Illegal Immagration

[Guest Sandi]

My beliefs are that if you come to this country, Do it properly.

 

Why its bad:

 

1. Terrorists from whoknowswhere EASILY get into mexico as the borders are worse than americas.

Then they can sneak into our country.

 

2. Drugs, black market, you name it easily get into the country everyday. This is one of the US's worst problems, as it

makes gangs and poverty and death.

 

3. They take jobs, working for next to nothing. This is harmful to the economy.

 

Okay, these aren't my EXACT beliefs, Their just to start a topic :guiltysmiley:.

[m3l3ana]

I can't stand overstayers or illegal immigration, whatever you want to call it. It is bad for the economy, it is against the law and there are generally reasons i.e. health, money, education, language that these people aren't allowed into the Country in the first place. :grrr: This topic makes me angry!

[Guest Levy]

Solution, electrify the fence! XD

 

Seriously, do other countries really have this problem? Canada doesn't have a problem with us...

[m3l3ana]

Well umm.. No we don't really have this problem as we are little Country and have no borders :P But I do know that we do get a percentage of illegal immigrants a year, not sure what it is though!

[Guest Levy]

Probably the spare Fishing troller carrying immigrants from other Oceania islands correct?

[m3l3ana]

Could be I suppose, but there is still immigration offices when you come into NZ via sea, so I am not 100% sure. And... it is not only the islands, they come from quite a few Countries.

 

Izzy might know a bit more about our illegal immigration status!!

[Ashley Rose]

1. Terrorists from whoknowswhere EASILY get into mexico as the borders are worse than americas.

Then they can sneak into our country.

 

2. Drugs, black market, you name it easily get into the country everyday. This is one of the US's worst problems, as it

makes gangs and poverty and death.

 

3. They take jobs, working for next to nothing. This is harmful to the economy.

 

Okay, these aren't my EXACT beliefs, Their just to start a topic guiltysmiley.gif.

 

1. Not so much....most of the terrorist are people who easily get in legally.

2. Did you know illegal immigrants actually are some of best law abiding citizens? They really don't commit many crimes, it's the citizens who do! (Well other than the illegal immigration part)

3. They take the jobs that we don't want....consider this....the majority of illegal immigrants pay taxes when the work, even if they are paid under the table they still pay taxes on everything at the stores and such. HOWEVER, they do not get those back like we do every year, they pay in but they don't get it back from income taxes because they don't file. They actually pay more into our country in taxes than they receive in any government benefits such as food stamps. Now I didn't just make up this info on undocumented immigrants (illegal immigrants) The Iowa Policy Project just did a huge amount of research on this.

 

Do you have any clue how long it takes to become legal, the process is outrageous! Many of the illegal immigrants are trying to become legal, but if they leave after applying for citizenship then they lose the chance of being a citizen. It's a huge mess really and it would take me hours to explain all that so I won't even go into it.

 

Ever heard of NAFTA? It's the North American Free Trade Agreement. The first year of NAFTA in Mexico, 80,000 manufacturing jobs created and one million agricultural jobs were lost. Since then 2 million small farmers were forced out of work due to subsidized U.S. agribusiness exports. Around 28,000 small and medium-sized businesses have been eliminated due to Mega-retailers, such as Wal-Mart, moving into Mexican market.

 

I could keep going but I'm going to stop now. But consider all the above. Really it's our fault they are immigrating here, we took away their jobs and forced them to come here looking for more. And those of you who say "they need to go back to where they came from, they are invading our country" Stop and think for a minute, I bet you don't belong here either then. Unless you're Native American, the "white" people came and took this land (U.S.) from the Native Americans, so really we are the illegal immigrants. Okay I'm off my soap box now! Sorry if I annoyed you with this, but I'm a social worker....this is simply part of my job.

[m3l3ana]

I guess illegal immigration is different for your Country than it is for ours. I mean come on we are a small island in the middle of the pacific lols.

 

The US is probably the most difficult Country in the world to get legal access to work, vacation, migrate, it is virtually impossible. I remember wanting to come over to work and unless I found a Company to sponser me over, there was no way the US were going to give me a working Visa no matter how short the trip. Getting a 3 month holiday Visa is ok, if you have absolutely no criminal history!

