Religion: Good or Bad?

[internalxorgans]

Well religion gives everyone a guide to life, what they should do and what they should not. Most religions tell people right from wrong so I think that religions are good.

 

This may be true but then again almost no one follows the rules so then again it's not true. People believe in these religion but just because they believe doesn't mean they follow the rules. People are still killing, stealing, lying, cheating, raping, and etc. How has religion done any good?

[jasper_111]

Well, I'm pretty sure you have lied or cheated at one point during your life and no one questions you. It's because it is a common human experience, no one is perfect but God is. So we can look at him as an example and learn to be the best person we each individually can be. We don't have to copy him exactly, that's quite impossible. As humans, we don't have the capacity. God loves you even when you have strayed and sinned. As humans, we tend to get carried away with worldly matters. God brings us back to what really matters.

 

By the way, you cannot say almost no one follows the rules of their religion. Many people are very adherent to their religion. If they are not, then they don't believe in it. Of course, we make mistakes but if it's constantly it's obviously not a mistake, You're getting fooled by people who claim to be religious but really aren't. It's surprising how you talk of people sinning by lying, cheating, killing, etc. yet you don't consider that they are lying to you, to the world. It's also surprising how people who don't have a religion talk of reason and logic to be the ultimate answer, which yes sometimes it is, but they tend to miss the human factor in everything, skewing the results. We are dealing with people here, not data.

[karmacow]

Reason and logic go a long way - I would add compassion and then I think we're close to the ultimate answer, if we're using that term. That's very absolute... Not feeling totally comfortable with absolutes.

I'm puzzled about how you determine whether people are "actually religious". The Westboro Baptist church are pretty adamant that they are religious, but most people would have a hard time to find any good in them and even non-religious people would say that they are completely misinterpreting the bible. But they believe. If they don't, I admire their devotion to the cause, whatever that is.

[jasper_111]

You don't have to tell me reason and logic go a long way.....I'm all for science; I'm saying your not using those skills; your using your bias on religion and believe me, I've been there plenty of times. It's easy to blame others for the problems in our world and yes I say our world because we all live here, it's all of ours to take care of. There is no ultimate answer. Not really, at least. Not everyone feels the same or experiences the same things. It's a personal experience to find what your answer is. Those who try to look at science for it are looking in the wrong direction for that reason, it's inside of us. Science has done great wonders and has it's place in my heart, but I just happen to believe in God and it's an important part of my life too that's all. I'm not saying you have to believe but don't blame religion for all the wrongs in the world. That's the only thing that bugs me. It's not like because I'm religious I'm any more likely to kill or murder you. It's what the religion teaches and how you teach it, I guess? I'm not sure how to explain it, but it's not that religion is bad, anymore than science is bad. Science has its own moral issues the same as religion and not everyone agrees with that. If that makes any sense.

 

My explanation is that if someone is religious to a certain religion, then you would expect them to follow that religion. Of course, there are different interpretations but there's at least a common thread like love for one another. Murder and rape is not loving one another. I'm just saying like if someone were to murder a child and then claim "God made them do it", it's not a valid excuse, is it? I guess there could be a religion out there like that or something else (I really hope not) but people are just using it as an excuse to do things they know they shouldn't.

 

Anything I say isn't directed at anyone by the way, it's in general. It's frustrating when you're talking to someone who isn't religious and they're talking of how bad religion is yet when you put your thoughts into it, they dismiss it just because they don't believe Now, isn't that bad in and of itself? I didn't say you had to believe, but have the decency to talk to me like a human being. We are so quick to dismiss others opinions when we can just learn from each other and live in harmony.

 

The Westboro Baptist Church calls itself following a religion which technically I guess it is, since they have a church and followers but what they're following I don't know. It's not baptist; they're not affiliated with any baptist denomination and have been called a hate group. They're more of a cult it seems now, but I admit, if they do last over a few generations, I suppose they could become a religion. They don't seem to believe in the bible, more of money because they live off of lawsuits. I haven't heard them once actually explain what they believe, so I don't know if I'm missing information or they really don't know.

