crxsnochic Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Ok, so I posted this once under another topic, but I saw so many people asking for help on so many of the threads, I decided to start a new thread. I hope this doesn't violate any TDN rules (and I'm very sorry if it does... please forgive!) ... I just thought more people would come across this if it had it's own topic. My thoughts on calculators: So far I've heard of a few people with frozen/scammed accounts and it's all happened after using a calculator. Do any of these calculators require password info? If they do... don't use it, I know completing this plot isn't worth risking my account! If you've used a calculator, I would recommend changing your password immediately, as I've heard that one of the calcs wanted password info. And, as to solving part 2: I just finished it today and I used the best calculator... my noggin (OK, maybe not the best cause it was definately slow and made mistakes at times) . Though I do have a headache now! Here was my strategy: I had made a chart out during the 2 mod part much like the one recommended on TDN. I did the same thing for the 3 mod as well (and as long as it's not considered cheating by TNT, I don't mind sharing it). There is another chart I saw listed on a petpage, I think I saw it referenced on one of the forum posts, but if anyone needs it, I can probably find the link, but instead of being a spread sheet, it was all listed in a single row down. once you start plotting the chart out, you'll notice patterns pretty quick, so you really don't have to manually put in every combo to find the answer. My chart was ordered as such: (I used L cause the one symbol looked like a lollipop to me... the rest you can probably figure out!) ..........X V C 8 L S O XXX XXV XXC XX8 XXL XXS XXO If you just plot these out, you'll notice a pattern develop, which helps with creating the complete chart. Though the chart will save you considerable time, it will still take a looonnnggg time, it just cuts down on how combos you try out of the 24360 possible combos for each puzzle. The next part was plugging in those mods. I started by putting mod 1 into the top mod slot, I would then take the first mod that had X as its first character and plug it into the second mod box. Then I would use my chart to figure out what character I would need in the third mod box to get my target. I would use this same method to figure out what I need for the second character as well. For example: You have CV...... as a starter and XO...... as your target. your mods are: 1. LS...... 2. C8...... 3. XV..... 4. VC..... 5. OX..... So I put in as my first two mods LS XV and I looked on my key and let's say that my chart says that CLXV gives me X and VSVC gives me O, so I would try mod 4 (VC.....) to see if it would work. I then would switch out my third mod box with any mods that has VC as the first two digits. Once I tried all working combos, i would then switch out mod box 2 with the next mod on the list that started with X and repeat this process. Once I finished all the X's as mod box two, I would then use all the mods that started with V as mod box two, then C,8,L,S,O. you can do that in any order, I just picked that order cause that is the order my chart was in. Once I cycled through all the letters for mod box 2, I would then change my first mod box from mod 1 to mod 2. and repeat. I know this sound lengthy (and it is) but there are tricks to make it go faster: Trick one: Let's say you've got a mod in for your second mod box that is XO...., for example. If there are no matches for the third mod that would get you to your target, then you can rule out any mods that start with XO to be able to work with the mod you have chosen as your first mod box. Trick two: Once you've tried all possible combos with mod 1 as your first mod box... you've cancelled that mod out as being an option. So, lets say mod 1. is VS....., if it didn't work in the first mod box after trying all your combos, then mod 1 will never work... even if you're using a combo that calls for VS as your starting digits. Therefore, you essentially rule out mods as you go. Worse case scenario is that Mods 28, 29, and 30 are your answer (or a mod 28 answer as I call it)... you would have done a lot of combos. But if mod 1 is part of your answer, you only end up doing a few combos. I had one puzzle with mod1 answer, 2 puzzles with mod 4 answer, so those went quick. But I had one puzzle with a mod 17 answer and that took over an hour! Trick three: Use more than two columns. The more columns you decipher out the fewer mod options you will have that fit... therefore the fewer moves you make. This does require more thinking and charting... but I think it saves time in the long run. Trick four: When cycling through your second mod box, make sure you use a system you can keep track of. Thats why I did all the X's, then all the V's, etc. Theoretically, you could just start with mod 2, then use mod 3, etc. for second mod box, but I found that if I organized it by the first letter, I would always know right away what the first letter of my third mod box should be, thus I would only have to chart out my second (and third if I wanted) column. Note: When reading this, I tried to keep my references