The Text Message Attack

[CAV of Gang Green]

A few days ago, a 15 year old guy was texting a 13 year old girl (I don't have any names, sorry). The guy was trying to reach his friend through the girl, because his friend didn't have a cell phone. The girl dissaproved of the relationship, and after texting back and forth between the two, she made a rude remark of the guy's brother who killed himself last year due to mental problems. In result, he came to the school, and beat her and stomped on her head multiple times with steel toed boots. She's now in a coma, and he's charged for attempted murder, with the girl who helped him find her charged as an accomplice. What are your thoughts of this?

 

My choice was other, because while the brother shouldn't have beat her near to death, she shouldn't have said anything about the relationship that had nothing to do with her and then making a rude joke about his brother who commited suiside. So for the most part, I'm siding with the boy, but they each had problems.

[karmacow]

I read about this in the paper. I can totally understand why this would set the boy off. The girl stuck her nose where it didn't belong AND made an even more uncalled for remark about the boy's brother. She had *something* coming, but not what she actually got.

I don't think it is appropriate to try the boy as an adult, which I believe I read that they will. There should be some repercussions of course but he is after all still a child. And they should also take into account what exactly set him off. To be honest I think they should make him go into therapy as opposed to juvenile detention. I don't think it will solve anything to place him with other young (hardened) criminals.

I suppose I side the most with the boy even if I don't agree with what he did.

[Secre]

Yes, the girl was magnificently out of line. But the male was far further out of line. Two wrongs don't make a right and there was no excuse for that kind of gratuitous violence. The fact that he had to track her down to do it shows that it was a calculated revenge attack rather than in the heat of the moment. So she she may have been spiteful or disrespectful but there is absolutely no excuse to perpetrate violence on that level to anyone. What was he trying to prove? How does it resolve his problem in the slightest?

 

In addition to this the fact that the girl was only 13 makes him far more in the wrong. At that age you don't necessarily think about the consequences of your actions, and even if she had I very much doubt that she could ever have imagined this sort of over the top response. Even though he is only 2 years older, those 2 years can make one heck of a difference and he should have known far better. Would you want to be scarred for life for something you did at 13?

[FutureTXTurkey]

I absolutely agree with the girl. She made a rude remark and she almost died because of it? If that is a fair retaliation I would have spent a lot of high school in a coma and I'm sure all of you would too. I'm not excusing what she said, it was out line, but caddy remarks and bad behavior are part of being a teenager. We all did/do it. I'm sure he said some pretty awful stuff to her too. That doesn't mean we all get to go around half killing people. There is no excuse on gods green earth for a man (or boy) to ever physically abuse a woman (or girl) like that. It's just unacceptable. I don't care what the circumstances are, short of self defense, physical violence is never acceptable.

 

She's in a coma...and he beat her into it. I can't really see what else needs to be said about it. I would actually be more sympathetic if he shot her, or something quick that could happen in the heat of the moment, but the kind of premeditated and zealous anger it takes to beat a younger girl into a comma...that's a truly disturbed individual.

 

As for them trying him as an adult, if that's true, then that isn't really right. I mean a 15 year old is certainly old enough to know better, and it was OBVIOUSLY premeditated, but to spend your whole life paying for something you did at 15? That's not right. Then again depending on how beat up this girl is, she might spend her whole life paying for those comments she made, and he should certainly have to make amends for that.

 

No one is mentioning the other girl getting tried though...I would really like a link to the article you guys are talking about. Did she help him attack this girl in anyway? Or is there reason to think she knew he was going to beat her up that much? I don't understand why that girl is being charged and I find it a pretty horrifying side effect of this whole messed up situation.

 

I'm so shocked by the concept that anyone could find that boy's story at all sympathetic...he could just as easily have killed that girl. One kick to the wrong place, or if she had hit her head on the ground in the wrong way...BOOM she'd be dead, and would we be having this conversation at all? No, it would just be "15 year old boy beats 13 year old girl to death," and everyone would be horrified.

