!!Abortion!! Good or bad?

[Lights and Buzz]

As an adopted child, I feel pretty strongly about this subject. While I don't think that it's really the government's place to say that a mother cannot do something to her own body (for many don't believe that the baby is even a human at the point where abortions usually occur), I would never be able to go through it myself. I could have been an aborted baby, but I was given a chance at life, one that I will always be grateful for.

 

Having an abortion, in my opinion, is like killing someone because they are a nuisance, or in the way of your life. It's an easy way out (and I don't care how "hard" it was for them, they still made the decision because it was the easiest) for peope. As far as rape, I hardly think the child chose to be born from rape, so why should it be punished?

[Ellie_Penguin]

^^ I agree. Abortion is a selfish thing to do. And pregnancy isn't that bad. Sure, you gain some weight, but then everything goes back to normal. My cousin had a baby at a young age and now she's looking great and doing the best she can to raise it, along with the father of the baby. If you really don't want to raise it, put it up for adoption and make sure that your baby finds a good home. There are millions of couples who cannot have kids. Just right now, what if a parent decided to kill his child just because they went broke? Instead of trying to find a solution?

 

Two of my cousins are adopted. The oldest one was abandoned by his mother when he was just a couple of days old. They did everything they could and told my uncle and aunt that he had a small chance of living. Did my uncle and aunt give up? No they didn't. They did EVERYTHING just to save his life and they did! Now he is one of the top students at his university. Imagine what would've happened if they just gave up? The youngest one is still in high school and doing extremely great. Imagine if they all would've said "nah it's going to die anyway. Let's just kill it." Look at all of the things he could've missed.

[eggplantlady]

I don't see why everyone seems to think I'm advocating abortion as the best or first choice. I think everything possible should be done to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and failing everything else one should have the right to look to abortion.

 

But hey, I have the right to be selfish with my own body, and nobody can take that away from me. If that makes me a bad person according to your morals, so be it. According to my beliefs, no fetus that couldn't survive outside the womb is a true human. If it's aborted before it could survive outside the womb, it's no different than getting rid of a rat in your house. *shrug* But I'm not going to protest your right to keep an unexpected/unplanned child for which you might be completely unprepared, however silly I may think that is, and I'm not going to call you names (like "selfish") for your beliefs, and I think that is a courtesy that should be extended in the other direction as well.

 

Pregnancy isn't that bad.

 

Have you ever been pregnant? Because I've always ever heard that it's far less than "not that bad". Try, having to use the bathroom every hour day and night, not being able to get out of your bed or bathtub unassisted, gaining weight and not being able to lose it... the list goes on and on, and that doesn't even get to the part where labor is pretty darn painful. :eh: Or have you ever seen a woman whose husband/mate isn't supportive and doesn't help her take care of the kid(s)? Because that happens much more often than you seem to think.

 

Relationships and families (especially where new children are concerned) are scary things if you look past the sunshine and roses.

[Ellie_Penguin]

I don't see why everyone seems to think I'm advocating abortion as the best or first choice. I think everything possible should be done to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and failing everything else one should have the right to look to abortion.

 

But hey, I have the right to be selfish with my own body, and nobody can take that away from me. If that makes me a bad person according to your morals, so be it. According to my beliefs, no fetus that couldn't survive outside the womb is a true human. If it's aborted before it could survive outside the womb, it's no different than getting rid of a rat in your house. *shrug* But I'm not going to protest your right to keep an unexpected/unplanned child for which you might be completely unprepared, however silly I may think that is, and I'm not going to call you names (like "selfish") for your beliefs, and I think that is a courtesy that should be extended in the other direction as well.

Have you ever been pregnant? Because I've always ever heard that it's far less than "not that bad". Try, having to use the bathroom every hour day and night, not being able to get out of your bed or bathtub unassisted, gaining weight and not being able to lose it... the list goes on and on, and that doesn't even get to the part where labor is pretty darn painful. :eh: Or have you ever seen a woman whose husband/mate isn't supportive and doesn't help her take care of the kid(s)? Because that happens much more often than you seem to think.

 

Relationships and families (especially where new children are concerned) are scary things if you look past the sunshine and roses.

 

My cousin has been pregnant so I know it isn't as bad as they say. Sure, labor is painful, but that's a temporary pain. Sure, some families and partners aren't supportive, but why does an innocent life have to pay for that? "I have no support, I'm gonna kill my child." That doesn't sound pretty, does it? The women who have gotten raped, well I would understand because that's a very shocking thing to go through. But those who did it being aware of the consequenses. Now, there are ways you can lower the risk of getting raped (not saying that those who have gotten raped before, didn't take care of themselves).

