Has Neo gone downhill?

[idriya]

JN had a topic like this awhile ago, and I'm curious as to what TDN thinks about the issue. Plus, I love debating this topic. :P

 

My opinion: In some ways, yes, the site has gone downhill, but overall, I still think it's just as fun as it was in the "Golden Age" (the 2004-2006 area seems to be the general consensus). I quote "Golden Age", because honestly, I don't think that time period was as great as everyone remembers it to be, and I'm sick of this "Hyperion to a satyr" type of comparison that people make between "Old Neo" and "New Neo". Seriously, some people act as if Neo went from being amazing to one of the worst sites on the Internet.

 

Let's face it: today's plots aren't nearly as cool as the TCG plots (my name for BfM, HatIC, CoM, LDP, ToW, and RoS), the staff isn't as supportive as they could be, NC is slowly taking over, and the Battledome seems like a forgotten and anachronistic feature. However, I notice that when people complain, they ONLY complain about those things. FYI: plots and battling are not the entire heart and soul of the site (part of it, I will admit). There's WAY more to the site than just those two features! New games are added regularly, and I have enjoyed most of them (Legends of Pinball and Extreme Faerie Cloud Racers are the exceptions). There's so much you can collect: avatars, stamps, cards, books, Gourmet foods, or, heck, start a gallery! Customization is an interesting feature, and, contrary to popular belief, you don't need NC to make your pet look nice (it helps, though). There are many, many contests to enter, depending on what kind of talent you have (NT, Caption Contest, Beauty Contest, etc.)! If you have a good computer, give restocking or kadding a try! On top of all that, there's always something going on, like the Altador Cup. I don't know about anyone else here, but that sounds pretty good to me. Yet people act as if plots and battling are the only things that actually matter. :(

 

Now, for the bad. Plots have gone downhill for two reasons. The first is that, if we assume NC has to be incorporated in everything nowadays, I would think it's pretty hard to incorporate NC in a plot without making it too much like AotA (a complete failure of a plot, in the eyes of the community). The only thing I can think of that might work is if they release Limited Edition items in the NC Mall during the duration of the plot. I mean stuff like clothes the characters wear, backgrounds of places they visit, etc. I'm sure plenty of people would buy that, and no one would be complaining (would anyone here have complained if they did that with AotA instead of the NC Challenge? :P). The second, more obvious reason is lack of time. Just look at the schedule. We've got the Daily Dare in March, the Altador Cup in June/July, Games Master Challenge in November, Advent Calendar in December, possibly the Style Showdown in August, and it looks like the Neopies will be a new annual event in January. With all that going on, there's just no time to make a good quality plot. The obvious solution would be to remove at least one of those events. Preferably either the Daily Dare or Games Master Challenge (and don't do the Style Showdown again, because it was extremely unpopular), because the Advent Calendar is tradition, the Altador Cup is TOO popular to get rid of, and the Neopies seem like a good way for the community to let TNT know what it really wants. However, we've already got the New Game Challenge. That, plus ONE of the AAA events is plenty. With one of them gone, that frees up plenty of time for the big, three-month plots we all miss. :P

 

The staff, I can't really talk about, because I've personally never had a bad experience with them. I've never been warned or sussed on this account. This account has been frozen, but I know exactly what happened, and it was entirely my fault. I argued my case well, pointed them to the site I got CG'ed at, and I had my account back in two days. So basically, it's all water under the bridge. However, I have heard horror stories about how TNT treats their members as nothing more than statistics, so yeah. . .

 

The community is the thing that's gone farthest downhill, but that is 99% beyond TNT's control, because let's face it: the Internet in general has gone downhill. Seriously, why should TNT bother making the site fun if all people do is whine about everything they do and berate them? It's very rare that you come across someone that is truly disappointed and raises good points, but for the most part, it's just whining. Complainers ruin the site for me more than anything. Furthermore, there are just way more elitists and rude people than back in the "Golden Age". You're judged on your account, and you get laughed at for asking a question you're "expected" to know. I've got an example. Back in the "good 'ol days", you could walk into a "RS and Chat" board and have a decent conversation with people you never met before while RS'ing. Now, in boards like those, unless you're a regular or famous, you get ignored. Yeah, some help you are. <_<

 

I would bring up NC, but this post is already long enough, so I'll end there. xD

[imxsorryxixam]

I think NC should not be included in any major part of the site. It should be used to buy clothes and what ever. and thats it.