[karmacow]

I haven't seen any articles about this in English, perhaps CAV2 can link the one he read.

 

I apologize if it seems like I have no sympathy for the girl. She didn't deserve to get beaten up or hurt. I chose to focus on why I understand the boy because quite frankly I can't quite follow the girl's reasoning. Even if she's only 13 she should have realized how out of line it would be to throw the boy's brother's suicide in his face. That's not to say that she should have anticipated the assault, just that she had to have had some awareness of how deeply such a comment would have wounded him. I suppose she just didn't care and just wanted to hurt him.

It was of course a horribly, horribly bad move on his part to get violent and I really do hope that the girl will pull through. I'm not quite sure what kind of damage he inflicted but he did not put her in a coma directly, it was induced by the doctors to keep her in a stable state.

[hrtbrk]

"Who do you side with?" What kind of question is that? A snobby comment or beating someone within an inch of their life.

They don't even come close in comparison.

 

Anyway,

 

They're both 15. The girl who is the accomplice is 13 (who told him their location so he could beat her up).

 

I'm not quite sure what kind of damage he inflicted but he did not put her in a coma directly, it was induced by the doctors to keep her in a stable state.

He damaged her brain just enough so a part of her skull had to be removed due brain swelling. She had no choice but to be put in a coma because of him. :worried:

 

Found an article: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/19/1538499/3-young-lives-cross-path-of-tragedy.html

 

This boy had a rough life. His father has been in and out of jail almost 50 times, his brother committed suicide because of the economic downfall (per the article anyway) but that doesn't mean he gets to be excused or "give the benefit of the situation" because of a snooty text message. He planned and went to kill someone (and he would have - and still might have if she doesn't survive). The only reason he stopped was because a teacher interfered.

 

That's serious enough that he gets put in juvie and I hope he does get tried as an adult. He knew his plan, he knew his intentions and he knew what he was doing - as did the 13 year old. If he was three years older, people would be calling for a life sentence.

[CAV of Gang Green]

"Who do you side with?" What kind of question is that? A snobby comment or beating someone within an inch of their life.

They don't even come close in comparison.

 

Is it me, or do you hate me?? Cause you always disagree with me. While I don't agree with beating someone half to death, I would've done something if someone who I DON'T EVEN KNOW made a remark about my metal brother. And if what you say about his life is true, then I would've done something to deal with my anger too. Just not to nearly kill someone, but I'd do something. And by the people above you having different opinions of yours shows that this isn't a stupid question. He also shouldn't be tried as an adult, when he's just 15.

 

I lost my mother and godfather, and there are so many things going on in my life that I can't explain because it's too personal, that I can relate with this kid. I'm in therepy, maybe that's what has stopped me from going into total rage (cause I have a REALLY bad temper), but if I didn't I would've done something like this. I have a saying for times like this guy and the girl's rude remark, and it goes like so:

 

DON'T GET MAD UNLESS YOU'RE GETTING EVEN

[hrtbrk]

Just because we don't agree doesn't mean that I hate you lol :laughingsmiley:

 

There are millions of people going through something similar (loss of a family member, loss of job, have had something rude said to them, divorce, betrayal - there are endless situations) but most deal with their anger without plotting to kill someone. It wasn't a spur of the moment rage, it was planned. There is a huge difference.

 

As you know based on your own experience, there are many different ways to channel your anger - such as talking to someone (a friend, family member, therapist) about the situation. Some people do art, some people listen to music, some people go out for a run or head to the gym but planning to kill someone probably isn't the first thought - but it was for him.

 

There are forever and always going to be rude and ignorant people. You cannot go around killing every person who says something mean or hateful.

 

When you say "who's side are you on" it just sounds ridiculous as if his actions can be justified by her rude comment. The more violent of the crime, the higher of a chance that he can be tried as an adult. It doesn't have much to do with his age IMO. Kicking someone to death is pretty violent - especially for a 15 year old.

