Abortion.

[Sweetdang]

I can't stand abortion, NOONE FORCED YOU TO HAVE A CHILD PEOPLE, sorry about the all caps, but It makes me so mad. :grrr:

Rape. An abnormal child that would require you to move overseas to live and then would die soon after. (My aunt's experience) A child that if conceived would have a 80% chance of killing the mother, plus not making it. A child that needs to be aborted because of safety reasons. (My mom's experience. A child that would NEED to be aborted.

 

The taking of an innocent life from an irresponsible couple makes me mad. The abortion of a child that is the result of a sick, sick man, and a now emotionally unbalanced, hurt, and affected woman makes me sad.

[DeAndra]

I think abortion is okay depending on the circumstances. (rape, etc.)

Other than circumstances of those, being a new mother, I cannot agree that a woman should willingly get rid of her child.

You had the responsibility to lay down and have unprotected intercourse, then you should have the responisibilty to take care of what comes with it.

I feel like it is a matter of maturity. Most people who seek abortions are young girls. If you are mature enough to have sex, then be prepared for the baby if you are doing it without protection.

I just cannot agree with abortion unless it is in the extreme case of some type of sexual abuse.

I look at my daughter now and couldn't imagine how anyone could really kill a child before it even had a chance to enter the world.

[Russ]

I think abortion is okay depending on the circumstances. (rape, etc.)

Other than circumstances of those, being a new mother, I cannot agree that a woman should willingly get rid of her child.

You had the responsibility to lay down and have unprotected intercourse, then you should have the responisibilty to take care of what comes with it.

I feel like it is a matter of maturity. Most people who seek abortions are young girls. If you are mature enough to have sex, then be prepared for the baby if you are doing it without protection.

I just cannot agree with abortion unless it is in the extreme case of some type of sexual abuse.

I look at my daughter now and couldn't imagine how anyone could really kill a child before it even had a chance to enter the world.

 

I'll ignore the whole "child vs fetus" debate because I don't really feel like getting into that one, but what you're saying is basically a more eloquent and kindly-worded version of "People who are too irresponsible to use protection should be punished with the kid", which - like I said earlier - is disgusting, cruel, and dehumanizes the child much more than aborting it would.

 

I can understand where you're coming from on a moral level, but what about legally? Do you believe, because of your moral stance on abortion, that it should be illegal except for the extreme cases like rape, etc.?

[AKALeenaLean]

Abortion be legal when:

 

There is rape: Yes

 

Unprotected sex: If they know about barriers, no

 

Unprotected sex: If they don't know about barriers, maybe

 

Can't afford the child: Yes

 

Can't think of more, but overall it's a choice and stability in life

[Sweetdang]

Personally, I think that if they can't afford the child, they can still give birth it it, then give it to the orphanage. Better a life then none at all.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Abortion be legal when:

 

There is rape: Yes

 

Unprotected sex: If they know about barriers, no

 

Unprotected sex: If they don't know about barriers, maybe

 

Can't afford the child: Yes

 

Can't think of more, but overall it's a choice and stability in life

 

The issue remains, though...how would you enforce it? How would you prove that someone got raped or did not get raped? How would you prove that the sex was unprotected?

 

That's the problem with legality vs. morality. People say you can't legislate morality--well, I think you can, as long as morality is based on principles that everyone has. (Okay, most people are against cheating, but I guess we can't make cheating on a spouse illegal.) By "you can" I mean that you should be allowed to. Unfortunately, at the same time, you can't legislate morality simply because it's impossible to regulate.

 

If you worry about the rape issue: Say a girl comes in and says she is pregnant, wants an abortion, and was raped. Are you automatically going to believe her? Will you make her prove it? If the rape went unreported because she was ashamed, then there is no physical evidence anymore to prove it. Other than, you know, the baby in her belly, and it's a little difficult to do a DNA test on that to find out who the father is and you can't even prove it wasn't consensual. So you can't make a girl prove she was raped. On the flip side, that means that any girl can come in and lie, saying she was raped. And honestly, this frightens me a lot too, because if there are tests done, and they CAN figure out who the father is, then the father could get in major trouble for something that was potentially consensual. Rape is a horrible thing, but being falsely accused of rape is a horrible thing too--one that destroys you emotionally AS WELL AS destroying your entire life. Even when you're out of jail, you can't get a job, and you can't live a lot of places because you're labeled a sex offender.