 

In the end, I agree with you, but what I'm trying to say is religion is formed by people and depending on the character of the people, it determines the religion. In turn, religion is not the issue, people are.

 

I'm not very good with social skills or explaining things for that matter, so I'm sorry if you may have been mislead in any way.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Hmm. Jasper, you seem to assume that everyone who disagrees with religion has a bias against it. Wouldn't you say that is a bias? It's also surprising that you would say that people here are not using logic and reason--really, we have used nothing but. The mere fact that you disagree with it does not mean it is not logical.

 

Using the argument that "religion is good and your counterexample doesn't count because those people aren't ACTUALLY religious" unfortunately is neither sound nor valid. (Not sound because the premises are not true, and not valid because even if they were, the conclusion could not be assumed from those premises.) If your definition of religion encompasses only that which is good, then of course you will believe that religion has only done good. But that isn't what religion is. Religion is faith in a higher power, faith that then gives you rules to live by. There is good. There is bad. And if you read my posts, you'll see precisely why I believe the bad outweighs the good.

 

You absolutely have to count the people like the Westboro Baptist Church, religious suicide bombers, the woman who said that God told her to drive 100 miles per hour in a 35 zone. You must. Why? Because these people are specifically following a religion, following a faith. And the question we're asking is, has religion done more good than harm or more harm than good? I would prefer to rephrase the question thusly: If religion did not exist and had never existed, would the world be better than it is now?

[jasper_111]

People would be doing the same things they are now regardless of if religion existed or not. I'm pretty sure you make decisions on your own right? Like I said use your logic, listen to what I'm saying and maybe you'll understand a bit of what I'm saying. I didn't even say religion was good, I said the people were. I said I happen to believe religion has done good in my personal life. Maybe if you stop thinking I'm trying to shove religion down your throat and actually listen to me you would know that. I don't care if you believe, I don't care if other people believe, I don't care if they believe in worshiping mashed potatoes.

[Finn the Human]

This may be true but then again almost no one follows the rules so then again it's not true. People believe in these religion but just because they believe doesn't mean they follow the rules. People are still killing, stealing, lying, cheating, raping, and etc. How has religion done any good?

If people don't follow religion, that is not the religions fault. And not all people believe in religions.

[summerinx]

I was surprised by the poll results. I thought more people would be in favor of religion. Who knew :P

 

SO on to religion. People have basic instincts about the morals they follow. Religion is just a way for people to justify their pre-existing morals. So I don't exactly blame religion for people's cruelty, nor do I credit it when people are kind.

 

What religion does do, correct me if I'm wrong, is give one an ultimate authority to blindly follow. That's the part I have a problem with. It gives people an imaginary motivation to do things that religious texts say they should do, without questioning if it actually benefits anyone.

Like previously mentioned, the pope has been going around telling people to not use contraceptives because the Bible says they're wrong. Gay people have gone through so much crap because various religions says they're wrong, etc, etc.

 

People become BLIND when they think this authority in the sky is the one to dictate our morals. THAT is why I think we can be better off without religion.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Maybe if you stop thinking I'm trying to shove religion down your throat and actually listen to me you would know that.

 

Well, I didn't think you were trying to shove religion down my throat, but now I have no choice but to think you're shoving assumptions down my throat. I did listen to you--you'll notice I even addressed one of your points. The only reason I didn't address all of your points (I assume this is why you believe that I'm not listening to what you are saying) is that I already addressed your precise arguments in previous posts. Look on page 2. I do not have any kind of bias against religion--once again, you are mistaking people who disagree with you for people who are biased against you. All I ask of you is that if you are going to accuse others of being quick to dismiss what you say, then please do not be quick to dismiss everything that others say--you immediately accused others of not using logic and reason without even listening to what they are saying.

 

In this case, I did not address every single one of your points because I have actually addressed them before, but I will do so if you like.

 

People would be doing the same things they are now regardless of if religion existed or not.

People are good, or people are bad, regardless of religion. But there are two qualities of religion that make the difference between what people do with religion and what people do without:

1) Large groups of people, united, can do so much more than individuals divided. Power makes a huge difference--and religion gives people power.