[Awesome_Paul]

Could you please post the article, where it does say his brother was mental. All the articles I have read (2-3) has never mentioned that. They said he was depressed about his job and divorce. Being depressed doesn't mean you're mental. If you do think tehy're the same, think again.

 

The difference here, is that he wore steel toe boots. Like hrtbrk said, he meant to kill. Its very unlikely you would put on steel toe boots to talk and settle it out.

 

Anyway just because he's 15 means he should get tried as a kid, get 1 year in therapy. At 15 you easily know the differnce between right and wrong, and its easy to know the line between the two. In my opinion, this is far worse than some of the adult killings cases I have seen, and should be tried as one of them.

 

By the way, Im now posting on the poll because the answers could be made a tiny bit better. (plus, I hate the whole public votes)

[Macabre]

Okay, the girl was being insufferable. The boy has had an absolutely miserable life. So? This is going to sound very harsh but life is a b**ch and there are people who are full of crap and you have to learn to deal with them in a positive way.

He's got no excuse to take out his rage like that on another person. He beat a thirteen year old girl to the point of death. How are his actions justifiable in any way? Maybe if she had said it to his face and if he had acted in the spur of the moment there may have been something more to this. As it is he planned to murder her over a text message. Someone who has that much trouble coping with a snide comment from a schoolgirl needs a lot of help. I hope he can find it.

[CAV of Gang Green]

Just not to nearly kill someone, but I'd do something.

 

Either people don't see those words that I said, or they are ignoring them, so I put them in bold. I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS OK WHAT HE DID. He did go way out of line. But I understand why he would've done something.

[nelle]

Is it me, or do you hate me?? Cause you always disagree with me. While I don't agree with beating someone half to death, I would've done something if someone who I DON'T EVEN KNOW made a remark about my metal brother. And if what you say about his life is true, then I would've done something to deal with my anger too. Just not to nearly kill someone, but I'd do something. And by the people above you having different opinions of yours shows that this isn't a stupid question. He also shouldn't be tried as an adult, when he's just 15.

 

I lost my mother and godfather, and there are so many things going on in my life that I can't explain because it's too personal, that I can relate with this kid. I'm in therepy, maybe that's what has stopped me from going into total rage (cause I have a REALLY bad temper), but if I didn't I would've done something like this. I have a saying for times like this guy and the girl's rude remark, and it goes like so:

 

DON'T GET MAD UNLESS YOU'RE GETTING EVEN

 

 

er,.. how about this saying: Don't get mad.

It could go a long way in life.

[Unstream]

Ooh, something interesting :P

 

Well, I think the way they do it is hold the person in juvie until they could be tried as an adult?

I've definitely heard it done before. But they normally get a reduced sentence.

 

Oh, and just some clarification, the boy was texting a 15-year-old girl, who occasionally lent her cell phone to a 13-year-old girl. The 13-year-old-girl was the boy's ex. I think there was some confusion earlier?

 

Personally, I'm siding with the girl. In my opinion, what she could have said should have in no way provoked that boy to attack her. Sure, it may have been offensive, but far worse has been said to tons of people in this world, and what she said can't justify an action like that. Simply compare the consequences of their actions. The boy got his feelings hurt. The girl is going to have future medical complications, assuming she has one.

 

I'm kinda more concerned about the girl who's getting tried as an accomplice. More like an innocent bystander in my opinion. Sounds like she was a friend of the victim, and didn't expect her ex-boyfriend to attack her.

 

Quite frankly, rude words should never be a justification for retaliation, unless it's in defense.

 

Either people don't see those words that I said, or they are ignoring them, so I put them in bold. I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS OK WHAT HE DID. He did go way out of line. But I understand why he would've done something.

Not all posts are directed towards you. We're arguing against the point that anyone could say something like that was okay. Calm down.

[hrtbrk]

I'm kinda more concerned about the girl who's getting tried as an accomplice. More like an innocent bystander in my opinion. Sounds like she was a friend of the victim, and didn't expect her ex-boyfriend to attack her.

