seek help.

 

 

Incredibly weak reasoning, what's other peopels suffering got to do with anything? And why on earth would someone commit suicide for attention? they'd be dead. That makes no sense. It's ironic you say people need to open their mind, you need to open yours and understand people with depression, or people going through devasting life changing situations (like losing a child) it's not as easy as to say 'oh they should just go get help.

[Rebecca~]

You may believe that. But unfortunately for the people who actually have diseases, that is exactly how a disease works. They cannot agree with what you say because they have actually experienced it.

 

I have lived with an autoimmune disease for the past...well, indeterminate number of years, but the symptoms cropped up severely about six years ago. These days, I lack most motion in my hips, and there is nerve damage in my feet. No disease should be telling me what to do and where to roll my life, hmm? Well, it's telling me that I can't walk very well. It's telling me I cannot stand on my tiptoes. It's telling me that I will never again be able to feel my toes again. And no matter how hard I try to tell myself I can, I can't. I just fall on my face and fracture my spine. (Which happened quite recently on a subway.)

 

Mental/emotional disease is similar. It's a disease. There may be things you can do to help, but you cannot simply defeat it just because some person on the internet doesn't believe that it really affects you as much as you think.

 

Let's rewind back to six years ago, when my symptoms cropped up. It's an autoimmune disease--that means it can pull all sorts of random stuff. Couple that with a Vitamin B12 deficiency, and I was pretty much screwed. I had double vision, problems with my balance...and amnesia. The bouts of amnesia did not last long, but they happened. And just because some person on the internet says that no disease can control your life...did not mean that I could remember anything during those times. It is terrifying.

 

Let's rewind back even further, long before my diagnosis. I had severe scoliosis--mild in comparison to my autoimmune disease, but still annoying. Wearing a backbrace during seven hours of school can really get you down, because sitting is the worst position possible. You can't breathe. It's obnoxious. So after seven hours of school, you can understand why I would want to go lie down and not do homework, right?

 

You might understand, but my mother did not. She got me a diagnosis with ADD--an absolutely false one, I might add. Every time I argued and used examples of how well-focused I am, she would reply that people with ADD tend to hyper-focus on things they enjoy. Yes, mother, because I positively enjoy reading the dictionary. She really just wanted me to have the drugs in hopes that I would stop embarrassing her by not doing my homework.

 

So she drugged me. Dexedrine, Concerta, Adderall, I've had them all. They took a severe toll on my physical and mental health. At the times when she was forcing the pills down my throat, I got down to a BMI below 13. BMI doesn't really mean anything when it comes to obesity, but it is useful for low weight. Because of my low weight, too, the side effects got really strong.

 

I don't really want to go into detail on this, and I'm sure you can understand why. But when the hallucinations started getting really bad, I wanted to commit suicide to protect other people from the possibility that I might become harmful to them.

 

How's that for mental illness?

 

 

Hang on, wait for it...I'm going to find the quote...wait...I'll be back in a minute.

 

 

 

HOLY SMOKES, BATMAN, BIOHAZARD GOT HIS HEAD STUCK IN THAT JAR FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF MYSTERIES, AND HE TURNED INTO A KID AGAIN!

I am so sorry that all of that happened to you. :( I haven't chatted with you much, but you seem like such a lovely person, and you've had to put up with so much.

 

Also: LOL, HP reference for the win. 8)

[passiflora]

And why on earth would someone commit suicide for attention? they'd be dead. That makes no sense.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the number of people who successfully commit suicide is rather small relative to the number who attempt suicide, and even those who are successful often attempt a number of times before they're successful. Perhaps a more PC term would be a "cry for help" rather than "attention seeking."

 

 

On a separate note, my friend's boyfriend threatened to commit suicide when she broke up with him - he was understandably hurt, but I don't think he ever actually would have went through with it. But it was "we stay together, or I'll kill myself"; almost like a threat. Due to the serious nature of suicide, she told his parents, and the kid got help and they're not together anymore. I won't undermine the seriousness of mental illness or suicide, but there are people out there who erode that. I can't think of any other way to put it than it's extremely immature to coerce people into anything under threat of suicide, and I think it's what gives people the perceptions of "attention seeking" and "selfish." Those are the cases where rumours explode, whereas tragedies and mental illness tend to be more hush-hush, in my experience (unfortunately).

[Rebecca~]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the number of people who successfully commit suicide is rather small relative to the number who attempt suicide, and even those who are successful often attempt a number of times before they're successful. Perhaps a more PC term would be a "cry for help" rather than "attention seeking."

 

 

On a separate note, my friend's boyfriend threatened to commit suicide when she broke up with him - he was understandably hurt, but I don't think he ever actually would have went through with it. But it was "we stay together, or I'll kill myself"; almost like a threat. Due to the serious nature of suicide, she told his parents, and the kid got help and they're not together anymore. I won't undermine the seriousness of mental illness or suicide, but there are people out there who erode that. I can't think of any other way to put it than it's extremely immature to coerce people into anything under threat of suicide, and I think it's what gives people the perceptions of "attention seeking" and "selfish." Those are the cases where rumours explode, whereas tragedies and mental illness tend to be more hush-hush, in my experience (unfortunately).

I agree. People seem to feel uncomfortable talking about Mental Illness, and so they almost... play up the people who seeemingly are just "attention seekers".