 

Plots-terrible. If TNT is going to do something, they should do it right. Id rather have no plot than a terrible one again

 

GMC/DD- I say get rid of one, keep the other. They are pretty similar. Both Include games.

 

Warnings- Ive gotten so many suspensions for nothing. TNT definitely went thought a phase where they just froze/ suspended so many people. I am glad to see they have slowed that down.

[Tyler.]

Yes, slightly, but I haven't given up. There are things that I love now that used to not exist.

Reasons I like it now

avvies with great artwork

graphics that are 356767328963863408640598850 times better

the AC is awesome :D

Viacom had a bad start, but it's getting better. One day, Viacom might make a neo that's even better than the "Golden Years" Neo isn't worse because of NC and customization. Most of all, we have to realize nothing will ever stay the same, and if you hate the new neo, quit neo altogether, it's not like they're making you play

and yes, get rid of DD, keep GMC, it's more fun

and GIVE US A FRIGGEN LDP-LIKE PLOT ALREADY. Sorry, I just had to get that out.

Bottom Line is

I still think neopets is great at what it is

it's not like TNT will remove everything we've loved on the site

[idriya]

I think NC should not be included in any major part of the site. It should be used to buy clothes and what ever. and thats it.

I don't mind it in the NGC/DD/GMC, as long as they don't make Lulu's stuff amazing and AAA's stuff hideous (which they're getting better at).

 

Hm. I guess I can give my opinion on NC. They DO need to cut back on it. It should be like you said. Only use it to sell stuff and keep it to the NGC/DD/GMC. Stocking Stufftacular was pointless (not TOO bad, though, since the regular Advent Calendar had some nice stuff), as was the AC NC Challenge (pay ALL that money just to play Shootout Showdown five times a day? Yeah. . . no). Plots and NC, however, are like oil and water. They should NEVER mix.

 

I do think people are a little defensive when it comes to NC, however. They act as if it constantly gives paying users an unfair advantage on the site, when in reality, the ONLY time that happened was DD '09. Even then, their intention was probably just to give non-paying users access to NC stuff. Good intention, wrong way to handle it. But back to the topic at hand, I agree 100% with something Dave told. The idea of using real money to buy virtual credits in general is still a fairly new one and something people just aren't used to yet, especially when we all remember a time when all sites like Neo were either 100% free or pay-to-play. I personally think people are think those two ways are the ONLY ways to go.

 

Do they need NC? I don't know, and unless you work for TNT, I don't think there is a way of knowing. I've heard both sides of the argument. Some say it's necessary to keep the site from going pay-to-play (judging by how many people throw Hissi fits over NC, I think it's safe to assume pay-to-play would completely fail on Neo), while others say they could get along just fine on ads, Premium, and merchandise alone and claim that NC is nothing more than profit for Viacom. Even if the latter is true, so what? Pretty much all sites like Neo have some sort of paying feature nowadays, and if they don't, there's either not much to them or they're new. Honestly, as long as it isn't giving paying users an unfair advantage, keep NC out of of the all site events and plots barring GMC/DD/NGC, or make the NP stuff crappy in comparison to NC stuff (they've been doing a better job of not doing this imho), then everything's fine with me.

[imxsorryxixam]

while others say they could get along just fine on ads, Premium, and merchandise alone and claim that NC is nothing more than profit for Viacom.

 

But thats just the thing, for years they got by just fine on those things, so why cant they still?

[idriya]

But thats just the thing, for years they got by just fine on those things, so why cant they still?

