Off Topic Board: A Review

[Samuel]

Don't want to read a lot? Then please do NOT contribute to this discussion. Only discuss if you are willing to read and accept a lot of text.

 

What makes TDN Forums what it is today?

 

Some might say the members, others might say the wide range of backgrounds. It's unlikely though, that someone answering this question would respond along the lines of "great, interesting, indepth posting on a forum that covers a wide range of opinions where everyone gets to contribute". That's the answer the staff here would like to recieve, but the likelihood of that is extremely low. There's a bounty of reasons, but one in particular has caught our eye.

 

At the time of writing, 17,412 posts have made up one of the forum's most successful topics - the Off Topic Board was one of the earliest topics on the forums, and is no doubt the most popular. In essence it breaks a foundation rule of the forums, to keep topics on-topic.

 

We're irked. The board is no doubt one of the major pillars of the forum, but it is a haven for spam and random chat. The hosting for these forums isn't free - hence the new TDN adBot - and a load of rambling really isn't helpful.

 

We know, however, that we've made a lot of decisions that have annoyed various forum members, and this time, we're opening the discussion to the community. Should the Off Topic Board be kept?

 

The staff has discussed this in some detail, and the majority of staff members are against the OTB, and would wish for it's closure, citing the following reasons:

 

- It's one of the only topics on the whole forum. Specifically, on one single page of the topic, a topic of interest - cheese, for example - may only get around three responses before someone else changes the subject. A whole community then loses out on the chance to post their opinion. If each of these subjects had their own thread around TDN, up to 20 people could all have their input; we'd flourish. One major member at the forums alone has over 3,000 posts, but has only ever posted two threads. TDN wants MORE threads, and MORE to discuss. How many subjects are discussed on TDN? You wouldn't need to have three hands to count them ;)

- We want a community that posts on a wide range of topics, in a mature but interesting way! Our rules state that full English must be used, grammar and all. Standards slip on the OTB, and this is then echoed around the entire forum. Post quality slips, and that is not what we want, in any respect.

- "It's the sponge of the forum. It just sucks up all prospective topics and leaves the topic list virtually empty." Why not post more about more topics elsewhere? :)

- It goes too fast. Why not start discussions about the topics in their own threads?

- A staff member mentioned it was "fun". We're all up for fun, but we are ultimately trying to create interesting discussion, where everyone is welcome. The OTB doesn't advocate that - the shoutbox, and IM clients such as AIM and MSN are in place for this sort of reason. Yeah, we want you to get to know each other, but why not talk on an instant messenger and actually discuss real topics on TDN?

- If a guest looks around the forum and sees that the only topic that's ever active is the OTB, they're likely not to join. It's not very organised nor helpful. Daunting, even.

- Ian, the website's general manager, has the final say, and for the reasons cited, is also against it. The identities of other staff members are private ;)

- One member mentioned, regarding the board, that "everyone uses it to get posts". The only benefit to gaining posts is the Fantastic Member usergroup, and if you're only a Fantastic Member because you spammed and posted offtopic posts everywhere, you're hardly Fantastic, are you? "It's not about your post count, but making your posts count."

- "It's like a chatroom", one member also mentioned. That's totally against the purpose of the forum; the purpose is to not post random waffling, but to discuss various topics, with interest and some sort of passion, you know? It's post farming.

 

Generally, the above is the opinion of the staff. However, we realise it's a pillar of TDN, and just like the personal picture and debates furores, we realise it's a touchy subject. It's a founding pillar of the site, and we want your opinions on what should happen. What are your opinions? Read the above and try to bring across a point of agreement or disagreement, so that we can make a decision.

 

Please note, however, that if we feel that the discussion isn't going in a successful manner, we will go ahead with a staff vote and the winning option will be acted upon.