 

(This is why I always feel bad for male teachers. There have been many cases of a teacher getting fired and never being able to teach again because some rich girl got a bad grade and then said he molested her.)

 

If you're worried about protection: There will NEVER be a way to prove it. Birth control pills are very effective, but 1 in every 1000 cases, it's NOT effective. (This doesn't mean that 1 out of every 1000 girls who takes BC will get pregnant; it means that the chance of getting pregnant is 0.1% the chance of getting pregnant when NOT on it. But it's still not 100% effective!) Condoms--which should definitely be used for one-night stands or sex with someone whose sexual history you are unsure of--are only 85% effective. They break. Accidents happen.

 

If you're worried about sexual knowledge: you can regulate what type of sex ed students are getting, but that's about it.

[Russ]

Abortion be legal when:

 

There is rape: Yes

 

Unprotected sex: If they know about barriers, no

 

Unprotected sex: If they don't know about barriers, maybe

 

Can't afford the child: Yes

 

Can't think of more, but overall it's a choice and stability in life

 

And how are you going to prove whether they used protection or were aware of it? There is literally no way to regulate it like you're saying we should.

[DeAndra]

I'll ignore the whole "child vs fetus" debate because I don't really feel like getting into that one, but what you're saying is basically a more eloquent and kindly-worded version of "People who are too irresponsible to use protection should be punished with the kid", which - like I said earlier - is disgusting, cruel, and dehumanizes the child much more than aborting it would.

 

I can understand where you're coming from on a moral level, but what about legally? Do you believe, because of your moral stance on abortion, that it should be illegal except for the extreme cases like rape, etc.?

 

Never said it should be illegal. Just don't agree with it. I am not saying that everyone should be forced to keep the child, but I mean there are other options if you cannot afford it. Give it up for adoption or something. I am just saying that a life shouldn't be extinguished from the world just because someone is being selfish.

Let's be serious, abortion is not cheap by any means. The money you use to have an abortion could be used to just have the baby and let it be adopted by some people who would actually enjoy that child's company.

I am not saying to punish anyone with a child, but you laid down, you ahd unportected intercourse, so just have the baby and give it up if you don't want it.

[DeAndra]

Personally, I think that if they can't afford the child, they can still give birth it it, then give it to the orphanage. Better a life then none at all.

This is my exact point . I am just saying you should just have the baby. Give it up, but still have it. A child deserves a chance at life, weren't we all given one?

[Vivies]

Never said it should be illegal. Just don't agree with it. I am not saying that everyone should be forced to keep the child, but I mean there are other options if you cannot afford it. Give it up for adoption or something. I am just saying that a life shouldn't be extinguished from the world just because someone is being selfish.

Let's be serious, abortion is not cheap by any means. The money you use to have an abortion could be used to just have the baby and let it be adopted by some people who would actually enjoy that child's company.

I am not saying to punish anyone with a child, but you laid down, you ahd unportected intercourse, so just have the baby and give it up if you don't want it.

 

I have to disagree. The cost of abortion versus the cost of pregnancy and delivery are not the same. And orphanages/fosters homes are already crowded. People act like adoption is just so much easier than abortion. Why isn't there the same amount of stigma surrounding giving up a living, breathing being? I'm not saying there should be, I just think it's interesting.

 

Some people believe life begins at conception, which is where most of the moral objection comes in, it seems.

Carrying a child to term is not something anyone should be forced to do as a "lesson." Babies/children/parenthood should not be viewed as a consequence or punishment.