consistent so... "first mod box" means the top box that mods can be moved into, "mod 1" means the mod numbered 1 out of the selection of 30 mods. Hope this helps anyone who is stuck If TDN would like to repost this guide anywhere on this site... TDN is more than welcome to. I can also provide my spread sheet chart for TDN to post. Just let me know. Also, if anything seems unclear in this... let me know and I'll try to explain. I hope I made it as clear as possible. It is a very hard puzzle, and thus very hard to explain! Good luck to everyone in completing step 2... and yes, step 3 is MUCH easier... so once you've finished decoding you can breathe a sigh of relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRuby Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 If you read my post in Calculator is Illegal? then you know I didn't want to do any helping, however that was because I couldn't come up with a viable solution that could not be construed as cheating.... however talking things over with my wife and some testing and playing we found a way to end the confusion and make a helpful non cheating calculator (one that does not auto find the answers)... so instead of supplying a file to use or a website to do this from, I will explain the process of how to understand the way it all works and allow you to find the answers faster... first off you MUST have Micro$oft's Excel any version should work, I am using 2000 and 2003 and both have the feature you will need but I'm sure that almost all of them have it.... once you open your document you need to find a COMPLETE list of the combo's and their results (i can't help you here but i have heard that Charmander and vulpix have them on their petpage im not sure of the complete pet names) or you can find them all yourself... now the hard part.... you have to type them into the spreadsheet leave the 1st row empty **** Leave the 1st Row Empty **** you want to type them like this (one combo per row) you will be entering the data for one Character Key, Mod, Mod, Mod, Result - remember one character so you should have something like 8,8,8,8,V don't use commas you will tab to the next cell so you should have only one character per cell once you enter ALL the possibilities you can then use this to find the answers faster now once you have this you select the cells you left blank above your combos (to make it easier on you put labels in the top row type "key" "mod1" "mod2" "mod3" & "result") and then goto the "Data menu" select "Filter" then "Autofilter" once you do that you will see dropdown menu boxes... Screen Shot 1 goto the last box which is the result and select the character that the result should be on the first box select the character of the key Now narrow it down by the mods Screen Shot 2 what this just did is narrow down all the data to just the ones that will work for that combo, most likely there will be 2 or 3 likely suspects in the data thats left WRITE these Down make a list for each one so if you have 1,2,3,4,5 2,3,4,5,1 you will write down like this 2 3 4 3 4 5 as the 1st and last are the key and result repeat this process for the next 3 characters (or more if you want to get an exact result) just add the next characters to the ones next to what you have so you would have it like this 2 8 3 7 4 9 3 3 4 4 5 5 just keep plugging along and you will decode it a lot faster than trial and error but no where near as fast as a auto calc but then you'd be cheating :P remember that once you have your lists you need to look for the mods that follow those patterns however this may still need to be tweaked to work but it will help you to understand how the logic works for this... and after the first 2 you will be able to pick the pace up and solve them faster :> Now Another Way To Do This Is By Using the reference charts that have them like this but i prefer my way Key , Mod1Mod2Mod3, Target 8 , XXX , V these 2 screen shots show that method Alt 1 Alt 2 BlackRuby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Heh, this is quite a nice trick. :yes: Spreadsheet programs are always such handy tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRuby Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Post Removed - Threads Were Merged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I don't think so, but a link between the threads should be sufficient. You'll have to ask a mod to get a solid answer for your question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xepha Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Topics merged :) I'm going to work on some things to add into the page. I'm not sure if it will be up tonight or tomorrow though. Edit : It will be tomorrow because I'm way too tired to stay up another 30-45min to put it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crxsnochic Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 Ok, I put a reply on here about 10 minutes ago, but I don't see it... so I'm sorry if this double posts... but it went something like: Very cool method BlackRuby. There are many different methods to this puzzle, so i'm sure everyone who didn't quite understand my way will be very appreciative of another method. Each person will be sure to have their favorite.... or the one they 'dislike the