antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 That's the word I was looking for! How do we know if a foetus is intelligent while it's in the womb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 That's the word I was looking for! How do we know if a foetus is intelligent while it's in the womb? The video, fish don't respond to sould... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie_Penguin Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Fish are animals. We're talking about HUMANS here. I posted something interesting on the past board so here it is again: "The dad suffers from asthma, the mom has tuberculosis. They both have four kids. The first one is blind, the second one is deaf, the third one died and the fourth one has tuberculosis. The mother gets pregnant again. Would you recommend her abortion? .....if you answered yes, you would've killed : Beethoven "A white man well forces a black 13-year old girl to you know what (i don't know if we're allowed to use that word here) and the girl gets pregnant. If you were this girl's dad, would you recommend her abortion? If you answered yes, you would've killed....Ethel Walters (one of the most famous black singer) "A woman gets pregnant; she has already enough kids, two of them are already dead, his husband went to war and she only has a few months to live. Would you recommend her abortion? If you answered yes, you would've killed.... John Paul II "A minister and his wife who are going through financial difficulties, already have 14 kids, and they are all very poor. Considering their extreme situation. Would you recommend the wife to abort the 15th child?" If you answered yes, you would've killed... Juan(John) Wesley who was one of the biggest preachers of the last century Now, this doesn't mean every baby will be a Beethoven, but it means that we don't know what they could do for us in the future. Don't you think we should give them a chance to live? For all we know, any of us could've been aborted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I completely agree with you. Everyone should have at least one chance. However, I'm not sure about whether abortion should be considered murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Nice points penguin! EDIT: If everyone deserves 1 chance then how come you are fighting for abortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 See my edit for the above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Lets me ask you this if your heart is beating are you alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 It depends on what kind of heart you're referring to. Anyway, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie_Penguin Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Oh and not only is wrong for the unborn baby, but also for the mother. Since you are aware of what you are doing and let's say you get an abortion, what about the side effects? What if you die? Wouldn't that be a form of suicide? So it's also the mom's life what is at risk. BTW, I got those points from a slideshow I received a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 It depends on what kind of heart you're referring to. Anyway, yes. The heart in a HUMAN BODY they are all the same. Anyway: you agreed that if a heart was beating your alive, so now when you kill you stop a beating heart, meaning you killed a life, and therefore you choose to commit murder. Nice powerpoint then Penguin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 What I am asking is whether or not a foetus is classified as a thinking, intelligent, person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I think that is exactly the point, when you hear something that you normally don't hear you turn and look at it, or try and see here it's comming from. When your in class, and someone makes a loud noice or doesn't something funny, and everyone laughs, but you didn't see it, don't you turn around and look to see what it was or ask what happended, and then laugh? ^^ referring to the baby video...doesn't that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Instinct, however, is different from actual thinking. A fish will also respond to unusual stimuli, and it doesn't really think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The dictionary definition of instinct is an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species. [/] Its just something that everybody, and everything does by habbit, they are born with instinct to do certain things, now if that isn't intelligent design what it? Think of graffs (sp?) when the "come out" they start to walk (hobble) right away, how do they know to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 So if the foetus was responding to unusual sounds, how can we definitely say that it was not acting on instinct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 ok, sorry I started going the wrong way, what I was trying to get at is instinct isn't acting they are different things, and intelligent things don't really have instinct, except for the hot cold stuff, but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie_kofoed1980 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 oh man an uproar :P I agree with antiaircraft, but I maybe think that I feel differently on this issue since I'm from a different cultural background (we've had legal abortion since 1973). I will however stress that I could never do it myself! I do believe however that there are times when it is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 See, now I'm not sure on wether or not its ok SOMETIMES or not, i don't think it is, but sometimes there is that one thing, but i'll stick with no for now unless someone can convince me otherwise good luck with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I say that abortion is not a good decision to make, and it's better to let the person have a chance, but I disagree on whether abortion can be considered murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfly Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I guess as long as you think its bad, that is good enough for tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie_Penguin Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Well it can't be right AND wrong...it just doesn't make sense. If it was the right thing to do, there wouldn't be so much controversy and people would talk about it as if it was the best thing ever. I haven't heard of someone who got an abortion who now feels completely free with a clean conscience. Take for example cigarettes, it is a fact that they're bad for you, yet some people really cannot quit or just don't care. But, there really isn't a time when it is "okay" to smoke. No, I'm not trying to change your point of view. Just trying to back up my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 What really convinces me to go against abortion is the "nature's way" thing. In nature, it doesn't matter how the foetus was conceived, or what condition it's in, it gets a chance anyway. Edit: I was saying that abortion is wrong, but not for the reason that it is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strategos Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I find abortion, well, I'll make it long for writing's sake. :P OK, to tackle one major point here, I do believe that abortion is Murder. It is first-degree murder, since you are willingly and have planned [deceased's] death. However, you combat this with the typical fish example. I agree. Killing fish is murder. So everybody should be in jail for cooking fish??? No, and I'm leading up to a point which you have already led up to. Is [deceased] or was [deceased] before her death a living and consious human being, who could have decided against his/her death? No, because I can't remember anything from that long ago, and I think I'm one of the youngest people here. However I find this a question for science to answer. In conclusion, I believe abortion is as unexpected, incorrect, as many of you have argued, and I agree. There is still the matter that a human is stressed to undergo pain to cause another person death. (and pain.) Think, is it really necesarry to hurt 2 people? NO. I told you it would be long. EDIT:Wow, I did such a long essay in Fastreply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggplantlady Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Is it right to kill an innocent person? No. Is it allowable to kill animals that are "inferior" to humans, or otherwise not self-aware? Yes. (Let someone that's never, ever, ever even squashed a bug or eaten a piece of meat tell me otherwise.) Does a five-week-old fetus have sentience and awareness, like a person? Nobody can yet prove yes or no. Should a woman be forced to keep something unwanted within her body for nine months? Absolutely not - if she does not want it, it should not be there. There are physical risks one takes when getting an abortion, but there are also many physical risks one takes when one becomes pregnant. But what it boils down to for me, as a woman, is that, were something unforeseeable to happen to me where I should end up pregnant, I would not want anyone, anyone else that is not me to tell me that I have no right to my own body. My body is mine before anyone else's, even if that "anyone else" is an "innocent" human fetus. And because my body is mine, I expect to have more right to it than anyone else, and for my rights to take precedence over theirs. I will take every precaution that I can in order not to become pregnant, but should it happen, especially against my will, I would consider abortion before carrying a child to term. I'd rather risk a surgery a few weeks in than spend the rest of my life hating myself for destroying my life with a child (and no, adoption doesn't magically "fix" that). And besides, at least with abortion being legal, it's being done in a (presumably safe/sterile) doctor's office instead of at home with a coat hanger. If a woman wants an abortion, she's going to have one, one way or another, whether it's legal or not. Those that want to argue "nature's way" can stop using contraceptives and family planning, because you don't see "lesser" animals using those either. :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie_kofoed1980 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Aw man, you sum up everything I wanted to say - now I don't feel so alone on this board anymore :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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