TNTs Decision to Convert Darigan Pets and Plushie Pets...

[lilshadowdweller]

I know I'm chatting about this much too late. It's been years since TNT first dropped the bomb shell on us and altered every single pet. I know why they did it. They gave us all the ability to add our own personalities to our pets by placing them all in one easy pose.

 

Some colours they decide to keep *mostly* they same. Mutants and Maraquans were left mostly untouched, aside from losing some great action poses. They cannot be customized as most pets because TNT couldn't figure out to get them in the standard pose.

 

Royal really took quite a beaten. However, I'm not complaining about this choice because I understand. Royal pets offered rare clothing and a good chance to customize their pet. Yes, they would lose their neat poses, but they would still look good and be sought after.

 

But there are still two species that I believed were JUST as different as Mutant and Maraquans; namely, Plushie and Darigan.

 

Now with the release of the 8-bit brush (where obviously those pets, like the Mutants and Maraquan, cannot be customized as much), it sort of adds an insult that they decided to completely alter these painted pets.

 

Take a look at the old Darigan poses, you cannot tell me each one was highly unique and in some respect, just like a Mutant:

 

http://www.neopets.c...l/minions.phtml

 

But look what they reduced some of the pets ones to:

 

BECAME =

 

There was a huge difference between this Aisha and the standard pose. The normal ears. The jagging spear like look of the top ears, the snark. The Darigan Aisha, possibly one of the best Darigan pets, was converted into a mere kitten. With seldom any similarities.

 

The Pteri, another popular and highly different from standard option was reduced to drastically and seemingly flattened!

 

=

 

Where are it's mighty wings? Why does it not strike fear into my hear?

 

 

=

 

This techno was actually a posed used from their plots (except it was yellow). I appreciate they maintained the old designs, it added a sense of realisim. He was convining. He was read to get us. Now it looks like he wants to punch us in the face. xD

 

Now, I could go on forever about how horrible their new stances are. I have many more I can comment on, but you can judge for yourself. But my point is: I think TNT made a big mistake in choosing to standarized the Darigan pets.

 

I don't understand why they maintained the Mutants and the 8-Bit, but failed horridly with the Darigan. -_- In some cases, some of them look way too friendly, I'm referring to the ones which never existed before customization, but existed after:

 

"Aw, want a hug?"

 

Some got better in my opinion however. So I'm not totally condeming TNT.

 

Take the Draik. Look, I'm not saying it wasn't awesome and evil looking, and I think the artist was trying to make a unique point of how opposite Darigan pets were supposed to be originally. It had no wings as sly as it was. But it's new form sort of took some of the good old elements and applied it to the new one:

"I can FLY! Whoopie!"

 

But I'm sure you understand my point. Darigan should have been left as was.

 

 

Now let's move on to Plushie. Plushies are still considered highly desirable. But honestly, I'm not sure why anymore...

 

 

"I look just like a plushie and I'm so cute and huggable!"

 

Just LOOK how much effort the artists put into these Plushies pets! They LOOK like Plushies with MAJOR personality.

 

Now look at what this lovely Plushie has been reduced to:

"I had brain surgery. They had to dissect my whole head and legs."

 

Ick. I'd prefer the old one over putting clothes on it any old day!

 

 

Or the Buzz; One of my Personal favourites:

 

= Hissi: =

 

With TNT openly making unique paint brushes, It urks me that they (in my opinion) destroyed some great/unique pets. Anyway, I could go on and give you these points forever. But it'll take way too much time and space.

 

So, what about you guys? Do you agree with TNT's decision making in altering the Plushies and Darigan? Was there another colour you were unhappy about? Am I being too nit picky?

 

And yes, I know, they left the colour as is if it was before customization...but who cares? Now all of these great pets have to come out look only slightly like they did. -_-

[Sithis]

I think the Unconverted Paint Brush should be made and sold at the Hidden Tower for 500mil each. Deflating the economy + making everyone happy = Win for TNT and less TNT haters.