[julie_kofoed1980]

omg - can't believe you just wrote that! There's never an excuse for rape - and nobody deserves to be raped!

[amnestia]

I think its a womans choice to do what she wants to her body. Its not up to some person who has his own agenda to tell her her choices arnt worth a crap and restrict her from an abortion. If she feels shes in a situation where it seems like the best option then so be it.

 

My point of view is this and its not intended to be a slap in the face of anyone else, but i've been homeless and alone but thankfully not pregnant but i've seen other people go through this and talked with them.

 

Suppose you get pregnant, you have no job, your parents kick you out and your on the street. You have no way to feed yourself let alone a child and you know winters coming. You find a place to stay at the local over-crowded shelter but they wont have room for you both once you give birth, you have three options: Have the kid and give it up to social services ensuring that once it passes the baby stage most prospective parents wont even glance its way and it grows up alone and bitter. Have the kid and dont give it up and have to find somewhere else maybe on the street or with a pimp and end up in a bad postion while both going hungry if you both dont die from exposure or a disease. Or have an abortion and with a little help you get the rest of your schooling, find a job and the rest would be up to that person to work on.

 

When push comes to shove you dont think of what is murder or not, you think of survival and what is best for you and the child you might bring into this world. If you cant provide for it, find a home for it or if the system is teeming with children who's parents just cant take care of them anymore why foist another child onto the tax payers and volenteers whose resorces go into caring for it?

 

What i belive in isnt based on religious issues or agendas, its based on what would be best off for the mother in the long run.

[Fuzio]

In my opinion, a fetus cannot be classified as a living human if it cannot survive outside of the mother's body.

 

I personally don't think abortion is the best choice but this is America and the government has no right telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

 

My mother has had 2 mis-carriages, 1 abortion and placed 1 child up for adoption. She said the abortion was easier than the adoption. With the abortion you know where your child is (in religious terms), with an adoption; your child could be abused in a foster home, out on the streets or anything else.

 

Personally, I don't see how everyone voicing their opinions on this matter and making the final say tend to be men. Men truly have no say in this, it should be the women.

[Ellie_Penguin]

omg - can't believe you just wrote that! There's never an excuse for rape - and nobody deserves to be raped!

 

I said you can "prevent" it in "a way" (ie. don't go into dark alleys, don't walk alone at night especially after a party, you know stuff that can keep you safe). I never said people deserve to be raped, geez.

[WEVIL]

ok my page long post on abortion magically didn't get posted. :( It was a good post too. Oh well.

 

Now you guys are saying a fetus is not a human being because it cant live outside the mothers body. Well a newborn bay sure cant survive alone after being born. It has to stay in a hospital for weeks then has to be cared for years in order to make sure it doesnt die. Premature babies, considered human beings, but also fetuses that came out of the mother sometimes even a month before its supposed to cannot survive at all outside the mothers body. The premature baby will die in hours if it is left alone to the outside world. So is a premature baby also not a human? I think not! You stab that baby, it is murder and you get jail time, no question about it. So isn't classifying anything that cant live in the outside world by itself not a human being sort of a terrible definition?

 

Personally, I don't see how everyone voicing their opinions on this matter and making the final say tend tobe men. Men truly have no say in this, it should be the women.

 

That personally to me is THE MOST ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Men should not voice their opinion on abortion? So now what you are saying is that this child is not the fathers but only the mothers. The father can have absolutely no say in the matter to decide whether his child should live or die. That's great, and women say men don't have enough rights, look waht youre trying to do to men here. Make them have absolutely no power in determining whether he will have a son to play catch with or a girl to drive to her graduation in the future. Absolutely preposteruous.

 

 

 

Now i'll try to repost my previous disappearing post on abortion. It was a reply to all the discussion about rape and abortion due to it.

 

Rape: A pro-abortionist's ace of spades, his trump card, his ace in the hole. What seems to stop anti-abortionists in their tracks. How can you possibly force a mother to concieve a child that was made by a man she has never seen, interacted with, and for obivous reasons, hates?

 

Most anti-abortionists reply with the "Every baby deserves a life" spheal and although I agree with this point of view, I thought of another reason that a baby due to rape should never be aborted. If a mother wishes to abort this baby, what is her motive? She does not want to conceive a child? Well, women who participate in unsafe sex and get pregnant usually choose to concieve a chidl because she doesn't want to kill it. (Those who do abort their child are cruel and disgusting human beings that use abortion as birth control and is unexcusable, but not the point). So why won't a women who is raped do the same?