[DeAndra]

I have to disagree. The cost of abortion versus the cost of pregnancy and delivery are not the same. And orphanages/fosters homes are already crowded. People act like adoption is just so much easier than abortion. Why isn't there the same amount of stigma surrounding giving up a living, breathing being? I'm not saying there should be, I just think it's interesting.

 

Some people believe life begins at conception, which is where most of the moral objection comes in, it seems.

Carrying a child to term is not something anyone should be forced to do as a "lesson." Babies/children/parenthood should not be viewed as a consequence or punishment.

 

Personally, as a mother I do not view it as a punishment. My child was unplanned and maybe things weren't exactly the way I wanted but I had her and kept her and love her, I couldn't ask for a better blessing.

I am not saying everyone should rush off and give up their children, I am just saying that children should at least be given a chance at life like we were all given a chance.

Imagine if that was us in the womb and our parents murdered us before we even had a chance to come into this world.

I just cannot agree with aborton on any level unless it is an abortion because of sexual abuse.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Personally, as a mother I do not view it as a punishment. My child was unplanned and maybe things weren't exactly the way I wanted but I had her and kept her and love her, I couldn't ask for a better blessing.

I am not saying everyone should rush off and give up their children, I am just saying that children should at least be given a chance at life like we were all given a chance.

Imagine if that was us in the womb and our parents murdered us before we even had a chance to come into this world.

 

You do not view it as punishment because you chose the choice you preferred. Therefore, I'm certain your daughter is being brought up well and has a caring, responsible mother.

 

I feel I'm very lucky. I was a planned and wanted child. My parents were not incredibly rich, but we were definitely well-off. We had a house, both my parents had jobs (still do, in fact) but they were still there to be parents. My husband was not a planned child, but at least he was a wanted one--his mother COULD have aborted him had she wanted to (the option was available) but she didn't because she chose to keep him.

[DeAndra]

You do not view it as punishment because you chose the choice you preferred. Therefore, I'm certain your daughter is being brought up well and has a caring, responsible mother.

 

I feel I'm very lucky. I was a planned and wanted child. My parents were not incredibly rich, but we were definitely well-off. We had a house, both my parents had jobs (still do, in fact) but they were still there to be parents. My husband was not a planned child, but at least he was a wanted one--his mother COULD have aborted him had she wanted to (the option was available) but she didn't because she chose to keep him.

I just feel like even if you do not WANT the child, you should at least just let it live. Everyone deserves a chance at life.

I was unplanned but very much wanted.

I don't feel as though anyone should be forced to keep a child they do not want. But I do just wish some of the mothers who consider abortion, would also consider adoption.

[Russ]

Never said it should be illegal. Just don't agree with it. I am not saying that everyone should be forced to keep the child, but I mean there are other options if you cannot afford it. Give it up for adoption or something. I am just saying that a life shouldn't be extinguished from the world just because someone is being selfish.

Let's be serious, abortion is not cheap by any means. The money you use to have an abortion could be used to just have the baby and let it be adopted by some people who would actually enjoy that child's company.

I am not saying to punish anyone with a child, but you laid down, you ahd unportected intercourse, so just have the baby and give it up if you don't want it.

 

I know you didn't say that it should be illegal, I was asking whether you thought it should be or simply disagreed with it morally. I disagree with your moral perspective on it but see where you're coming from as well.

 

I just feel like even if you do not WANT the child, you should at least just let it live. Everyone deserves a chance at life.

I was unplanned but very much wanted.

I don't feel as though anyone should be forced to keep a child they do not want. But I do just wish some of the mothers who consider abortion, would also consider adoption.

 

I'm sure that in 99% of cases (there are obviously the trashy people who go out, have tons of sex and get an abortion and don't care, but they are a VAST minority) they do. It's incredibly unfair to stereotype all women who get abortions as people who simply didn't want a kid and aborted it without a second thought because more often than not, they give it many, many thoughts even years later.

[DeAndra]

I know you didn't say that it should be illegal, I was asking whether you thought it should be or simply disagreed with it morally. I disagree with your moral perspective on it but see where you're coming from as well.