[Guest Sandi]

Yes, Electrify (sp) the fence. Its perfectly logical.

 

" I could keep going but I'm going to stop now. But consider all the above. Really it's our fault they are immigrating here, we took away their jobs and forced them to come here looking for more. And those of you who say "they need to go back to where they came from, they are invading our country" Stop and think for a minute, I bet you don't belong here either then. Unless you're Native American, the "white" people came and took this land (U.S.) from the Native Americans, so really we are the illegal immigrants. " -Ashley Rose

 

Some points true, But we have paid our debt, in my opinion. We've built a solid government, Helped the entire world whether our history with them,

Brought jobs to immigrants , that is, LEGAL ones.

 

Is it so bad that we ask for them to get social security, learn english, get an education, and a job to become a helpful part of society?

Excuse me for being politically incorrect, As I know politics are something humans must live by.

 

I'd like to see a drug crimes survey with race as a factor.

 

 

PS- I say ILLEGAL immigrants, i have no problem with legal ones. Tan tacos y burritos muy sabroso :P

This isn't about race, its about laws and culture.

Many people forget about culture, and look at the color of the skin.

[Ashley Rose]

I don't think we could ever repay our debt for what we did to the Native Americans. You cannot repay someone for destroying everything they ever had and what they knew. At least in my opinion. I think we have done a lot more damage than helped in a lot of places in the world too.

 

As I said previously, we make it virutally impossible for them to get a social security card and education. And the argument to get a job contradicts the whole "they are taking our jobs" argument. People seem to look at the worst case of an immigrant and apply it to all immigrants. I bet if people worked with the people I have worked with, seen the immigration raids and the impact on the families they wouldn't think so harshly about immigrants.

 

Of the 249,400 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses at yearend 2004, 112,500 (45.1%) were black, 51,800 (20.8%) were Hispanic, and 65,900 (26.4%) were white. (Came from drugwarfacts.org)

[Ellie_Penguin]

I think there are a lot of factors to take into consideration. I don't have a lot of time and I feel very tired, but I'll type as quickly as I can and give you my opinion on this.

 

 

If developing countries had the help they need, their citizens wouldn't be put in the situation of choosing to come illegally into the U.S. or any other country. While I dissaprove of illegal immigration, I agree with Ashley that we are to blame and I don't blame those who choose to come illegally. I would never do it, but sometimes I try to put myself in their shoes and think about how worried they are about their families that they can only think that entering the U.S. illegally is their last option. If you could imagine yourself losing EVERYTHING and living in a poor area, with barely anything to eat or drink, then I think you can sort of get a perspective of what I mean. Those people who want a better future for their families, are willing to give up ever entering the US in their entire lives (if they get deported and they choose to go back) just to save their own families. I remember going to South America and visiting the poor areas and they really do not have any options. You think they're oh so evil and they just want to ruin the whole country, but it is true that illegal immigrants tend to be more "descent" than the citizens themselves. They should have a law that whoever breaks the law gets to trade with one of those people. I used to think they know better not to come illegally, but they do really need the money to survive and help their families.

 

Papers take so long to process, depending on your case and you simply cannot go to any country to immigrate, unless you have a good sum of money. My friend immigrated not because her parents were professionals, but because they sold everything and got a good sum of money to be accepted. Of course, they found jobs and now they are citizens. Now we have to think about the poor people:

 

1) Do you think they got a good enough education to actually be accepted according to the law? You compete against other professionals in any field so their chances are minimum.

 

2) Money is the best choice, but they are poor so how can they earn money to actually afford to pay for the papers and move?

 

3) Obviously, they don't have any families who live in the U.S. and can help them. And if they do, they probably don't have enough money or they don't want to help them at all.

 

 

If the law changed and they gave a special program that would make it easier for them to prove they can do something for the country, then everything would be different. But, each application costs a lot of money, plus you have to provide all the necessary papers and most of the poor people do not have passports (I've seen it). Imagine how much they would actually have to spend just to get their own personal papers, then send the applications, then prove they have enough money to come, then wait and perhaps get rejected after trying. And while all of that happens, their kids get sick and die of hunger (it's true).