2) Religion asks you to put faith in a higher power rather than in yourself. In doing so, you are asked NOT to question authority. Even though individual religions may encourage you to think for yourself, the general rules of religion ask you not to question and to accept things based on faith. I'm guessing here is where you think I have a bias against religion, but this is purely based on the definition and based on observations of the more accepting religious people I know. I'm not saying that religious individuals cannot think for themselves, however; this is just a truism of religion itself.

 

I always find it necessary to question the rules. If the rules are fine, then my questioning them will not hurt them. If they are not fine, then my questioning can change them for the better. I always question why I have such and such beliefs, and they always come back to utilitarian "do no harm" principles. That's not to say I break laws or anything--I work to understand why they are necessary, and then see if they need any changing. But while it is possible to do this with religion, it is considered going against religion to do so. If you question the existence of God, are you following your religion?

 

Large groups of people definitely make a huge difference. And religious people in large groups can make a HUGE difference. They can do wonderful things. Religious people get together and form a strong community that supports one another. They form charities. They can do amazing things that individual people...well, individual people can do amazing things, but put a bunch of amazing people together and they are bigger than the sum of their parts.

 

Unfortunately, they can also do terrible things. The Spanish Inquisition and all other heretic-burnings--while an outdated example, they show what happens when bad people get a hold of this kind of power. And while you may not believe that cults are religions, they still fall under the definition of the set of beliefs you have in regards to a higher power. A lot of really bad people in cults can do really horrible things that they could not do without the assistance of religion. You can manipulate people much more easily with religion--scary, but true.

 

Do you remember when Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped? A very high-profile kidnapping a decade ago--aaaaand I feel old again for the second time today, the first being when I got an ergonomic collapsible cane as a gift and I was really excited about it. Give me two minutes while I get this feeling of being old out of my system. Mmkay, I'm back. She was kidnapped by a Mormon Fundamentalist who believed that God told him to kidnap her and force her into a polygamous marriage. Crazy guy? Oh, yes. Would still be crazy without religion? Of course he would. If he were not religious but still crazy, would he have still found some reason to kidnap her? I would say at least 80% yes. But here's the thing: religion gave him power. Elizabeth Smart was a Mormon, though not FLDS like her captor. Because she was a devout Mormon, a good Christian girl (in my opinion, Mormons are Christians), it was easier to manipulate her. It wasn't long until she did not try to get away because of how successful he was in convincing her to comply. Had he not had the power of religion, she could have escaped months earlier.

 

Sadly--and horribly--things like this will happen. And I believe that the great many negative things that have happened that were assisted by religion have outweighed the positive.

 

 

 

Now, do I believe that means that religion should be banned? No. Religion is like a knife. It is a useful tool in the hands of the good. It only has bad effects when in the hands of the bad. I am not a rule utilitarian--I am a utilitarian. And I believe that in regards to religion, the best world we can get is one in which we keep the good effects of religion while somehow removing the bad.

 

 

On a completely separate note, everyone uses the Westboro Baptist Church as an example of religion gone wrong. I completely agree, and I hate them...but I have to say, I think their effect on the world is overall a positive one. Sounds weird? Of course it does. But have you noticed how atheists and religious people alike have united against them? We get along so much better with a common enemy.

[~Xandria]

I would prefer to rephrase the question thusly: If religion did not exist and had never existed, would the world be better than it is now?

Karina you are spot on. I often dream and wonder about what the world would be like if religion didn't exsist. I believe it would be a much MUCH better place. There wouldn't be a force driving the hate. If there was hatred and anger in someones heart, then it would be his/her's alone not the followers as a whole.

 

I don't have much to add to this topic anymore, everything I've wanted to say has already been covered. I don't see how it can be put into terms that are any easier to understand. Perhaps religion is a positive thing for an individual (depending on how they use it) but it is not, never has been, and never will be a positive ideal for the world as a whole.

[rachiee]

It can go both ways.