 

 

 

I'm sure that in 99% of cases (there are obviously the trashy people who go out, have tons of sex and get an abortion and don't care, but they are a VAST minority) they do. It's incredibly unfair to stereotype all women who get abortions as people who simply didn't want a kid and aborted it without a second thought because more often than not, they give it many, many thoughts even years later.

 

Morally I just find it wrong. I know everyone is like oh at a certain point it isn't living yet. But at the 6th week the child has a heartbeat, is growing limbs. That's killing a being. I just can't agree with it in a moral sense.

 

And I am sure not everyone just runs off getting abortions and by no means do I stereotype anyone who does get them. My best friend just got one recently andI just told her to do what she felt was right. I'm not one of those people who will shove down everyone's throats that abortion is wrong and ungodly or anything. I just tell them personaly, I can't agree. But to whomever does so, always consider all options. :)

[Russ]

Morally I just find it wrong. I know everyone is like oh at a certain point it isn't living yet. But at the 6th week the child has a heartbeat, is growing limbs. That's killing a being. I just can't agree with it in a moral sense.

 

And I am sure not everyone just runs off getting abortions and by no means do I stereotype anyone who does get them. My best friend just got one recently andI just told her to do what she felt was right. I'm not one of those people who will shove down everyone's throats that abortion is wrong and ungodly or anything. I just tell them personaly, I can't agree. But to whomever does so, always consider all options. :)

 

Which I totally understand, I personally just disagree because I value the rights of a living human being more.

 

Well that's good, then. I thought you were coming off as a bit judgmental in some of your earlier posts but that's clearly not the case. It's fine to disagree as long as you aren't one of those people who goes around shoving it down people's throats or guilting them or making it illegal, which you clearly aren't.

[DeAndra]

Which I totally understand, I personally just disagree because I value the rights of a living human being more.

 

Well that's good, then. I thought you were coming off as a bit judgmental in some of your earlier posts but that's clearly not the case. It's fine to disagree as long as you aren't one of those people who goes around shoving it down people's throats or guilting them or making it illegal, which you clearly aren't.

 

Oh no. It's everyone's business what they wish to do with their bodies. But I always inform that there are always other options before making the one that is most drastic. And I don't only see it from the child's suffering but also from people realizing that when you abort the child it may be something you regret forever. So you should really think about things liek that thoroughly before making a firm decision on getting rid of your baby. Cause once that one is gone, you will not get that specific child back, and you never know what it could have been.

[Naamah D.]

What if getting pregnant isn't the mother's fault? What if she was raped? It really depends on the situation.

[Emily]

Cause once that one is gone, you will not get that specific child back, and you never know what it could have been.

 

That right there is why choosing abortion is one of the hardest decisions a prospective mother will ever have to make. And that's why I morally agree with it. People who have not been through it, or have even had to consider it don't know the emotional toll it can take on a woman for the rest of her life. The friend I mentioned before has told me how often she thinks about her decision. Daily, she sees things that reminds her of what she did. But in her situation (very little money, no stable living arrangement, no familial support, etc etc), she felt like it was the best option. She considered adoption as well.

 

In an open adoption, the child is fully aware of having been adopted. She said she wouldn't ever want a child to feel like s/he was given up.

 

In a closed adoption, it's the adoptive parents decision to choose whether to tell the child s/he was adopted. if they tell her/him, then the problem of an open adoption arises. If the child is never told, however, s/he goes through life not really knowing who s/he is. She says this wasn't fair to the child.

 

She chose abortion for the child, not for herself. She said there was no way she could give a child the life s/he deserves. I respect her tremendously for that. Now, she's left dealing with this fact the rest of her life. I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. It isn't a one-time decision and then it goes away. You live with your choice forever.

[DeAndra]

What if getting pregnant isn't the mother's fault? What if she was raped? It really depends on the situation.

We covered that aspect. We all agreed abortion in that case is absolutely acceptable.

