!!Abortion!! Good or bad?

[Fuzio]

I swear you people are fools. Idk how you possibly say we should not be debating whether abortion is safe or not. I think determining whether a procedure has a high chance of KILLING you , is very important in deciding whther we should legalize it or not. I swear how else do you possibly defend a viewpoint?

 

You think the website's biased? Find a website that says a women has a higher chance of dying from childbirth than abortion. Plz find a credible webstie that states that. K? THANX. Abortion is not safer than childbirth so abortion should be banned.

 

If a women has an affair? HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SUPPORT THAT SHE HAS AN ABORTION? Now your just using abortion as a birth control so that people don't have to take responsibility for their actions and its consequence. A women has an affair or unsafe sex and she gets pregnant. She just turns to abortion and now has a new form of birth control so she doesn't have to worry about that stupid decision she made and just killed a baby. Nice taking responsibility.

 

That makes no sense Fuzio. How about you reread your post? How do you possibly say that the government should not be allowed to regulate abortion BUT STILL SAY it should not be LEGAL? THAT MEANS THE GOVERNMENT IS REGULATING ABORTION FOR WOMEN. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH? Restate your point of view so it actually makes sense instead of contradicting yourself.

 

 

-sigh-

And do you not understand that I never said I think abortion should be illegal? Never once did I say that.

 

What I said was, I do not think women should have abortions. That is not saying I think they should not be legal, it is simply saying I don't think women should have them.

 

That is not contradicting to saying I also don't feel the government should regulate them.

 

So anything which is deemed, unsafe or harmful, should be illegal? So, j-walking should warrant someone's arrest, as should smoking, or being overweight (as it can kill you). Hey, you said if it's harmful, it should be illegal. (;

 

You also have a chance of dying during any surgery or medical procedure, so should all of those be illegal as well?

[Mira]

-sigh-

And do you not understand that I never said I think abortion should be illegal? Never once did I say that.

 

What I said was, I do not think women should have abortions. That is not saying I think they should not be legal, it is simply saying I don't think women should have them.

 

That is not contradicting to saying I also don't feel the government should regulate them.

 

So anything which is deemed, unsafe or harmful, should be illegal? So, j-walking should warrant someone's arrest, as should smoking, or being overweight (as it can kill you). Hey, you said if it's harmful, it should be illegal. (;

 

You also have a chance of dying during any surgery or medical procedure, so should all of those be illegal as well?

What's weird is that you two are both against abortion yet you're fighting. :laughingsmiley:

[Lights and Buzz]

While I see where both sides of this argument are going, I ultimately agree with Fuzio for the simple reason that he never said he though abortion should be illegal.

 

I believe abortion is ridiculous, disgusting, and a disgrace to any woman who does it. But I don't think that it's the government's place to step in and say "No", considering that most arguments against abortion are moral and religious. What ever happened to the seperation of church and state?

[Ellie_Penguin]

While I see where both sides of this argument are going, I ultimately agree with Fuzio for the simple reason that he never said he though abortion should be illegal.

 

I believe abortion is ridiculous, disgusting, and a disgrace to any woman who does it. But I don't think that it's the government's place to step in and say "No", considering that most arguments against abortion are moral and religious. What ever happened to the seperation of church and state?

 

Most arguments are moral, religous AND medical. So those who are against are not only because they're religous, but also because of the high risks of getting diseases.

[WEVIL]

No Fuzio is not against abortion because he still believes in pro-choice instead of pro-life. This is obviously seen by the fact that he says government should not regulate abortion so therefore making it legal. He might be against a women havign an abortion but still feels women should be allowed to make the choice while i believe abortion is wrong and that the government should immediatley regulate it by bannnig it in america PERIOD. There is a huge difference between Fuzio's point of view and mine.

[Fuzio]

No Fuzio is not against abortion because he still believes in pro-choice instead of pro-life. This is obviously seen by the fact that he says government should not regulate abortion so therefore making it legal. He might be against a women havign an abortion but still feels women should be allowed to make the choice while i believe abortion is wrong and that the government should immediatley regulate it by bannnig it in america PERIOD. There is a huge difference between Fuzio's point of view and mine.

 

And again, you are wrong.

 

I am against abortion. If I didn't have proof before that you twist what I say, this is it.

 

I also NEVER said government should make abortion legal. By me saying they should not regulate it does not say 'make it legal'.