 

I don't approve of illegal immigration, but I think the U.S. and other countries need to provide aid to those developing countries so that they won't be put in the situation of choosing their own liberty to save their families. I don't blame those poor people who are honest and are just trying to save their families. I don't want to sound like I'm insulting them, but I've seen those people and they don't get a good education so believe it or not, some of them don't know the huge consequences. Unless you actually go there and spend time with them or be put in that situation, you wouldn't truly understand how bad they really get it. It's pretty much a death sentence for them, it's either working illegally or they die with their families.

[antiaircraft]

In my opinion, whether or not illegal immigration is permissible really depends on how laws on immigration are set. Many of the people who want to immigrate are (as mentioned earlier) from poor backgrounds, and are hoping for a better future for both themselves and their families. Immigration laws need to be adjusted to take this into account - if the laws are really that unfair (I get the impression that immigrating into the US is especially tough) then of course there will be illegal immigrants. However, I don't really know how immigration laws go, so I'm not really qualified to say much there.

 

One thing I have to mention though: there is no way you can use terrorism as an argument against illegal immigrants. Despite general stereotypes, terrorists are not stupid. With adequate funding, time, and organisation, it would be much easier to conduct a terrorist operation by entering into the country legally than risking an illegal entry.

[m3l3ana]

I can understand that some immigrants want to leave their countries for a better life, but unfortunately we can't save the rest of the world (although people try). I know NZ takes a certain number of people from all over the world in every year, for a number of different reasons, but I have always been a firm believer that if you want to move to a country to work/live then you need to

A. Speak the language (even if it is only basic);

B. Abide by their laws / rules etc.

 

I hate it when someone rings me up or I ring a customer service centre and the person on the other end of the line can barely speak a word of english and it takes me 30 mins to accomplish something I should have accomplished in 5 mins!! There is a reason that most Countries will not let a person in and that reason in valid for them!

[MarkOfEternity]

Here is a little interesting information: NAFTA was modelled after Germany. How? Prussia wanted to unite all of the splintered German lands, and they discovered that if each country used only one currency, soon each country would be interdependent with one another. It wasn't long before all the German nations united under Prussian rule and there was one Germany.

 

How does this relate? The United States original goal was to unite all of America. It is called "manifest destiny." We are not called the United States of North America, and we are certainly not called the United States of the middle part of North America. Our forefathers sought to turn ALL of America into one country.

 

The Solution? Annex Mexico and make all Mexicans citizens of the United States. It is the next logical step. The problem is that our nations leaders have become to conservative and opposed to change of any kind. The United States would be better off if we took care of the problem of illegal immigration by simply making it impossible for Hispanics to illegally immigrate (because they would be part of the union). To benefit this further, we would have more farmland, sites for housing, and a larger tax collection pool.

 

But this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[antiaircraft]

@Marianne: Well, I didn't say it was unreasonable to require people to have at least a basic command of the country's language. Indeed, I'm pretty sure going one step further and actually offering easy, simple and effective language courses would actually be a huge help. :yes:

[torridity]

I don't know a lot about immigration laws, and being a Canadian citizen haven't had to deal with illegal immigration to the extent that most Americans have, but I feel that the problem in general is a huge lack of equality. The people illegally immigrating aren't doing it to try and ruin your lives... they're doing it to save their own.

 

Sure, you can say that these people are security risks, work horses, drug mules, whatever - but a great deal of these problems would exist without them.

 

Can you honestly want to begrudge them the opportunity (which many people take for granted) to earn enough money to pay for proper food/water, housing, medical care, and education? Shouldn't you be proud that your country is so great that others will leave their own to flock to it? And didn't (most of) your own ancestors immigrate to your country themselves?

 

I know the issue is the illegality. Maybe you should consider the fact that the government makes immigrating such a long and difficult process the real problem.