Religion is good because it has brought together so many cultures and people living in different regions over time, and it is a way to unite people with the same beliefs and ideas. That is the most basic reason why religion can be a good thing, and in my opinion, the only reason.

However, it is bad because, at the same time, it has caused tension and strife between peoples who used to peacefully coexist, and it has also caused the deaths of many because of plain intolerance and disagreement with the idea of religious tolerance and unity.

What I'm also trying to say is that, in the past, organized religion was more of a good thing than it is now, because what your religion was basically shaped who you were as a person.

I'm not trying to say that organized religion was all sunshine and rainbows back then, because it wasn't. (One example that supports this that stands out to me is the Protestant Reformation- the sale of indulgences, general corruption in the Church, popes and princes at war with each other for power, clergy living extremely lavish lives and using the church's money for their own benefit, things like that went on during this time. Of course, there was reform and people stopped selling indulgences and the corruption in the Church died down, but it still left a negative mark on the Church and organized religion in general.)

[sarria33]

I think religion is good. It gives people a meaning to life, brings people together, establishes morality. Everyone has different religions, just like everyone has different beliefs so I think that's the only reason people fight over religions. People would fight even without religion.

[DearlyStars]

Morality is an evolutionary concept. Religion did not establish it. I think religion has done more bad than good. I'm an atheist, personally. However, I have no problem with religious people as long as they don't try to force their religion onto other people.

[MaskedBeastDesGardius]

I hate religion . It sucks . Especially islam , makes me vomit. Thats why im Atheist <3

 

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[b_alasdair]

Here's the opinion of a secular person who's uncomfortable identifying as an atheist because of the way some of them act towards certain groups of people.

 

People have, at times, committed atrocities and attempted (with varying success) to use religion to justify their actions. This isn't an excuse to condemn an entire religion and all its adherents, though. Truthfully, the most pervasive problem of religion today is dogmatism, which leads individuals to believe they've a right to legislate the lives and conduct of others using their religion. Looking more closely, one begins to see a pattern to this activity. Take, for example, women's rights that are being attacked by religious people. These attacks are motivated by misogyny and a dogmatic interpretation of the religion, empowered by patriarchy, and religion is used as an attempt to justify legislating (whether formally or informally) away a woman's rights. The effect is similar with any group attacked by religious individuals. They are motivated by bigotry and dogmatism, empowered by privilege, and religion is brought in again as justification.

 

In short: The problem does not lie with religion in general. The problem lies with privileged individuals who attempt to use their religion to justify their dogmatic bigotry.

[wakka9ca]

The third option is misleading since it says "don't know", implying ignorance. As such, there should be a fourth option:

"Religion is neither good nor bad, it depends on how it is interpreted and what poltical/social/cultural driving force is behind its interpretation"

 

Of course, I assume we are talking about the Abrahamic religions in general, which are interestingly monotheistic religions. Monotheistic religions usually put the emphasis on a centralized authority (ultimately God).

 

There are too many differences among different "religions" (and cults) to reduce it to a question of "good or bad". Too much simplification is involved.

[Mireia]

My opinion might not be really objective, as i am an atheist, raised by an atheist family. Even my grandmother is atheist, and actually she hates religion more than me.

 

I'll try to explain as best as I can, but being a non native English speaker I might have some problems expressing what I men, so sorry :P

 

I firmly believe that religion has done more bad than good globally, because many people use it as an excuse to do whatever they want. There are many wars all over the world because of that, mainly between abrahamic religions. They are essentially the same, with some differences when interpreting the sacred books, so I don't understand all this fighting.

 

When I try to think what good has come from religion, only bad things come to my mind. Really. Religion does not unite people, in small communities maybe, but when it comes to large groups it fails. There are many countries that are struggling because they have two, or more religious groups fighting.

 

I live in a non confessional state (Spain) but everyday I see how religion is taking more and more power on the government on issues so important as the abortion rights or same sex marriage.

 

Religion should be kept private, but it never is. Every time I see a president, or a government saying things like "God bless you" or accepting they responsibility in the government with one hand over the bible (I don't know how to say it in English, I hope you understand what I mean) it makes me mad.