[DeAndra]

That right there is why choosing abortion is one of the hardest decisions a prospective mother will ever have to make. And that's why I morally agree with it. People who have not been through it, or have even had to consider it don't know the emotional toll it can take on a woman for the rest of her life. The friend I mentioned before has told me how often she thinks about her decision. Daily, she sees things that reminds her of what she did. But in her situation (very little money, no stable living arrangement, no familial support, etc etc), she felt like it was the best option. She considered adoption as well.

 

In an open adoption, the child is fully aware of having been adopted. She said she wouldn't ever want a child to feel like s/he was given up.

 

In a closed adoption, it's the adoptive parents decision to choose whether to tell the child s/he was adopted. if they tell her/him, then the problem of an open adoption arises. If the child is never told, however, s/he goes through life not really knowing who s/he is. She says this wasn't fair to the child.

 

She chose abortion for the child, not for herself. She said there was no way she could give a child the life s/he deserves. I respect her tremendously for that. Now, she's left dealing with this fact the rest of her life. I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. It isn't a one-time decision and then it goes away. You live with your choice forever.

This is all so true. And I am sorry she is having such a hard time. ABortion is an emotional toll on all involved. Which is why personally I just wouldn't want anyone to go through it. Too much regret.

[Sweetdang]

I just read through everything on this page. Honestly, we wouldn't even have to debate this if people THOUGHT ABOUT THE CONCEQUENCES.

 

Sick guy with a perverse mindset - why didn't you think of the LIVES you would ruin?

Girl who allowed herself to have sex with her bf because he promised her he would love her forever - Fine, but didn't you consider protection?

Boyfriend who wanted to have sex cause everyone else was doing it - Why. Why subject ANYONE to this terror just so you can be "cool" and "mainstream"?

 

I myself am against Pre marital sex. I can't say anything for others, but please! You all know what will happen if you didn't use protection. Even in the "Heat of the moment" - couldn't you just stop and think for that ONE second to stop the guilt, terror and pain of a LIFETIME? Or maybe not even a lifetime, but a dead, twisted piece of flesh on the bed in front of you.

 

You know how they abort a child? They stick that thing into the vulva, then they remove the BODY, but not the head, because the head's too big. Then they reinsert it, and this time - CRUSH the head so it can be taken out in little pieces. It was a LIVING THING. A LIFE. How can you detach it's head like that, then crush it? Do you know HOW cruel...? If decapitation/capital punishment/ death sentence is BAD, HORRIBLE, WRONG, or only deserving to those who did something WRONG - what did that innocent child, one who could have become beautiful, amazing, and loved - god, it could have been loved - do?

 

Don't tell me about rape, etc, I KNOW the exceptions. I'm talking about the others. The ones who CANNOT be excused.

[Russ]

You know how they abort a child? They stick that thing into the vulva, then they remove the BODY, but not the head, because the head's too big. Then they reinsert it, and this time - CRUSH the head so it can be taken out in little pieces. It was a LIVING THING. A LIFE. How can you detach it's head like that, then crush it? Do you know HOW cruel...? If decapitation/capital punishment/ death sentence is BAD, HORRIBLE, WRONG, or only deserving to those who did something WRONG - what did that innocent child, one who could have become beautiful, amazing, and loved - god, it could have been loved - do?

 

You're talking about partial-birth abortion which is almost objectively an absolutely disgusting process and completely irrelevant to any reasonable debate about abortion.

 

 

Sick guy with a perverse mindset - why didn't you think of the LIVES you would ruin?

Girl who allowed herself to have sex with her bf because he promised her he would love her forever - Fine, but didn't you consider protection?

Boyfriend who wanted to have sex cause everyone else was doing it - Why. Why subject ANYONE to this terror just so you can be "cool" and "mainstream"?

 

So you're implying that the only people who in relationships that end up getting abortions are gross sexist pervert males, trashy guys who want to be "cool", and girls who are much too trusting? That's sexist, stereotypical and downright disgusting of you.