That's where it gets wonky. She told him the 15 year olds location, knowing what he was going to do, and pointed to her in the crowd :sad01_anim::S

 

Maybe not an accomplice but not innocent either haha Well, legally an accomplice since she didn't try to stop him haha

[karmacow]

 

He damaged her brain just enough so a part of her skull had to be removed due brain swelling. She had no choice but to be put in a coma because of him. :worried:

 

That's pretty much what I said. Indirectly meaning that that the doctors put her in a coma because of the damage he inflicted. Please don't read something into what I write that isn't there. I was merely adding more information.

[Awesome_Paul]

Everyone seems to say he should be at least trialled as a child. Thinking today, this sorta reminds me of another murder, but this was from 1993 (So I doubt many of you have heard about this). This was the murder of James Bulger.

 

I will say, this is ALOT worse, so if you don't want to read, you should skip it.

 

CCTV evidence from the New Strand Shopping Centre in Bootle taken on 12 February 1993 showed Thompson and Venables casually observing children, apparently selecting a target. The boys were playing truant from school, which they did regularly. Throughout the day, Thompson and Venables were seen stealing various items including sweets, a troll doll, some batteries and a can of blue paint, some of which were found at the murder scene. It was later revealed by one of the boys that they were planning to find a child to abduct, lead it to the busy road alongside the mall, and push it into car traffic.

James Bulger being kidnapped by Thompson (above Bulger), and Venables (holding Bulger's hand), in an image recorded on shopping centre CCTV.

 

That same afternoon, James Bulger (often called "Jamie" by the press, although never by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to the New Strand Shopping Centre. While inside a butcher's shop at around 3:40pm, Denise realised that her son had disappeared. He had been left at the door of the shop while she placed an order, and was spotted by Thompson and Venables. They approached him and spoke to him, before taking him by the hand and leading him out of the precinct. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera recording timestamped at 15:42.

 

The boys took Bulger on a 2.5-mile (4.0 km) walk across Liverpool, leading him to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal where he was dropped on his head and suffered injuries to his face. The boys joked about pushing Bulger into the canal. During the walk across Liverpool, the boys were seen by 38 people. Bulger had a bump on his forehead and was crying, but most bystanders did nothing to intervene, assuming that he was a younger brother. Two people challenged the older boys, but they claimed that Bulger was a younger brother or that he was lost and they were taking him to the local police station. At one point, the boys took Bulger into a pet shop, from which they were ejected. Eventually the boys led Bulger to a railway line near the disused Walton & Anfield railway station, close to Walton Lane police station and Anfield Cemetery, where they attacked him.

 

At the trial it was established that at this location, one of the boys threw blue Humbrol modelling paint into Bulger's left eye. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22-pound (10.0 kg) iron bar, described in court as a railway fishplate. They placed batteries in his mouth. Bulger suffered ten skull fractures as a result of the iron bar striking his head. Alan Williams, the case's pathologist, speculated that Bulger suffered so many injuries that none could be isolated as the fatal blow. Police suspected that there was a sexual element to the crime, since Bulger's shoes, stockings, trousers and underpants had been removed. The pathologist's report read out in court stated that Bulger's foreskin had been manipulated. When questioned about this aspect of the attack by detectives and the child psychiatrist Eileen Vizard, Thompson and Venables were reluctant to give details.

 

Before they left him, the boys laid Bulger across the railway tracks and weighted his head down with rubble, in the hope that a train would hit him and make his death appear to be an accident. After Bulger's killers left the scene, his body was cut in half by a train. Bulger's severed body was discovered two days later, on 14 February. A forensic pathologist testified that he had died before he was struck by the train.

Taken from the wikipedia page

 

Another piece of case to look at is Mary Bell

 

I understand this is alot worse, but fact is these cases the murderers got trialled like adults. Age shouldn't matter whether or not you are being trialled like a adult or a child. It should matter on the crime. Like these, he went there to kill.