[Anime]

Mutant and Maraquan pets have non-standard poses because they have non-standard appendages for their species. 8-bit pets have non-standard poses because the entire point of being 8-bit is to be flat, viewed from one side on the screen. Baby, while we're on the topic of non-standard, has this issue due to size. And even then, all 4 of these species have poses as close to the standard as TNT could manage while taking into consideration that they're drastically different from a pet with a more basic color.

 

As for your list of pets: Yes, the old poses are more menacing/cuter/cooler. But a lot of the art is also horribly outdated. Those colors would have been due for an art update regardless of customization. They had just redone the art for the entire Jubjub species when they finished all of the current poses and went live with them. Bit of a waste of time for the people drawing the Jubjubs, really, but the fact remains that the art was going to be updated in one way or another at some point. That's just how things work.

 

Yes, those colors got hit pretty hard when it came to the update, but that was less because TNT decided to attack those specific pets, and more because those pets no longer matched the art style of the site and current pets. They decided that customization was the way to go (and I haven't heard complaints about it since it went live, so I think most people enjoy it), and the art and pet poses had to be updated to make it possible. Things were lost (like unique poses and emotions), and things were gained (the ability to make your pet 100% unique, numerous items gaining an actual use). That's just the way things work.

 

Also, TNT is very firm on the fact that they are not going to make UC Neopets avalible again. A few Editorial responses on the topic:

 

Now that you've successfully tackled Draik / Krawk inflation, what are your plans for the future regarding unconverted Neopets? Would you ever invent something like an unconverted Lab Ray zap, a Random Event that turns Neopets unconverted, or give Neopets an option to be UC or converted to suit owners' taste? Please remove my username. ~username removed

There are no plans for unconverted Neopets. They are relics left over from the past, and not something we are giving any consideration to in the future. While many players seem to think of them as something like a rare paint brush colour, we consider them to be more like an out of date operating system: great back in the day, but no longer supported.

(Issue 511)

 

Back in Ye Olden Days, some Neopets got "evolved" into new versions - Fuzio to Kyrii, Tigren to Acara, etc. Although some old Neopets would really throw a wrench into the customisation process (*cough*Fleye*cough*), do you ever consider resurrecting "old" Neopets as "new" Neopets? (I do miss Tatsus...) ~toholdher

We consider them art updates, not evolution. And no, we haven't actually considered making old versions into new Neopets, much like we aren't considering making unconverted Neopets available again.

(Issue 513)

 

Note the phrases "art updates" and "out of date".

[Sithis]

I know and I have seen their reasoning time and time again... another thing they have been stressing is how inflated the economy has become. It would be a tool for deflation as well as pleasing many players all at the same time.

[Kaana]

When I saw the title, I thought TNT had forced converted all Darigan and Plushie pets, and my first reaction was something along the lines of "Finally!" - not because I have major issue with all UC pets in and of themselves, but because I am sick and tired of people whining about this UC and that UC and ohgodwhycouldn'tthemhavejustleftthemlikethattheyweresomuchbetter. Please people.

 

I actually think some of these pets look just as good, if not better converted. I will take that converted buzz and hissi you showed us, please. I think they look adorable, and much more like a pet with a personality now then before. As far as darigan goes, I agree they appeared to have more personality pre-conversion. But isn't that what developing a story is for? Drawing your own art or asking for art in that lithe, dangerous style? You could say people were just as unhappy when they evolved the older pets mentioned the above editorial - but it happened, and now we have new, different pets and overall people are happier.

 

(TNT really need to update the old paintbrush combo pages...)

[Sithis]

Which pages?

 

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[lilshadowdweller]

As for your list of pets: Yes, the old poses are more menacing/cuter/cooler. But a lot of the art is also horribly outdated. Those colors would have been due for an art update regardless of customization. They had just redone the art for the entire Jubjub species when they finished all of the current poses and went live with them. Bit of a waste of time for the people drawing the Jubjubs, really, but the fact remains that the art was going to be updated in one way or another at some point. That's just how things work.

 

I need to point something clearly out:

 

I never made this argument to against customization. I merely brought up some pets which I thought didn't need to be converted.