 

 

I myself am against Pre marital sex. I can't say anything for others, but please! You all know what will happen if you didn't use protection. Even in the "Heat of the moment" - couldn't you just stop and think for that ONE second to stop the guilt, terror and pain of a LIFETIME? Or maybe not even a lifetime, but a dead, twisted piece of flesh on the bed in front of you.

 

People do. Did you not read the posts by someone in here who has a friend that got an abortion and thinks about it with incredible guilt every day?

Getting an abortion is an incredibly rough and emotional process, the difficulty of which neither you nor I can even begin to comprehend, and it's incredibly hard enough on the would-be mothers without people like you trying to make them feel like they're a child-murderer because of a choice they feel forced into and will remember for the rest of their lives anyway.

All you're doing in that post is spouting hatred towards abortion and implying hatred towards anyone besides rape victims who gets them, and fear-mongering. If you're going to reply to this then try using facts or well-reasoned arguments instead of caps lock.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

One thing I'd like to add about the premarital sex issue...I don't believe in irresponsible sex, as I've mentioned. I think it's a bad idea for everyone involved. STDs happen, unwanted pregnancies happen, reputations start, etc. To me, irresponsible sex includes unprotected sex, or sex with someone you don't love and trust. Yes, I definitely believe it is irresponsible to have sex with someone you don't love and trust! There are all sorts of consequences that can happen even if you used a condom. Condom breaks, stuff goes down, and now you can't find the person to help you take responsibility. Or else they have some kind of video camera set up in the room and are now putting you up on the internet, so you will never be able to get a job again once said video is discovered. (Paranoid parrot, yes.) I do not find it immoral based on my own life philosophy, though--it is immoral for me personally based on my beliefs about sex, but it's not an immoral thing to do based on my "do no harm" philosophies.

 

Immoral sex is unprotected sex (or nonconsensual sex, but let's ignore that completely since everyone agrees on that, duh) when you don't intend to take responsibility for that action. So I DO find it immoral when two people have sex without using protection and then end up aborting the baby. It's not the abortion itself that is immoral, but the lack of planning that could have easily prevented it from happening.

 

However, you know what else I consider irresponsible? Not believing in premarital sex. It's fine for some, I'm sure, but I find it INCREDIBLY irresponsible and damaging to the institution of marriage. Yes, I said that! I care about the institution of marriage. (No, gay people are not destroying it.) It has a lot of different definitions to a lot of different people, but no matter WHERE you get married or WHAT your marriage is based on, there is definitely a "forever" statement happening. Therefore, I'm against divorce. I'm against divorce in principle, mind you, not legally, because I understand the need to keep it legal. To me, it's like perjury on crack to take a sacred vow and then break it.

 

How is this relevant to what I'm saying? I believe that before you get married, you need to think long and hard about what you're doing. You need to know exactly what a life with the person will be like. You need to know what living with the person is like, and yes, what sex with the person is like. People quote statistics saying that "those who live with their partner before marriage end up divorced more" but this is a statistic that does not control for certain features. Add that to the fact that those who live with their partner before deciding to get married end up HAPPIER with their spouses a year, five years, twenty years into the relationship...add that to a much lower rate of suicide. I'm just saying. Not having sex with the person you love before you make a permanent life decision to stay with them forever is just kind of a bad idea.

 

It also makes for a very painful wedding night. Better make sure you have no horseback riding plans during your honeymoon. I won't gross you out with details, but it took a while for my husband and me to be able to have intercourse because I'm such a tiny person.

[Russ]

I definitely think that saying "Premarital sex is irresponsible" is irresponsible. It's incredibly stupid and irresponsible in my opinion to go around sleeping with people you don't love or trust, but it's not as if you have to be married to somebody in order to love or trust them. If two people agree that they don't want to have sex until they're married, then cool - that's their choice for what's best for their relationship, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But for the vast majority of people, you can't and shouldn't expect them to think that way. I agree with Karina - marriage shouldn't be taken lightly and sex is a huge part of any relationship, and saying that people shouldn't do it until they're married is stupid and arbitrary.

 

I should probably make another topic about this.