 

Religions imposes, always, and that's what I do not like it. It affects me, even when I'm not part of it.

 

It makes people conformists, it makes people not to question anything as it is God's will, and most of all it makes people hate.

 

I know I'm making it general, I know many religious people who are not like that, but as i see the world, the majority is like that.

 

For me religion is mythology, and I see no difference between praising Jesus or Thor.

[coltom]

There are two types of people, those that "know the truth" and try to shape the world to fit their preconceptions, and those that accept the world and use it learn the lessons that we must learn.

 

The first kind, use dogma as a tool to impose their insanity upon any they can. These are the people that believe they have the answer their way is the best, they understand it all. They may call themselves Republicans, atheist, Christian or true believers, but in the end they all pretty much act the same, and have the same insanity that they know the "Truth".

 

Then there are others, that know some and don't know all. They know that they have a mind and skills to discover, learn, try, fail. They know as my religion teaches, that sometime we don't take the path, sometimes the path finds our feet. The journey does not end, it does not begin, it just is. I may know, that all that I am, all that I shall be and all that I might have been will someday be forgotten. That none will remember my name, my kin nor my clan. Yet it does not matter, as the world tells us that there is reason to live in honour by our deed, that love is its own reason for being. That somethings matters.

[Atomic_Goose19]

Religion has caused some bad fights but it can also bring people closer. I am personally Athiest but I don't mind if people believe in religion, if everyone could accept that and not fight, just quietly believe then I think everything would be cool, unfortunetly some people just like to start stuff... :/

[~Xandria]

My opinion might not be really objective, as i am an atheist, raised by an atheist family. Even my grandmother is atheist, and actually she hates religion more than me.

 

I'll try to explain as best as I can, but being a non native English speaker I might have some problems expressing what I men, so sorry :P

 

I firmly believe that religion has done more bad than good globally, because many people use it as an excuse to do whatever they want. There are many wars all over the world because of that, mainly between abrahamic religions. They are essentially the same, with some differences when interpreting the sacred books, so I don't understand all this fighting.

 

When I try to think what good has come from religion, only bad things come to my mind. Really. Religion does not unite people, in small communities maybe, but when it comes to large groups it fails. There are many countries that are struggling because they have two, or more religious groups fighting.

 

I live in a non confessional state (Spain) but everyday I see how religion is taking more and more power on the government on issues so important as the abortion rights or same sex marriage.

 

Religion should be kept private, but it never is. Every time I see a president, or a government saying things like "God bless you" or accepting they responsibility in the government with one hand over the bible (I don't know how to say it in English, I hope you understand what I mean) it makes me mad.

 

Religions imposes, always, and that's what I do not like it. It affects me, even when I'm not part of it.

 

It makes people conformists, it makes people not to question anything as it is God's will, and most of all it makes people hate.

 

I know I'm making it general, I know many religious people who are not like that, but as i see the world, the majority is like that.

 

For me religion is mythology, and I see no difference between praising Jesus or Thor.

Wow, very well said. Glad I came across your post as I feel the exact same way. I'm more of an anti-theist than anything, if I'm being completely honest and your reasoning is completely valid.

I'd also like to point out the injustices to the scientific community in the name of religion. As you pointed out, it tells people not to think but to rely solely on faith. So when science comes out with something that is conflicting with a religious view, science and religion are at war and still are. From an American perspective, only about half of the people here believe in evolution. Only half. It just blows my mind when we have so much evidence to the contary. It's my belief that science and free thinking is what will turn this world into a better place. If that ever happens? I don't know. I do know the atheist population is growing and so is the number of people who believe in evolution, slowly that is. To me, I'd go as far to say that religion is a form of child abuse. Scaring a young child into thinking there's a special place in hell for all the "bad people". Not only is it misleading but scary to a young child. I would love to see this world start putting more empthasis on science and reason and less on religion.

[wakka9ca]

@Mireia and Xandria:

 

Devout anti-theism is just as bad as the things they hate the most: the imposition of a belief - that of anti-theism.