 

Please discuss, but remembering the view of the staff ;)

[Meeptroid]

Although many may enjoy the Off Topic Board, I'm beginning to understand what you are saying Samuel. To be honest, I haven't seen many threads being created for a while now. (Not to mention I'm probably the one you are mentioning when you talk about a member with over 3,000 posts and only made two threads... :P) I'm sure that many members can appreciate and enjoy The DailyNeopets Forum without the Off Topic Board. It's more of a cheating device for new members to become a Fantastic Member and it does become spammy. Since the topic on the board changes a ton, I agree with you that not many people will have a chance to state their opinion. Despite that a lot of us have grown to the Off Topic Board, maybe it would be good for a change to delete it.

[Zac]

I, for one, are against deleting it because that is one place that seems more friendly and such. If you want to do something about it maybe you could try a more strict moderation technique or some way to control the spamming without deleting it. Or you could make it so that the posts on the OTB do not caout t your overall posts, like the word games forum, just a suggestion ;)

[Meeptroid]

True, Zac. I'm kind of neutral about this situation at the moment. The Off Topic Board does have it's pros and cons. Do to this thread, It seems that the staff can't do much with the board and they dislike having it around.

[Zac]

I am neutralish....I don't want to see the OTB deleted but I don't want the spamming and such to keep going on....

Would the staff be interested in a compromise? What if the Off-Topic Board was moved to the Word Games section? Then the *spammy* posts wouldn't be counted and it would calm down a little bit...

[Meeptroid]

Maybe that "could" work, Zac. I'd hate to see the Off Topic Board go, but if it's really necessary and majority rules the board to be deleted, well...

[Samuel]

It's not so much the post counts, that's fine; it's the fact that members dont discuss much, which is our purpose here, and subjects move so fast when they could be discussed in great detail, in a fun way, with their own threads. The forum would flourish, we'd have more members, we'd have more posts, we'd be much better a community.

 

Also, the spammy style that is posted by pretty much half the board is echoed around the forums; they think it's okay on the OTB and post in the same style elsewhere.

 

And if you want a real friendly technique, adding humour into a discussion is great - the mood is lightened - so the off topic board isnt the only place for humour. And, similarly, isn't that mroe the place for the shoutbox and IM?

[Mike.]

I've seen "Spam" subforums on other sites and they include Word Games, and other stuff. We could put the Off-Topic there I suppose.

 

But I still hate it. That wouldn't solve the problem of not having enough topics though, since everyone would just move to the new place.

[Matt]

2 people and a domination of staff members. Things are kept sociable here! *cough*...

 

While prospective members might have a quick glance over the "View New Posts" link at the top and see many different conversations all going on at the same time in which they can find one they can relate to and latch on, or they might just see a few drabby old topics and the dominating "Off Topic Board", which gives no real evidence on what the current "topic" is.

 

That's how I see this, anyway.

[Izzy ♥]

A topic of interest - cheese, for example - may only get around three responses before someone else changes the subject

This I've got to agree with - often when I read back over the posts that I missed in the OTB I see topics that I would have liked to comment on, but the disscussion is always over. It would be nice to see these topics in their own threads so they were still active when I came online :)

 

Personally, I'm all for moving the OTB to the Word Games forum. I think that most people would post their ideas in new topics then anyway, becuase otherwise their post count wouldn't rise - and as you're said, thats what people have been using the OTB for.

[Parshy]

i see where you are coming from but if we didn't have the OTB we would There would be a massive overflow of spammy topics that might not last very long and would result in a MASSIVE ammount of closed topic violateing the 14 day rlue

[Guest Lightning Strike]

Well, let me try to prove my reasons:

 

First, I have read and totally agree with Samuel's reasons. The OTB goes too fast, it does indeed seem like a chatroom, because many topics are discussed at the same time and changed very frequently. It also is a place for easy ranking up of post counts, which goes against the TDN Forum rules. I consider this to be, literally, cheating.

 

It also presents itself currently at the most active topic on TDN. Well, that doesn't give a very good reputation. Take those posts, subtract them from the overall posts, and you get the result. Around 65k posts. Not much, considering it represents around 30% of the total posts. IN 1 TOPIC! The most popular topic on TDN goes against the rules?! Not that appealing. At least to me.