And wow, your friend's ex-boyfriend is freaking abusive. I'm glad she didn't go back to him, because who knows what would have happened. :( Coercion like that is a classic sympton of abuse in relationships, and often seems to lead to coercion in their sex life as well, which (in my books, at least!) is rape. (some sources: here, here, and here)

[Saxen]

On a separate note, my friend's boyfriend threatened to commit suicide when she broke up with him - he was understandably hurt, but I don't think he ever actually would have went through with it. But it was "we stay together, or I'll kill myself"; almost like a threat. Due to the serious nature of suicide, she told his parents, and the kid got help and they're not together anymore. I won't undermine the seriousness of mental illness or suicide, but there are people out there who erode that. I can't think of any other way to put it than it's extremely immature to coerce people into anything under threat of suicide, and I think it's what gives people the perceptions of "attention seeking" and "selfish." Those are the cases where rumours explode, whereas tragedies and mental illness tend to be more hush-hush, in my experience (unfortunately).

 

I agree. People seem to feel uncomfortable talking about Mental Illness, and so they almost... play up the people who seeemingly are just "attention seekers".

And wow, your friend's ex-boyfriend is freaking abusive. I'm glad she didn't go back to him, because who knows what would have happened. :( Coercion like that is a classic sympton of abuse in relationships, and often seems to lead to coercion in their sex life as well, which (in my books, at least!) is rape. (some sources: here, here, and here)

 

Manipulation is a tricky thing. I wouldn't say that person was abusive, they were obviously in intense emotional distress when they said that and to mention rape just because someone said they want to kill themselves isn't really cricket. This sort of behavior is really common with Borderline, and we don't do it because we're immature or to get attention, we do it because we have no idea how to express our emotions healthily because we were never taught. I've said that to my current partner and to the outside world that may look like what you said, but at that point that would have been the case, I wasn't just saying it. Obviously people are different, but it just sounds to me like this person didn't know how to handle being left, and you never know, he might have been serious. I'm glad he's got some help and is okay now.

 

Edit: Rachel you should watch that video I sent, there's loads of stuff about manipulation in there. If you want to check it out Passiflora it's called "Back from the Edge" and it's on youtube.

[Rebecca~]

Manipulation is a tricky thing. I wouldn't say that person was abusive, they were obviously in intense emotional distress when they said that and to mention rape just because someone said they want to kill themselves isn't really cricket. This sort of behavior is really common with Borderline, and we don't do it because we're immature or to get attention, we do it because we have no idea how to express our emotions healthily because we were never taught. I've said that to my current partner and to the outside world that may look like what you said, but at that point that would have been the case, I wasn't just saying it. Obviously people are different, but it just sounds to me like this person didn't know how to handle being left, and you never know, he might have been serious. I'm glad he's got some help and is okay now.

 

Edit: Rachel you should watch that video I sent, there's loads of stuff about manipulation in there. If you want to check it out Passiflora it's called "Back from the Edge" and it's on youtube.

I didn't mean to imply that the ex-boyfriend was a rapist. I just know that a lot of people whom use manipulation to keep partners from leaving will use manipulations in every area of their relationships-- and it is horribly common when it comes to their sex lives. :( It's a horrible situation, and I know a lot of people in real life that don't take coercion from romantic partners very seriously, so I kind of tend to go... well, perhaps a little overboard in pointing it out to people.

A good friend of mine was constantly manipulated and coerced into doing various things, including sex, by an ex-boyfriend. As far as she was aware, he didn't have any Mental Illness- he was just a horrible person whom felt that what he wanted was the only thing that mattered.

But you're right, there are lots of people that don't have the ability to express emotions healthily, and it may seem to be kind of abusive to outsiders. I shouldn't be so quick to kind of jump at it. I'm sorry. :(

(The video is on my list for tomorrow morning! Had a busy couple of days. :3)

[passiflora]

Manipulation is a tricky thing. I wouldn't say that person was abusive, they were obviously in intense emotional distress when they said that and to mention rape just because someone said they want to kill themselves isn't really cricket. This sort of behavior is really common with Borderline, and we don't do it because we're immature or to get attention, we do it because we have no idea how to express our emotions healthily because we were never taught. I've said that to my current partner and to the outside world that may look like what you said, but at that point that would have been the case, I wasn't just saying it. Obviously people are different, but it just sounds to me like this person didn't know how to handle being left, and you never know, he might have been serious. I'm glad he's got some help and is okay now.

 

Edit: Rachel you should watch that video I sent, there's loads of stuff about manipulation in there. If you want to check it out Passiflora it's called "Back from the Edge" and it's on youtube.

While I might not use the term abusive, it's still definitely coercion and I can't help but find it unfair to the party on the "receiving" end of the threat.

 

You're absolutely right that some people may not know how to express their emotions, and that could definitely have been the case. Like I said, I don't want to undermine the seriousness of suicide or mental illness (that's why my friend told someone instead of simply dismissing it), but I think it's also safe to say that there are also cases where people simply threaten suicide with ulterior motives and little intention of actually following through. This guy was obviously distressed, but has never been diagnosed with BPD or any other mental illness, and exhibited no other current or past history of depression, self harm, suicidal tendencies, or other related signs/symptoms.

 

 

That case aside, my main point is that there are reasons why people believe suicide is largely "selfish", however mislead that usually is.

 

 

 

I'll also have to watch that video. :) Thanks!