Because the economy wasn't failing back then, for starters. o.O

[Secre]

I've been on neopets for a fair while now, and I'd probably agree with the majority/ I won't complain that neopets has gone massively downhill because it hasn't - it's still a fun and interesting game site. I enjoy the new plushies, books and stamps that they come out with as well as the games. I do my best at collecting said items above! I enjoy looking at the clothing but I have not really got into the customization side of neopets.

 

Daily Dare and GMC - I've thoroughly enjoyed both of these contests, although the GMC was more appealing because you could win more than one prize and really had to work for some of those scores! Daily Dare I enjoy, but nowhere near the same extent.

 

NC - I can see why they have to have it, it is an extra profit boost in a declining economy. However, I believe they are pushing it too far and it often feels to those of us who will not spend our hard earned cash on pixels that we are being left out of much of the site. What with it's incorporation into GMC, DD and the most recent plot as well as other minor niggles, it does seem a bit unfair. Although, again I guess we can't really start to complain unless they include Faerie quests where you have to get NC items - now that would really hack me off.

 

Plots - The last plot was the first one I had ever played so I can't really comment on declining plots, although I've heard alot of people do so.

 

Battledome - Really unless they release a war plot their isn't much point in it. Defenders of neopia and a couple of avatars are the only point for the battledome atm. And just for that it is ridiculously expensive to train your pets to any decent level and with high defence and everything else.

 

There are pluses and minuses, but there always will be in such a large site. The only way to deal with it is to find the areas you enjoy and use them whilst avoiding those that annoy you!

[arielo_o]

Seriously I think they just really need to do something about inflation, because over 10millions for a krawk potion is way too much

I paid mine 2.5 millions in 2005, now that my account got stolen (lucky me, I got it back at least) But no more krawk... like not ever, Only people who spend outrageous ammounts of time on the website will be able to buy those really cool thing (krawk, draik, expensive avatar items)

 

But for the rest, I think most people just do not like change, period. I understand because I'm like that too I like things to stay the same. However they just don't. Some changes are for the better and other for the worst.

 

But I do miss plots like LDP and ToW. I can't believe it is going to be the 5th altador cup, seriously they started this at the last FIFA world cup, and now it's back this summer, it just seems so far away o_O

 

And I do hate the NC mall and the customization, makes neopets look silly. That's why I quit neo for almost 4 years, yet I came back for the hell of it.

 

And also mainly because it's just pixels.

[tempdisplay]

I'll have to say yes because of what they're currently doing to me (account Frozen) but if I wasn't in this situation I'll have to say, yes Plots are now rubbish, yes they're shoving ADs and the NC Mall down our throats but no it's not really going downhill is it. It's becoming more advanced and I'm liking it :yes:

[Vixensykerd]

I think maybe another reason for the need for NC is the fact there are more players now, who demand more. That means more staff and bandwith and, like you say, we have so many site events a year which we didn't used to have I'm sure TNT need all the man power they can get.

 

I quit neo around the time of the CoM plot (whenever that was...) and only came back August last year, and a lot had changed, but I could never really say it had gotten WORSE. Sure, I miss the fact that we don't have massive plots, but it would be just too expensive to train pets for a battle plot and probably take too long to create a puzzle plot - besides! Back in the old days that was all we had to look forward to! Now I'm like "what?! ANOTHER site event!?" -its crazy!

 

I do agree a lot about the boards becoming snooty though - but I don't think thats neo's fault, just the fact that the sites quite old now and people do get snooty when they've been on a site for 12 years talking to the same people, then some "noob" comes along... Its just what happens.

 

Staff seem fine, but I barely ever do anything to get warned anyway (barely use neomail or chat on the boards, so they can't really misunderstand anything...), however my Altador plots been glitched for months and I keep asking them to sort it and they never do, but hey - its one in a billion glitchs on the site! I can understand that.

 

I really do wish they'd sort out inflation... as I stamp collector I've got no chance at the avatar sets - 100 million for a stamp? haha, funny! Cause thats achievable...