 

Your probably screaming at your computer, "BECAUSE SHE WAS FORCED TO HAVE S*X (idk if your aloud to say that in here) WITH A MAN SHE NEVER KNEW!" And that is exactly my point. Stay with me here because it gets confusing. This acknowledges the fact that a woman who is raped aborts a child because of the father she was forced to "do it" with. Do you know what that makes this abortion? A murder of pure revenge. Lets not talk about whether it is considered murder because the chidl is or is not a human being. Lets ignore that for now. What I am saying is that an abortion becomes you killing a potential life out of pure spite for its father. Don't we all cringe when we hear of a mother who kills her children out of spite after her husband marrys another woman because the children remind her so much of their father? (Medea and Jason in Greek mythology, for an example)

 

I know its just a myth but when you read the passage it doesn't make you jump up with joy. So isn't this what a raped mother is doing to her child? Killing it due to her hate toward its father and therefore revenge instead of an act to protect herself. The mother feels no remorse for killing this child and is therefore committing cold murder.

 

Bleq, now that I actaully write this out on paper, the argument is mostly physcological so is therefore a weak argument but I hope it adds a little more variety toward abortion due to rape than the usual answers you recieve.

[julie_kofoed1980]

I said you can "prevent" it in "a way" (ie. don't go into dark alleys, don't walk alone at night especially after a party, you know stuff that can keep you safe). I never said people deserve to be raped, geez.

 

Sorry I got carried away, I thought you meant don't dress slutty etc...

[Fuzio]

ok my page long post on abortion magically didn't get posted. :( It was a good post too. Oh well.

 

Now you guys are saying a fetus is not a human being because it cant live outside the mothers body. Well a newborn bay sure cant survive alone after being born. It has to stay in a hospital for weeks then has to be cared for years in order to make sure it doesnt die. Premature babies, considered human beings, but also fetuses that came out of the mother sometimes even a month before its supposed to cannot survive at all outside the mothers body. The premature baby will die in hours if it is left alone to the outside world. So is a premature baby also not a human? I think not! You stab that baby, it is murder and you get jail time, no question about it. So isn't classifying anything that cant live in the outside world by itself not a human being sort of a terrible definition?

Now i'll try to repost my previous dissapearing post on abortion. It was a reply to all the discussion about rape and abortion due to it.

 

Rape: A pro-abortionist's ace of spades, his trump card, his ace in the hole. What seems to stop anti-abortionists in their tracks. How can you possibly force a mother to concieve a child that was made by a man she has never seen, interacted with, and for obivous reasons, hates?

 

Most anti-abortionists reply with the "Every baby deserves a life" spheal and although I agree with this point of view, I thought of another reason that a baby due to rape should never be aborted. If a mother wishes to abort this baby, what is her motive? She does not want to conceive a child? Well, women who participate in unsafe sex and get pregnant usually choose to concieve a chidl because she doesn't want to kill it. (Those who do abort their child are cruel and disgusting human beings that use abortion as birth control and is unexcusable, but not the point). So why won't a women who is raped do the same?

 

Your probably screaming at your computer, "BECAUSE SHE WAS FORCED TO HAVE S*X (idk if your aloud to say that in here) WITH A MAN SHE NEVER KNEW!" And that is exactly my point. Stay with me here because it gets confusing. This acknowledges the fact that a woman who is raped aborts a child because of the father she was forced to "do it" with. Do you know what that makes this abortion? A murder of pure revenge. Lets not talk about whether it is considered murder because the chidl is or is not a human being. Lets ignore that for now. What I am saying is that an abortion becomes you killing a potential life out of pure spite for its father. Don't we all cringe when we hear of a mother who kills her children out of spite after her husband marrys another woman because the children remind her so much of their father? (Medea and Jason in Greek mythology, for an example)

 

I know its just a myth but when you read the passage it doesn't make you jump up with joy. So isn't this what a raped mother is doing to her child? Killing it due to her hate toward its father and therefore revenge instead of an act to protect herself. The mother feels no remorse for killing this child and is therefore committing cold murder.

 

Bleq, now that I actaully write this out on paper, the argument is mostly physcological so is therefore a weak argument but I hope it adds a little more variety toward abortion due to rape than the usual answers you recieve.

 

I think we more meant the fact that, if you were to take the fetus out of the mothers body; it would immediately die. Instant. Not over time, or after not being fed / taken care of. At least that's what I meant.