 

Updated, yes. But this drastically? You could make your argument again and again on how things would have been updated, had they not chosen to convert certain species, I strongly doubt their updated versions would have been something to complain about -- regardless of how "outdated" the artwork had been. In many circumstances, species were changed without the entire colour altering.

 

Yes, those colors got hit pretty hard when it came to the update, but that was less because TNT decided to attack those specific pets, and more because those pets no longer matched the art style of the site and current pets. They decided that customization was the way to go (and I haven't heard complaints about it since it went live, so I think most people enjoy it), and the art and pet poses had to be updated to make it possible. Things were lost (like unique poses and emotions), and things were gained (the ability to make your pet 100% unique, numerous items gaining an actual use). That's just the way things work.

 

I noticed after conversion that many old users I had known have no sense left the site. Would it not make sense users would be "happy" with customization -- if that was mostly all they knew? And yes, many old time users (myself included) remained on this website, but when the changes took places, there wasn't this much agreement with the issue. It would make sense after so many years that many would be in pure agreement. Again, I'm not comprehending why you bringing customization as the ultimate issue since this was not the purpose of this thread.

 

 

"That's just the way things work."

 

Thank you, you've said this sentence twice already. I was under the impression a debate chat was to challenge opinions and learn new things. I didn't think because you simply stated "that's just how things work" that meant my argument was null and void? I get the impression that this topic hits some sort of sore spot with you. Possibly because you've heard something similar many times. I thank you for your valid points and contribution to the debate but I definitely sense your hostility.

 

 

When I saw the title, I thought TNT had forced converted all Darigan and Plushie pets, and my first reaction was something along the lines of "Finally!" - not because I have major issue with all UC pets in and of themselves, but because I am sick and tired of people whining about this UC and that UC and ohgodwhycouldn'tthemhavejustleftthemlikethattheyweresomuchbetter. Please people.

 

Haha, no Kana, I think you'd hear way more complaints if they did that. ;) Trust me. At least TNT gave the option to allow people unconverted pets. Better then nothing at all!

 

I will take that converted buzz and hissi you showed us, please.

 

Your opinion. I disagree, probably because I love the Buzz's big pleading eyes? :) It's neat to dress them up though and if you think about it, dolls normally need to be dressed up regardless.

 

s far as darigan goes, I agree they appeared to have more personality pre-conversion. But isn't that what developing a story is for? Drawing your own art or asking for art in that lithe, dangerous style? You could say people were just as unhappy when they evolved the older pets mentioned the above editorial - but it happened, and now we have new, different pets and overall people are happier.

 

Again, this isn't an argument against customization. If you head over to my account, you'll notice that BECAUSE of the conversion process, I was able to make a new dream pet: A combination of Halloween and Darigan. (ChristelleFairy). I embraced it. (Also, I didn't think pre-converted Gelert looked much different from the new one.)

 

Had she been left the old style, I wouldn't have been able to give her a brand new cape. :)

[Anime]

I brought up customization because it is directly linked to and fully responsible for the drastic changes most pets saw when it went live. Had TNT not implimented customization, the changes you list above may not have been as drastic, or they may have changed in entirely different ways.

 

The Jubjub is the only example I have to work with, but it should suffice. The Coconut Jubjub is the only I could find a satisfactory image of from the art it had when I first joined Neo 6 years ago. The older art has been overwritten by the current files, and no longer exists on the site at all.

 

->

 

The Coco Jubjub became a Jubjub that looks like a coconut, instead of a coconut with feet. (I should note that Coconut was one of only three colors that survived that first art update with the feet-in-front-of-face look intact) This qualifies as a loss of defining features, which I belive is what you were pointing our in your first post.

 

Is it as drastic as some of the ones you listed? No. But is IS on par with what happened to a lot of pets when they were converted. The Plushie Acara, for instance, or Sponge pets in general.