 

This IS America. I don't support making abortion legal, nor do I support making it illegal. I don't see why the government should have any control over it.

 

THAT is my opinion, NOT what you stated.

 

I'm more of a libertarian. Live and let live. Why should I care what others do with their lives, especially if it doesn't affect me in any manner.

 

I'm leaving this topic for good. I'm quite annoyed with the fact that you continue to state what my beliefs are, and you're wrong, when I've stated them plenty of times already.

[Chipmonker]

I think the reason he dislikes your view so much is because he hates abortion so much. It doesn't matter that you don't like abortion, you have said the government shouldn't control people's lives and that people should choose of what they want. WEVIL can't get over that fact that you believe that.

 

Am I right?

 

 

Edit: I noticed something you typed when I reread your statement

 

Why should I care what others do with their lives, especially if it doesn't affect me in any manner.

 

That is one thing that WEVIL and I disagee about. We care what others do so that they don't ruin their lives and end up killing themselves. (At least that is what I can concur from WEVIL's posts)

[Fuzio]

Well, in my view it seems WEVIL is a rather strict religious person.

 

In my opinion, they (being religious 'fanatics) do more harm than good. It happens to be those religious people who continually talk about saving the institution of 'marriage', protecting families and doing 'moral good' that torment and harass young gay teens and cause them to kill themselves.

 

I have numerous friends, including myself, who have either attempted suicide or completed suicide due to the torment, harassment and bigotry from the religious crowd they faced in their everyday lives simply for who they are. Of course, that is going onto another subject for another thread.

 

My mother has birthed 3 children, mis-carried 2, put 1 up for adoption and had 1 abortion. She feels the adoption is / was far worse than the abortion because she knows where that baby is, in heaven. As for her other son, she has no idea who he is, if he's being beaten, living on the streets or even fed. Probably never will.

 

I respect both of your all's opinions, though I disagree with some of them. I just, personally, don't see why other people's religious beliefs should trump the beliefs of others and dictate how everyone else, in this country, live their lives. Especially those who don't believe what you do.

[Ellie_Penguin]

If you don't care how people live their lives, then you shouldn't care about what they say. Seriously, if you say "religious" people make more bad than good, then in my opinion, I don't think trying to kill yourself is actually showing that non-religious people can do more good than bad. I've actually felt more threatened by non-religious people than religious people, but I just don't listen to them anymore. And even if I wasn't religious, I would still be against it. I'm not against it, not only because of my religious beliefs, but also because abortion is more dangerous than childbirth (according to the medical facts).

[Fuzio]

If you don't care how people live their lives, then you shouldn't care about what they say. Seriously, if you say "religious" people make more bad than good, then in my opinion, I don't think trying to kill yourself is actually showing that non-religious people can do more good than bad. I've actually felt more threatened by non-religious people than religious people, but I just don't listen to them anymore. And even if I wasn't religious, I would still be against it. I'm not against it, not only because of my religious beliefs, but also because abortion is more dangerous than childbirth (according to the medical facts).

 

You're obviously a strongly religious person. So of course you wouldn't feel threatened by others who are on your side of 'thinking'. But believe me, if you had people following you home from school with bats and 2x4's attempting to 'beat the faggot' out of you, or spraying painting your locker with 'die faggot die' or had people threatening you online and via phone to kill you and your family, egging your brand new car causing over $700 in damages, you would feel threatened. All of those people are doing so 'in the name of God' because I'm "a disgustingly immoral person who should burn in hell for my sins and do not belong in any church."

 

I didn't attempt to take my own life to show anyone anything. I attempted it to get away from the utter bullshit and ignorance that come from people who claim to be 'Christians', when in fact no true religious follower would ever utter / think the things they have said or done.

 

Also, so because a procedure is dangerous that means it should be illegal? Just trying to make sure that's what you're saying. So, then by saying that, almost all medical procedures should be illegal, as most have high risks of death, injury, etc. If that's not what you meant, then I guess it needs to be reworded because that's what I got from "but also because abortion is more dangerous than childbirth".

 

Not caring how people live their lives is FAR different than caring about what they say, the actions they partake in and what they try preaching to others in order to indoctrinate them. There is a difference between stating your beliefs and taking it to the extent of hate speech / harassment or physical assault.