 

Also, it's not out of spite for the father that a raped mother would abort the child. It could be a multitude of things. Some people just don't want children, nor want to birth a child. Birth is the closest to death that a woman comes in her lifetime.

 

How anyone can tell a woman you have to have a child you didn't want, nor you did anything to conceive is beyond me.

 

I think it's more of a mind your own business sort of thing. If you don't agree with it, fine (nor do I, to an extent) but it's not the governments place to tell a woman what she can and cannot do. Especially when it's mostly males making the 'decisions'.

[Ellie_Penguin]

Well if, unfortunately, they make abortion officially legal I think the government should create a program so that they give ALL of the options available for the woman, and also a psychological analaysis if the woman was raped. That way the woman can be aware enough of what she is going to do. You know at least give the anti-abortion people some "hope".

[WEVIL]

I think it's more of a mind your own business sort of thing. If you don't agree with it, fine (nor do I, to an extent) but it's not the governments place to tell a woman what she can and cannot do. Especially when it's mostly males making the 'decisions'.

 

Again read my post where I comment on the huge role men should play in deciding an abortion and now you are belittling women by stating that women have no power in government? Women make plenty of choices in the government and if you know the American system of government, no decisions are made by one person or a small group of people but is affected by nearly every person who has a position in government such as Hillary Clinton (HATE HER) and Condi Rice.

 

Also, an aborted baby is killed before it comes out the womb so you can't really say whether a fetus will be able to survive if it somehow comes out of the mother. A fetus is not much different from a very premature baby in its functions. So, I assume that it will be able to surive A VERY SHORT amount of time once outside the mother so once again your definition for a human being becomes erroneous.

 

You said that childbirth is the closest thing to death? Yea, and I'm sure abortion is SOOOO much safer. Some abortion procedures, crush the head of the baby to get it out of the mother's uterus, others inject chemicals into the womb to kill the baby then pry it out, and the MOST COMMON procedure is VACUUMING the fetus out of the womb. Vacumming it out. Now all these abortions have risksdeath being one of them. So i don't know how you can justify that abortion is safer than childbirth when you are vacuuming something from inside of your body to outside your uterus...

[Mira]

Fish are animals. We're talking about HUMANS here.

Um, FYI, humans are actually animals.

[WEVIL]

Um, FYI, humans are actually animals.

 

Um, FYI animals aren't humans.

 

:D

[Ellie_Penguin]

Yes, humans are "animals" scientifically speaking; however, animals such as dogs, cats, wild animals are NOT smarter than us, or are they? If you are in a car accident, your car crashes into a lake and you begin to sink. Your dog is with you and only one of you can be saved. Would you save your dog?

[WEVIL]

Yes, humans are "animals" scientifically speaking; however, animals such as dogs, cats, wild animals are NOT smarter than us, or are they? If you are in a car accident, your car crashes into a lake and you begin to sink. Your dog is with you and only one of you can be saved. Would you save your dog?

 

Lol good scenario. PETA of course in thsi situation would go save the dog claiming that you should be able to fend for yourself more than the dog. Such a bad organization but anyways. Yes animals are not humans and should never be considered equal to humans because in all honesty I really believe that they never will be.

[Mira]

Lol good scenario. PETA of course in thsi situation would go save the dog claiming that you should be able to fend for yourself more than the dog. Such a bad organization but anyways. Yes animals are not humans and should never be considered equal to humans because in all honesty I really believe that they never will be.

You don't know what PETA would and wouldn't do. They aren't a bd organization, trust me, the press makes it seem like they are though.

[Fuzio]

Again read my post where I comment on the huge role men should play in deciding an abortion and now you are belittling women by stating that women have no power in government? Women make plenty of choices in the government and if you know the American system of government, no decisions are made by one person or a small group of people but is affected by nearly every person who has a position in government such as Hillary Clinton (HATE HER) and Condi Rice.

 

Also, an aborted baby is killed before it comes out the womb so you can't really say whether a fetus will be able to survive if it somehow comes out of the mother. A fetus is not much different from a very premature baby in its functions. So, I assume that it will be able to surive A VERY SHORT amount of time once outside the mother so once again your definition for a human being becomes erroneous.

 

You said that childbirth is the closest thing to death? Yea, and I'm sure abortion is SOOOO much safer. Some abortion procedures, crush the head of the baby to get it out of the mother's uterus, others inject chemicals into the womb to kill the baby then pry it out, and the MOST COMMON procedure is VACUUMING the fetus out of the womb. Vacumming it out. Now all these abortions have risksdeath being one of them. So i don't know how you can justify that abortion is safer than childbirth when you are vacuuming something from inside of your body to outside your uterus...