[m3l3ana]

@ AA: But I know that NZ does offer simple english courses, however there are a lot of people over here that cannot speak the language. It is fustrating. I know they come over here for their own reasons, but I don't go over to someone elses Country (to live) a not have a grasp of their language and atleast be able to communicate with them

 

@ torridity: It is great that people want to immigrate to NZ and come and live here, it is a great Country and I am very proud to call myself a Kiwi!! But unfortunately we can only take in so many people a year and if you don't come here the legal way (or can't) there is generally a reason that Immigration wouldn't let you in in the first place. I know it is different for the US, as it is EXTREMELY difficult to get in there, but it is not as difficult in NZ, so unfortunately if you don't get in legally, then don't come in at all!!

[Ellie_Penguin]

so unfortunately if you don't get in legally, then don't come in at all!!

 

That's the "tricky" part. It is easy to say not come in illegally if you can't come legally, but you have to remember that most of those peoples' lives depend on it. It's literally either go for it or die. Those people do try to make it in their own countries and they do everything they can, so it is very sad to see illegal immigration as their last option. We can help bring more opportunities to those countries. How many celebrities are so rich because of OUR money (spending on concerts, merchandise, etc), and most of them simply don't care about helping others? Yet, we keep on feeding their pockets while people who deserve it die from starvation. Celebrities don't need more money, they have enough money to feed their next 2 generations. So there ARE ways to help those who need it.

[Ruto]

I would like to bring in a point on this debate. My stance on illegal immigration is currently neutral, but I just don't understand why we, the current generations of Americans living here, have to break down and learn Spanish so that we can better suit the Mexicans' needs. Whether or not they came legally, it's still odd that we have to learn the language of another country because the people that came from that country can't be bothered to learn English.

 

Put simply, if you want to come to the U.S., learn English. Which isn't what's happening right now. At least in Texas. I don't know what's going on in the other states.

[m3l3ana]

Yes there are ways to help, but the point is not whether we can help them, the point is that illegal immigration is illegal!! It is really sad that their lives depend on it, but so do a lot of other peoples lives and not all of them are illegally immigrating into other Countries! I sponser people overseas and give them money, I donate every year, I know a lot of people that do the same, but like I have said numerous times before there is generally a reason that Immigration wont let you into the Country and that reason is valid!!

 

YAY!!! Morgan completely backed up another one of my points! No offence to anyone intended, but there are A LOT of Asians, Indians and Islanders who have moved to NZ and can not speak English! I don't think they should be allowed here legally or illegally. If you can not speak the Language of the Country whether it be English, Dutch, Spanish, Portgues, Mandarin, Korean whatever, if you can't speak it to a BASIC level then I believe you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate to that Country!!!

[Ruto]

Super. ^_^

 

I mean, I'm not saying that I'm against other people's culture or anything. If anything, I'd like to try it out. I just don't want to have to learn a gazillion different languages when immigrants come to the U.S. because they don't want to learn English.

[Patch]

but is not that a lot of them don't want to learn to speak their new countries native tounge it that they don't have the time to learn it. its very hard to learn a new language when you are working 2 or more jobs just to pay the rent and other daily needs. i am in high school right now in an intercity and we have a lot of kids who's parents are illeage and if you talk to their parents it not as if the feel that Americans should learn Spanish just to communicate it that they dont have the time or the reasorces needed to learn a new language. so they learn how to say a few key sentences in English but to effectually have a intimate conversation with them you need to learn Spanish or at least understand Spanish.

sorry if i repeated my self quite a few times and the spelling mistakes

[m3l3ana]

But that is not our problem! Thay have come to our Country and therefore should speak our language!! Just because they are here and can not speak our language does not mean that we should have to accomodate them!! Like I have said before, we do not go to their Country to immigrate and not speak their language, so why can they not show us the same respect!?

[MarkOfEternity]

But that is not our problem! Thay have come to our Country and therefore should speak our language!! Just because they are here and can not speak our language does not mean that we should have to accomodate them!! Like I have said before, we do not go to their Country to immigrate and not speak their language, so why can they not show us the same respect!?

 

Actually, Americans are notorious for going to other countries and not speaking the language. That is probably one reason so many countries are bilingual, and so many foreigners speak multiple languages.