least' maybe! Man this puzzle sucks! I've sent a copy of my chart to TDN staff and I 'think' they intend on posting it sometime tomorrow, I'm guessing on TDN plot guide page for RoS. I will not be making a chart for BlackRuby's method though (and it sounds like he won't either!) cause I had nightmares about those stupid symbols last night and I'm looking forward to wonderful symbol-free sleeping in the nights ahead. Sorry everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Wow, part 2 really leaves an impression... :P I'm disinclined to agree with the statement 'this puzzle sucks' though, as I found it quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crxsnochic Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 yeah, actually I kinda liked it too... or I would have never written out a guide! But, as I didn't it completed before sleeping..... well, I'll just say that I'm a bit obsessive over finishing things before walking away for awhile. :) I guess everyone has their own weirdness and that's mine. My friends have learned to keep crosswords, sudokus, and cryptograms well away from me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xepha Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Guide updated :) Thanks a bunch for all the infos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaircraft Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Well, the fact that we have forum members contributing to the plot guides shows just how much of a helpful community TDN is. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRuby Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I will not be making a chart for BlackRuby's method though (and it sounds like he won't either!) cause I had nightmares about those stupid symbols last night and I'm looking forward to wonderful symbol-free sleeping in the nights ahead. Sorry everyone! Don't Worry... I Went through it, and made the chart... so if any TDN staff want to review this one... which once again is NOT a automatic logic calculator, but a simple method to help narrow down the choices.... This is Created in MS Excel, and uses NO MACROS. THIS FILE IS NOT CHEATING well its being reviewed right now... we will see what the outcome is... hopefully we can use this.... although if not.... i have to say I'M DONE! I can't keep using up the last remaining brain cells i have to solve this for everyone else... i used to many already :P This post has been edited by a member of staff (Isabel) because of a violation of the forum rules. Please don't double post; use the edit button. Posts merged. Please check your user inbox to see if you have been contacted regarding this incident, then review our rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parshy Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 That was a nice guide, but do you think you can put some scrennies in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crxsnochic Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 I might... but I'm not sure how to access the puzzle now that I've completed it... it just send me straight to the comics. We'll see if I have any time to try and figure it out and put some up. Schools gotten a bit insane for me at the moment... and I still need to figure out how to beat the 175 hp battledome challenger for ROS part 4 with my weakling little pets. I've seen some other guides out there, especially on petpages that have screenshots. They are usually very similar guides but with a slightly different way of explaining.. but the screenshots would be very similar. If you do a google search it should bring some of those up. Sorry, wish I could be of bit more immediate help to you... maybe this weekend... if I finish my Physics homework! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xepha Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I don't think you will be able to beat the 3rd guy, with your stats... As for screenies... what kind would need to be added? I screenied all my steps so far, so I can probably produce something, if it is needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parshy Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I was talking to the guy who used excel. But V if you have one, that would be great,. I really hate this part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRuby Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I was talking to the guy who used excel. But V if you have one, that would be great,. I really hate this part Ok I Added Some Screen Shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crxsnochic Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Cool, cause I really didn't want to bother with screenies... I might of cause I like helping people out... but that still doesn't mean would of had a blast doing it! Oh, and Xepha... yeah I have no chance for the 3rd guy. I've currently beat the easy guys 30 times, and have a draw for the 2nd guy (should be able to pull out one or two wins on him), but the third guy will be undoable for my current stats. I'm content though.. I just found out you don't have to beat all three to continue... it just affects total points. I can live with that ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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