 

 

Honestly, your 'debates' on numerous topics are becoming more apparent that you're acting childish and twisting things people are saying.

 

I never said abortion is safer than having a child. I simply stated a fact, that child birth is the closest to death a woman comes during her life.

 

My 'men' statement was that most people doing the debating on this issue are men. Most of the people who decide on issues like this are men. I never said women have no power in government. Why don't you read what I've typed instead of twisting things. This isn't the first time you've twisted what I've said.

 

Like I've said before, I personally don't agree with having an abortion but the government has no right telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own life and her own decisions.

[WEVIL]

Honestly, your 'debates' on numerous topics are becoming more apparent that you're acting childish and twisting things people are saying.

 

I never said abortion is safer than having a child. I simply stated a fact, that child birth is the closest to death a woman comes during her life.

 

My 'men' statement was that most people doing the debating on this issue are men. Most of the people who decide on issues like this are men. I never said women have no power in government. Why don't you read what I've typed instead of twisting things. This isn't the first time you've twisted what I've said.

 

Like I've said before, I personally don't agree with having an abortion but the government has no right telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own life and her own decisions.

 

Closest- Which means that nothing else is closer to death. The very definition of the -est suffix. That means that nothing else will bring a woman closer to death, which means it is very dangerous, than childbirth. How is that not saying abortion is not the closest thing to death therefore safer than childbirth? Idk unless I've been using my -est suffix the wrong way my whole life.

 

How do you possibly know men are the only people debating on this issue. LIKE I SAID IN THE PREVIOUS POST, people such as Hillary Clinton and Condi Rice voice their opinions and influence the decisons that are made not only on abortion but on nearly every political topic too. How about you read what I type and stop denying what you obviously did type.

 

A woman has no right to tell a child whether it can live or not live so therefore abortion should not be permitted.

 

How about you stop acting so "childish" by trying to deny everything that you posted and stop accusing me of "twisting" your words just because I seem to be able to support my view better than yours...

[Mira]

Honestly, your 'debates' on numerous topics are becoming more apparent that you're acting childish and twisting things people are saying.

 

I never said abortion is safer than having a child. I simply stated a fact, that child birth is the closest to death a woman comes during her life.

 

My 'men' statement was that most people doing the debating on this issue are men. Most of the people who decide on issues like this are men. I never said women have no power in government. Why don't you read what I've typed instead of twisting things. This isn't the first time you've twisted what I've said.

 

Like I've said before, I personally don't agree with having an abortion but the government has no right telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own life and her own decisions.

I agree, WEVIL, read what people posted again before replying to it. And yes, I do think you should act a bit more mature.

 

A woman has no right to tell a child whether it can live or not live so therefore abortion should not be permitted.

Oh, so a man can and a woman can't? I think that's just sexist.

[WEVIL]

Oh, so a man can and a woman can't? I think that's just sexist.

 

I don't even know what to say anymore. I say one thing and you guys somehow pick a random thought out of the air to try to use against me.

 

Did I say a man is allowed to decide for a child to have an abortion? Did I? Please quote me where I said that when I said this WHOLE TIME that abortion should be banned. Are you 5 years old? Please think before you post!

 

I also love how you decide not to comment on the more important part of my post that came before that sentence but whatever.

[Ellie_Penguin]

A woman has no right to tell a child whether it can live or not live so therefore abortion should not be permitted.

 

 

I agree with that quote. I'm saying, if they say that the government cannot make women do what they don't want to do, then wouldn't women who abort be doing the exact same thing? Sure, an unborn baby cannot say "hey, I don't wanna be killed". But you are cutting its future life away. You are stopping its growing cycle. That unborn baby will not be able to experience life, ever. You had or will have a graduation; that baby won't.

[WEVIL]

Finally, a peson who agrees with me within this mess.

 

I <3 Silent_Penguin

[Ellie_Penguin]

I've always being 100% against abortion. Anyways, I want you to take a look at this:

 

http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200611..._20061122.jhtml

 

Also if you have the chance, go and watch that movie! Just imagine for one second, if that man gave up. "I'm now homeless, have barely to eat. I'm going to kill my child because we're just poor and we don't have a chance." Look at what they could've missed. The dad is now a SELF-MADE millionaire and entrepreneur. He didn't give up, he kept going and gave the best he could. Even if he hadn't succeeded, he at least tried. Compare THAT to "I don't wanna have this baby because labor is painful and my body will change." Sure, not everyone will become a millionaire, but why can't you try?