[Secre]

The Bulger case was a horrific one which is still brought up alot, particularly recently with the release of the then 18 year old murderers and the re-imprisonment of one of them much more recently. But in their case I would have to argue against an adult trial (although I know one was done) because they were only ten which is (I believe) the minimum age for criminal responsibility in the UK. But there are major differences and age is the main one as there is a massive difference between the understanding of a ten year old and the understanding of a fifteen year old.

[karmacow]

As horrific as the story posted by ├→→→┼←←←┤ is I still think that age should make a difference. There is no question that crimes of such a violent and cruel nature should be punished but when it is such a young person committing the crime it should be possible to put them on the right track somehow instead of straight up imprisonment. Then if they are evaluated and deemed to be untreatable, of lack of a better word, to be a danger to other people's (or other living beings') safety then yeah, they should be locked up. The fact that they are able to do such unspeakable things suggest psychiatric issues and it gives me a bad taste in my mouth to treat them as if they did what they did with complete clarity. Because I don't think that's ever the case.

[Unstream]

That's where it gets wonky. She told him the 15 year olds location, knowing what he was going to do, and pointed to her in the crowd :sad01_anim::S

 

Maybe not an accomplice but not innocent either haha Well, legally an accomplice since she didn't try to stop him haha

Well that's the thing, it doesn't say anywhere in the article that she knew what the boy was going to do.

 

As horrific as the story posted by ├→→→┼←←←┤ is I still think that age should make a difference. There is no question that crimes of such a violent and cruel nature should be punished but when it is such a young person committing the crime it should be possible to put them on the right track somehow instead of straight up imprisonment. Then if they are evaluated and deemed to be untreatable, of lack of a better word, to be a danger to other people's (or other living beings') safety then yeah, they should be locked up. The fact that they are able to do such unspeakable things suggest psychiatric issues and it gives me a bad taste in my mouth to treat them as if they did what they did with complete clarity. Because I don't think that's ever the case.

But at the same time, I'm sure if I had a kid and he or she was killed by another kid, I'd want more than just for the kid to go through therapy. I don't really feel like that'd be a fair trade-off.

[CAV of Gang Green]

er,.. how about this saying: Don't get mad.

It could go a long way in life.

 

But I'm the kinda guy who's born with the unbelievably short temper, so of corse I would have a saying such as that.

[Spritzie]

Regardless of remarks she made, she in no way deserved what happened.

 

As for being tried as an adult at 15... I understand. I worked at the District Attorney's Office here for a year, in the Juvenile Prosecution Division. Things are considered on a case-by-case basis usually. And I agree with their decision. 15... at that age... they know better. From what I'm reading, it was purposeful, which makes a HUGE difference.

[Swim freak]

i chose other because neither the boy or the girl were in the right. The girl had made rude comments about the boy's relationships and family, and the boy simply reacted. Does he need therapy? absolutely. Should he get tried as an adult, not really. He is only 15 and if you get him therapy he may be able to realize that he was wrong and change into a good person. if you just throw him in jail he's going to hate everyone and nothing will be accomplished. If you get him therapy and five years later he puts another girl into a coma, ya he had a second chance and he blew it.

[Tyler.]

no offence Swim Freak, but that would be under reacting. He didn't just bruise her or anything. he killed her I think he should be tried as an adult, because this was purposeful. and brutal

[nelle]

But I'm the kinda guy who's born with the unbelievably short temper, so of course I would have a saying such as that.

 

 

sucky. I feel for you. I once had a temper, but then I realized the only person it was hurting was me.. What a waste of energy and life - being mad all the time...

 

and... :( now this 1 boy's temper is wasting his life, the life of the girl, and possibly the life of the 'accomplice', not to mention all the friends and family who will be effected...

[CAV of Gang Green]

no offence Swim Freak, but that would be under reacting. He didn't just bruise her or anything. he killed her I think he should be tried as an adult, because this was purposeful. and brutal

 

I didn't hear anything about her being killed, just a coma. And what Swim Freak said is acually the exact thing I would've done, so I'm siding with her. Put the kid in therapy, kinda like the one I'm in now, and then we see where it goes. If he still blows it, then try him as an adult.