[witte_lelie]

yes, definately downhill. IThe inflation is terrible, and so are the current plots. I also think those customisation things are quite stupid: I liked it better when the pets didn't have those weird poses, but just nice ones. some pets really look kinda weird now >.<

[idriya]

yes, definately downhill. IThe inflation is terrible, and so are the current plots. I also think those customisation things are quite stupid: I liked it better when the pets didn't have those weird poses, but just nice ones. some pets really look kinda weird now >.<

What are you even doing on the site, then? o.O It's clear you hate it now, so if you hate it so much, why not just quit or go on hiatus? I really hate the whole "love it or leave it" question, but I'm just curious.

 

But anyway, TNT has absolutely nothing to do with the inflation. It is entirely the fault of the users, so if you want to blame someone, blame them. And from what I've heard, Viacom pretty much forced AotA onto TNT, and they had no say in the matter, so they can't be entirely blamed for that, either. Heck, if it was up to them, AotA probably would have been the regular puzzles/battling we have come to know and love. Customization. . . eh, that's up to personal preference. But keep in mind that they have to have these so-called "weird poses" for customization. It would be impossible to customize UC pets, because they'd need a billion servers.

 

Also, I agree with a discussion I've been having with some friends. Neo has gotten a little better since 2010 began. I'm beginning to think something big happened in 2009, and they needed a huge amount of money very fast or something. I dunno. But anyway, let's look at what they've done so far in 2010:

 

- Activated thousands of MIA items

- This year's Neopies were WAY better than last years, although they could have had better choices for the categories

- I agree with what a user on the boards about Jumpin' Gem Heist. It's "fun, original, and cute".

- First staff tourney since ACI

- On top of this, I saw snarkie confirm the possibility of another Altador Cup Staff Tourney. She said "no promises", though, so don't get your hopes up

- First time they retired items since. . . forever. xP Made a good 700k there.

- Two new avatars in one day. When was the last time that happened? ;)

- Despite claims of people saying it's "too easy", I think the Daily Dare is being handled very well this year. No selling NC items, the prizes are nice, and AAA's prizes aren't just dumbed down versions of Lulu's prizes

- And on top of all that, there's a strong possibility of a new plot in March. ;) Although it's also possible they just wanted the Daily Dare out of the way so that the Springtime Celebration can coincide with April 4th (Easter), but there's no proof the Springtime Celebration was ever going to be annual, so either choice is possible

 

I rest my case.

[Divya Bean]

I dont think neo has gone downhill, but I dont really know because I wasnt here during the Golden Ages. The way everyone talks about it, I am dying to go back and take part in a war plot!! I really want another so that I cant experience it. But anyway, neo hasnt really gone downhill because....

 

Brand new games

TONS of new avvies for collectors like me

MUCH better graphics

They opened up a new place for gods sake! Moltara.

TNT is making some good changes like the new version of Faerie Land and Terror Mt.

I just dont think they have the time to make another good plot because they are trying to improve the allround site, not just do one event. But I am guessing they probably will because so many people want one.

[idriya]

TONS of new avvies for collectors like me

Back in the "Golden Age", they released one or two avatars per week. :/ But I actually kind of prefer them releasing avatars more rarely. It makes them seem that much more special when they do release a new avatar.

 

They opened up a new place for gods sake! Moltara.

Who cares? AotA sucked in every fathomable way. :P (not my opinion, just stating what the community seems to think)

 

TNT is making some good changes like the new version of Faerie Land and Terror Mt.

New Faerieland is prettier, but it's poorly coded, so it lags. A lot. And old Terror Mountain was WAY better.

 

I do, however, like the new Haunted Woods and Maraqua.

 

I just dont think they have the time to make another good plot because they are trying to improve the allround site, not just do one event. But I am guessing they probably will because so many people want one.