 

TDN is a great community, although the posters are irregularly distributed. I mean, there are a lot of post in the Random Chit Chat forum, but, on the contrary, the Computer Speak, Coding, Art, etc. are nearly "topicless". Why? Because, partly, of the OTB. It attracts more members, see, as it's an "easy" way of getting to Fantastic Member. As those other topics have spam rules, you have to abide by the topic and also not go off topic or spam.

 

Resuming, I think the OTB should be closed.

[Awesome_Paul]

I think i am very neutral on this topic, mainly because i like/dislike the OTB

 

I think what is good is that the OTB is a great place to chat, make friends etc (even though that could be done on IM) but it is also for all newbies who want to make friends because lets face it, a new person joins and they ask for your msn/yahoo/AOL, you wouldn't really give them it because they're still new, so the OTB is also a great place to earn the trust of others.

 

But Like said before discussions always go fast, as soon as one is introduced, 5 replies and a different person introduces another topic, which can be annoying (everytime i go back to flick through what i was off for, i always see a topic which i could have liked to take part in), and also said before, the Off topic board can be used to cheating posts, whan looking back to the old forums, at teh post count it mainly said, "##% posts in Random Chit Chat" which usually meant the OTB normally.

 

This board has heard many solutions such as, Delete, Move to Word games.

 

But how about, we leave it there but call it something else because quite frankly the 'Off Topic Board' may sound to the new people, 'the spam board' which has no rules and anything can be took place there. So we could call it something less Spammy and introduced rules just for that board, like a topic must be discussed for __ rpelies before it coyuld be changed etc.

[Parshy]

How about all topic have to stay for a day before the topic could be changed?

[webpixie]

i completly agree with moving it to word games so the spaming for post counts would stop. you could also make specil rules for it or encourage people more often to make spin off threads from it when there is a topic that could be talked more indepth or that allot of people are intrested in, especilly so if its somthing that they really wish to comment on themselves.

 

if you worried more about rule breaking you can always do what you did on the debate fourm and have a single person or 2 mod the thread and crack down more on the rule breaking until it weeds out and stops or atleast comes to a minimum.

 

personally i like the OTB for topics that are too small or stupid to designate a whole thread to it, or ask a quick opinuion that you dont want a whole disscusion about.

 

i would be more inclined to use the shoutbox for small things if the option of haveing it on every page of the fourms like it was the first few minutes of install, was put back(the option box for it is still in the shoutbox prefrances) otherwise i have to have a seprate window or tab open to see if anything new has happened(again i multi task) where if its on the OTB i see when i refresh my page for new posts.

[Parshy]

Then the Job would go to Ann

[webpixie]

no necisarily, she is busy as is, would be easier to pick one of those members that is trustworthy and usues the fourms allot. then if it gets under control they job can be taken away as needed

[Anime]

I'm really not that busy. I just complain. xD

 

I'm going to stay out of this, I all ready stated my case on the staff chat, and I'd probably just make a mess here. >.<

[Awesome_Paul]

thats true, animes job is content staff

 

so being a mod for the off topic job,

mod for the overall forum

and writing articles

be too much to handle

 

I think what webpixie means is to have 1 mod just for that one board

[webpixie]

i do think a rule should be made that *fourth word* dosn't count as words to make a post... those get anouying..

[Parshy]

yea that is kinda annoying

[Superfly]

The OTB, under review eh? First off, I would like to say that probably everyone here, understands where the staff is coming from, and for the most part agree, that the OTB can get a little spammy, I am sure of the fact that I have spammed it, many times before, probably for post count. When I read this, I was shocked, but after calming down, and thinking through this locigly, I have come upon the following things.