 

I don't care that people disagree with anything I believe. Hell, one of my best friends growing up is a hardcore republican and doesn't exactly agree with the 'gay thing', but she is still, to this day, one of my best friends. There's not many people in this world who could say they're good friends with someone who strongly does not support or agree with who they are as a person and not get caught up in it.

 

I had numerous friends before I came out, most of them religious. When I came out, I lost every friend I had and why was that? Simply because I'm gay. If that's not dividing people, I don't know what is. Apparently religious people can only be friends with others who believe what they believe and support what they support. It's no wonder they're such a divided group from the rest of society. Yes, there may be a large number of them but do you ever see them being friends with someone who disagrees with them?

[Empress Keiko]

Let me actually say something in the debate forums. *le gasp!* I think that abortion is Highly fair. I dont know where this religion thing came up, but it makes no sense. Why would you say no to abortion for a religious reson? Sure you're killing a "baby" but that thing isnt alive yet. Let's go to roleplaying....

 

Let's say there is this Pregnant girl at the age of...16. She is going to have a baby. Let's take a trip down both choices...

 

Having the baby: She becomes a wreck. She cant sustain the baby. She cant do school. She cant have fun. Wow, life sucks. "I shouldnt have had the baby. I'm failing school. I'm under loads of pressure, and my parents wont help."

 

Abortion: She get reprimanded by her parents, but at least she doesnt have as many problems. The easier of two lives.

 

Now Ellie, dont hurt me, I wanna be your friend, but lets take your religious thing as an example. There was something in a religion, cant remember, that if you killed a man, you would be closer to God. That doesnt make it the right thing.

 

A human has choices, whether it is being gay or having an abortion, it doent make anything right. There probably isnt a right or wrong thing in many cases. Abortion is good for some, and bad for others. Get over it and stop making huge fights about it. This is why the debate forums are going down.

[Mira]

I totally agree with you, Keiko.

[Empress Keiko]

I totally agree with you, Keiko.

 

woot! I already have a minion!

 

but its all true.

[Mira]

Yeah, not many people are on our side but mostly because almost everyone in this topic is male so it would be way harder for them to understand.

[Ellie_Penguin]

Again, I'm not against abortion because of my religious beliefs only. And yes, you can still finish your career if you have a baby. I know a lot of people who have been able to do so with and without the support of their families (and a lot of them live in South America where, depending where you live, you don't get support from the government). So if THEY can do it, so can the people who live in North America. But yea of course, if no one supports you, it becomes way harder. Anyways, we were actually debating whether or not, abortion is safer than childbirth and that's when the problems started.

 

And about if you kill a man you would be closer to God, I think that's in the Muslim religion, or I might be wrong. I watched the report on "Heaven, where is it, how do we get there" and as far as I can remember, they believe that if you kill for God, you would go to Heaven. But if you kill for revenge and hate, you won't go to Heaven. (sorry if I'm mistaken) So maybe that's what you heard?

[Mira]

Oops. Sorry Penguin. I forgot about you.

[Empress Keiko]

oooo...we were debating if abortion was safer? oo.....um..I have no say in that...well, i can add SOMETHING into that...

 

Pregnancy is THE MOST dangerous point in a womans life. You are giving birth to something giant. An abortion, in my opinion, seems safer than giving birth to a living, 10 pound(or at least close), long thing. That makes a woman vulnerable. An abortion seems safer than that. I dont know any of the facts abot this, but it seems right.

 

Having a baby at 16 stilll is not the way you would want to go, even if you could barely sustain it.

 

And the religion said to kil a specific person. Not a nation of people, but one person.

[Mira]

It's not the most dangerous if they've had a gun held up to teir head.

[Empress Keiko]

How about us saying, normal life. A gun is nut natural, so it doesnt count. gosh, so literal.

[Mira]

I didn't mean it that way I just have a very strange sense of humor.

[Empress Keiko]

I figured that you were just joking lol. But that gun can be very suspicious...*shifty eyes*

[Ellie_Penguin]

ahh tomorrow this whole thing will be deleted.

 

 

Well, before it does I want to say it was nice debating with you guys. I apologize if I caused any misunderstandings. Hopefully this topic will be open privately for us in the future.

[Empress Keiko]

I had a good few days posting on this...I never posted on this area of the forums because I knew fighting happened. It was pretty fun, though.

[Ellie_Penguin]

yea and I hope people didn't take it way too personally. I don't hate anyone for being different. I just have a different point of view.