Problem is, in order to improve the overall site, they'd have to go back to the way they used to be. Or, that's how some people think anyhow. :/

[Divya Bean]

Back in the "Golden Age", they released one or two avatars per week. :/ But I actually kind of prefer them releasing avatars more rarely. It makes them seem that much more special when they do release a new avatar.

 

 

Who cares? AotA sucked in every fathomable way. :P (not my opinion, just stating what the community seems to think)

 

 

New Faerieland is prettier, but it's poorly coded, so it lags. A lot. And old Terror Mountain was WAY better.

 

I do, however, like the new Haunted Woods and Maraqua.

 

Man you make whatever I said seem really bad! Well I guess what you said made sense, but I dont know what I am talking about since I wasnt here in the Golden Age. For me, the new Faerieland and stuff work fine. Maybe its just because I have a good computer and some peoples computers arent as good.

Problem is, in order to improve the overall site, they'd have to go back to the way they used to be. Or, that's how some people think anyhow. :/

[eekabee]

As an older member I agree with the "Golden Age" not being perfect in my opinion it was pretty much the same warnings and freezings, favoritism. The new neo has issues but so did the old neo. And on the AotA I think it sucked so hard because of all the "altador plot iz 2 hrd!!1!!" So Viacom wanted to make it easier but then just need to find the happy median of killer and click and win. Also all the games needed to advance made me stop AotA, I really suck at games.

[idriya]

No, it sucked, because Viacom forced it onto TNT. Or so I heard. :/

 

I didn't see anyone complaining about the Altador Plot being too hard.

[RohanX]

i dont agree with the NC mall i got 3 reasons

 

1.Your using real money

2.People can think that your pet is royal. (happens to me)

3.Its just not fair.

[hrtbrk]

I dont think neo has gone downhill, but I dont really know because I wasnt here during the Golden Ages. The way everyone talks about it, I am dying to go back and take part in a war plot!! I really want another so that I cant experience it. But anyway, neo hasnt really gone downhill because....

 

Brand new games

TONS of new avvies for collectors like me

MUCH better graphics

They opened up a new place for gods sake! Moltara.

TNT is making some good changes like the new version of Faerie Land and Terror Mt.

I just dont think they have the time to make another good plot because they are trying to improve the allround site, not just do one event. But I am guessing they probably will because so many people want one.

 

I agree with mostly everything you've said, especially from a 'new user' point of view. I used to play many moons ago and it's truly an improvement from what I recall. Coming in as a new player, you are seeing the remakes of lands (and the addition of one), plus there are many avatars to collect (addicting!). The site actually holds my attention now and is much more community orientated which is awesome.

 

Plot wise, I'm sure they have the time to create a good one but they don't know what demographic to cater to. They attempted to mix a little bit of everything into one and it failed. Some users like game related plots, some like puzzle, some like war. It really fell short in AotA. I think they only truly wanted to release the Magma color and didn't really care about much else regarding the plot.

 

When it comes to the NC Mall, I don't really care as long as they don't make it into a staple (which I think they're trying to). Not every one has access which at times I do think is unfair.

'

Downhill? Not from a 'born again' users point of view.

[idriya]

i dont agree with the NC mall i got 3 reasons

 

1.Your using real money

2.People can think that your pet is royal. (happens to me)

3.Its just not fair.

 

1. So? Pretty much every site like Neo has some sort of paying option nowadays, and if it doesn't, then it's a site with not much to it.

 

2. Actually, you're the only one I've met who has said this.

 

3. Yet you fail to explain WHY it's unfair, although I can understand you saying this, since you're from a different country and all. And anyway, there's really nothing unfair about it. Clothing and Neohome furniture isn't giving anyone an unfair advantage in the overall game, and it's not like you can sell NC Mall stuff. The only time it's ever been unfair is Daily Dare '09.

[Spritzie]

I started Neopets in 2002. I've been playing off and on, ever since. I've always enjoyed everything about the site. I did then, I do now. Back then, I didn't get involved in hardly any of the site events. I never did plots.

 

And now that I'm back... I enjoy it more than before. Maybe, because I've gotten involved more, with site events. But I enjoy the new Neohomes, the customization for the pets... etc.