 

Spam (staffs issue with the OTB) - Ahhh, this board is extremely spammy and you are correct, the rules state no spam, but why has the staff allowed spam on the OTB? I agree, that spam shouldn't be taken lightly and the OTB is not a place to let the rules slip a little. Per this reason, I believe the OTB should be deleted. (DON'T STOP READING THERE, that was only one of my reasons, but there are more that come across a different way)

 

Getting to know the members. - This is one of the main reasons, that I think the OTB should stay. Without the OTB I don't think I would've come to know as many of the members that I know today. I now new members have a newbie forum, but most of the time, it's just to welcome them, personally I feel that I will get yelled at if I try and make conversation with new members on their new forums, why? I don't really know why, but I feel it's a forum for welcoming members, and welcoming members only. (please correct me if I'm wrong) I also personally believe that if we were allowed to chat with new members, discuss some things they like or common interests, it would be more benifical to the forums and new members would be more likely to say. Per this reason, I believe the OTB should stay. (DON'T STOP READING THERE, that was only one of my reasons, but there are more that come across a different way)

 

OTB Random Subjects that Change after 5 posts - Isn't that what kids like to do best? (I know there are adults on here, but for the most part, we are colleges and high school students) Anyway my point is that we enjoy the fact that we can chat about "cheese" (using your example) for five minutes and then the next minute be chatting about the newest avatar, or whatever. Yes, it is easy to get lost, and you tend to miss a lot if you leave, but don't worry about catching up, it isn't worth it, just jump right on in. For the most part, we don't enjoy talking about subjects in GREAT DETAIL, we chat about our opinions and move on. Per this reason, I believe the OTB should stay, but be moved.(DON'T STOP READING THERE, that was only one of my reasons, but there are more that come across a different way)

 

Creating a new topic for each subject - While this seems like a good idea, here are the flaws that I thought of. This would put so much more work on the mods, I mean, they now have to click and read a whole new topic to make sure that everything is alright. And no offense to the mods, but this forum doesn't have a mod on it 24/7 and it would be extremely difficult to hire new mods to cover the whole worlds timezone, as there isn't even well-known members on the forums that cover the worlds timezones. While the current staff has it down pretty well, how many of the staff actually checks the OTB for spam/bad launguage (becides Anime, when she is on) I would go to say that most of the staff probably NEVER even bothers to look at it, and if they did look at it, why not post while you are there. Anyway, I'm sure that is something else to discuss. If a topic was to be created about cheese, and say the topic started didn't want to go into details, they just wanted to know what you thought about cheese, it might get 3 posts, and die with in 24 hours of creation, do you really want more dead topics? Per this reason, I believe the OTB should stay, to minimize all the random spammy topics being created, but be moved. (DON'T STOP READING THERE, that was only one of my reasons, but there are more that come across a different way)

 

The FM board - As much as I hate to bring this up, it must be done I believe. I know this isn't the board of discussion, but in all actuality isn't the FM board, just another OTB, but restricted to FM's only? If the OTB has to be moved, or deleted, I think that it would almost only be fair the rest of the members to move or delete the FM board. Unless one of the new benifits of a FM is you get to talk on a random board about random things, that sometimes don't last that many posts aswell. Sorry FM's, don't get mad at me, it had to be said. Per the reason, I believe the OTB should stay, or be moved.

 

So I think I would have to conclude that the OTB should be moved, so that posts don't count, and I'm sure that the staff will see, it still still flourish even though posts will not count.

 

 

EDIT: I would like to 2nd webpixe's idea for a Off-Topic Board moderator. This moderator, would have to be someone who posts all the time on the OTB, and knows the rules very well. While the OTB couldn't just be covered by this one person, it would put the regular staff at ease a little, knowing they don't have to catch EVERY SINGLE post. Dunnno, good idea though.

[Parshy]

That is some good strong Proof that the OTB should stay

(one of the reasons was mine!)

[Zac]

Ah, nice solid defense TJ, good job! *shakes hand*

 

You know, I agree with 90% of what you just posted!

[Parshy]

i now think it should be a subfourm on the word games topic.