 

What you described so far in terms of negative effect of religion can also be seen in socio-cultural aspects outside of religion, notably despotism, excessive capitalism and most of the extreme forms of activism in the world. These are not effects uniquely restricted to religions, but more of human social tendencies as a whole.

 

Religion is not the root of all the problems. Some of them yes but not all of them. An entirely secular state does not mean those same problems are not going emerge.

[Mireia]

@Mireia and Xandria:

 

Devout anti-theism is just as bad as the things they hate the most: the imposition of a belief - that of anti-theism.

 

What you described so far in terms of negative effect of religion can also be seen in socio-cultural aspects outside of religion, notably despotism, excessive capitalism and most of the extreme forms of activism in the world. These are not effects uniquely restricted to religions, but more of human social tendencies as a whole.

 

Religion is not the root of all the problems. Some of them yes but not all of them. An entirely secular state does not mean those same problems are not going emerge.

I am not a devout atheist, I do not consider atheism as a religion. I do not have faith, as it implies not having evidence.

 

What you mention about socio-cultural aspects is true. However I'd like you to consider how our culture (any culture) has its roots on religion, so does our moral. Even I recognize that many of my culture, and festivities are religious related. I know, Christianism is part of my cultural heritage. How does that affect to how I behave, or how i see the world. I guess it does a lot.

 

Also, I am just giving my opinion, not imposing anything. I've never, ever, tried to convince a religious person to stop believing in God.

 

However, many religious people try to impose their beliefs on me. And I'm going to give you a very personal example. I am lesbian, and i have to hear everyday, in my own country, how I'm unable to raise a child. Or how i am sick, or confused, or that I suffered from child abuse (yeah, someone told me that) and that's why I do not have a "natural" way of expressing my feelings. That's what religion says about me. I don't know how you see it, but that's what I call "imposing"

 

I wouldn't care about that If it weren't that these opinions (Rouco Varela, Spanish bishop, has said all those things, many times) are being seriously considered on my government. Catholic Church in Spain is a true lobby, and is getting more power everyday.

 

I believe that, as you said, religion is not the root of all the problems, but it's one of its main causes.

[wakka9ca]

Well, the denial and persecution of homosexual relationship is not necessarily restricted to religions. There are many political regimes that are as secular as it can be but show the same level of openness as some of the most religious fundamentalist. What your are describing is the persecution of a minority. Like you agreed on, religion is only one part of the problem. Even without religion, homosexual relationship are still badly perceived in many societies due to misconceptions, prejudices, ignorance or simply bigotry. It's very hard to get rid of.

 

Even in Christianity, the Bible does not *explicitly* imply that homosexual relationship is sinful. There are instances which it seems like it condemns homesexuality but in fact can be interpreted as condemning abuse and unhealthy relationships. I don't think there is a passage that explicitly prohibit homosexual relationship other than the ones condemning relationship outside of marriage (which simply means there is a loophole in the Bible in a sense that it does not take into account many of the sociocultural changes that happened in the last century). Thus, it's the interpretation of religion that is problematic. Clashes between different sects are simply due to different interpretation of the same sacred texts, where the original meanings were often lost in translation. People obsessed with the absolute "truth" have a hard time accepting the fact that there might be alternate "truths".

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Here's the thing, though: even if religion doesn't cause the problem in every case, it often prevents a solution.

 

With the gay marriage banning, or the gay-bashing, or all other forms of homophobia, people hide behind their religion. Then we can't say "Um, no, you can't do that" because then we're allegedly discriminating against people for religion. Because they get to use that as an excuse, they get to pretend they are every bit as persecuted as people who *are actually persecuted*. And that's how they manage to stop the legislation--by convincing people that if we allow gay marriage, then people will stop them from being allowed to have churches, etc.

 

Take away the excuse of religion, and people have no choice but to say "I just don't like it." And that doesn't stand up in a court of law.

 

Not like one's personal religion SHOULD stand up in a court of law as an excuse to take rights away from others, but...

[~Xandria]

Exactly. It's short and sweet. Keep religions out of schools, out of laws, and either in the church or in the home. It has no place to govern people's lives, yet we see it everyday.