 

I can't say much for the plots, as the Altador is the only one I have taken part in.

 

As for the NC Mall. I like it. Have I used it? Yes. Do I use it often? No. The only time I use it, is if there's something amazing that I feel my pets can't live without. (Like the Faerie Cloud Racer background)

 

I have trouble figuring out why people don't like the NC Mall, or thinks it's unfair. Since, it doesn't give an advantage. It's just extra stuff you can get, though yes... it often has more interesting items. It's not even really advertised on the rest of the site. The only thing I can understand people getting irritated with, is the RE's that tell you your pet wants a Mall item. Those don't bother me, because I always ignore any RE telling me my pet wants something.

 

But that's just my opinion. I'm really easy going on the site. Where as, a lot of things that happen on the site, or the way things are handle, absolutely drive my husband crazy.

[idriya]

I have trouble figuring out why people don't like the NC Mall, or thinks it's unfair.

I can think of a few reasons.

 

1. I think the main reason is that people are stuck in the whole "Neo got along just fine on ads, Premium, merchandise, and sponser games in the 'Golden Age'. Why can't they now?" mindset. In their minds, those four things are ALL they need to keep the site running, and NC is nothing more than corporate greed and profit for Viacom. People view Viacom as being a corrupt, money-grubbing company, so that only makes things worse. However, I do believe NC is necessary to keep the site running, for the following reasons:

 

• 
   
  
• Ad blockers crush any profit ads may generate. Back in the "Golden Age", Ad Blockers weren't nearly as powerful as they are now, so TNT could easily get away with using ads for profit. Now that they're much more sophisticated, and more people are using them. . . not so much.
  
• Back then, many users had Premium, because it was worth it at the time. You could get an avatar, sidebar, weekly scratch cards SSW, Toolbar was Premium only, and you could beta test games. Now, I'd say around 1-2% of the entire Neopian population has it, since in these rough economic times, it isn't really worth it, unless you're an avatar collector or really want SSW.
  
• Back then, merchandise was plentiful. Now, most of it is retired. No way they make THAT much money off it.
  
• They probably still do generate income from sponser games, but there are very few of them, and not everyone can play them, so it isn't anywhere near sufficient.
  

 

2. It's like what I said before. The idea of using real money to buy virtual credits in general is a fairly new one that people aren't used to yet, especially when we remember a time when pretty much all sites like Neo were either entirely free or pay-to-play.

 

3. It's not NC itself, it's the fact that it's everywhere, even incorporated in events now. People think NC should just be in the NC Mall, nothing else (which I mostly agree with. I have no problem with it in the Daily Dare, Games Master Challenge, or New Games Challenge, however. The tickets work fine there). Plus, to many people, it seems TNT is puts more time and effort into the NC stuff than the NP stuff, but that is something that's up to personal opinion. I honestly don't care if the NC stuff is of a higher quality, because let's face it, if all of it was of equal quality, no one would buy NC stuff. xD

[melnick]

I think the good additions balance out the bad ones. Some bad things were (obviously, according to most peoples opinions) AotA, which required you to play games to advance.

 

But, some good things came too. First, the new games are great, with the quality and graphics, and the NC Mall hasn't been used as a scheme for easy money.

 

Some things that are highly anticipated are Altador Cup V ( Go Roo Island!) and the Advent Calendar will not go downhill anytime soon.

[Ranluka]

It does seem like the merchandizing has declined. And sponsered games seem to have dried up quite a bit.

 

Honestly tho, as long as NC items remain untradable and pure asthetic, they are perfectly fine. The problem comes when they can be traded for NP items, used in Battledome, or confer some type of bonus that helps with other, non-NC adjectives. (like those stupid little beads, glad that was short lived, and they had some foresight to add them to a site event as well)

 

I do think they'd get less resistance if they spent more time turning old clothing itmes in wearables and maybe upped the chance to get free NC via the Qasalan Expellibox.