 

What I was trying to say (and apparently I missed my mark) is that those changes were going to happen. No ifs ands or buts about it. We may have retained some sinister smiles and some spikes, but in the end, a lot would be lost for the sake of uniformity. And when it comes right down to it, uniformity across the species is more aesthetically pleasing than some 40-odd totally unique colors that bear only a passing resemblence to each other. And BECAUSE uniformity looks better, that is what TNT, as a business, is going to go for when updating.

 

The current fanbase enjoys and uses customization. Yes people left, but people leave Neo every day for a lot of reasons. We lose people because they don't like the way a plot has gone, or they're annoyed that a new color didn't turn out how they wanted it to (I know someone personally who did that...). Heck, I'm willing to bet we lost a lot more to the layout change than we did to customization. xD There are still a large number of active users that were active before and remember pre-customization days. The vast majority just got used to it, and there was a large outcry for it for a very long time before it came about.

 

I did not mean to say "that's the way things work" twice. It just sort of happened. I do not have a "sore spot" about this topic, nor am I hostile towards it. If anything, this topic in particular isn't brought up often. It's... never brought up, really. Most of the time people complain about the filters.

[lilshadowdweller]

I brought up customization because it is directly linked to and fully responsible for the drastic changes most pets saw when it went live. Had TNT not implimented customization, the changes you list above may not have been as drastic, or they may have changed in entirely different ways.

 

Of course, which is why I had stated that the updated artwork may have been different -- yes, it's a clean/nice update, by all means, but without the customization process, it would probably have just been advanced to work with the older artwork. Now, I'm NOT saying customization was a bad thing, and like some users have said, some prefer the new looks of the pets. (Like my preferance towards the new Darigan Draik.) And I understand that the new colours still fit in nicely with the new look/graphic style. But I (just myself) would have preferred with some (not all) of the pets maintaing or at least having more of their old artwork form. I do not demand it or expect it however. I just wanted to see what other users thought in regards to it. :)

 

 

The Coco Jubjub became a Jubjub that looks like a coconut, instead of a coconut with feet. (I should note that Coconut was one of only three colors that survived that first art update with the feet-in-front-of-face look intact) This qualifies as a loss of defining features, which I belive is what you were pointing our in your first post.

 

You are correct, it's a good example. I also realize some of those original pets actually were suited to a constant form. (ie; as you mentioned, before, all JubJubs had their feet in front of their faces).

 

What I was trying to say (and apparently I missed my mark) is that those changes were going to happen. No ifs ands or buts about it. We may have retained some sinister smiles and some spikes, but in the end, a lot would be lost for the sake of uniformity. And when it comes right down to it, uniformity across the species is more aesthetically pleasing than some 40-odd totally unique colors that bear only a passing resemblence to each other. And BECAUSE uniformity looks better, that is what TNT, as a business, is going to go for when updating.

 

I understand that there was never any other option, really.

 

But there were some "ifs" "ands" "buts".

 

Now, you've made some clear points regarding this:

 

Mutant and Maraquan pets have non-standard poses because they have non-standard appendages for their species. 8-bit pets have non-standard poses because the entire point of being 8-bit is to be flat, viewed from one side on the screen. Baby, while we're on the topic of non-standard, has this issue due to size.]

 

And you were correct to state that TNT attempted to standarized even the Maraquan and Mutant. My only argument was the uniqueness of the certain species -- but your statement is that it made more sense for the Darigan to be standarized. On a business scale, it does look cleaner and more organized. Still doesn't disregard that they could have maintained the Darigan species a bit more, since they are in some manner Mutants themselves.

 

But why make the 8-Bit then? Why not stick to the standard model entirely and not create more pets with unusual characteristics?

 

 

The current fanbase enjoys and uses customization. Yes people left, but people leave Neo every day for a lot of reasons. We lose people because they don't like the way a plot has gone, or they're annoyed that a new color didn't turn out how they wanted it to (I know someone personally who did that...). Heck, I'm willing to bet we lost a lot more to the layout change than we did to customization. xD

 

From what I recall, (was it in a past editoral?) Neopets was originally intended to be more customized. (They had planned for the pets to wear clothing, ect.)

And perhaps we did lose some to the layout changes. I've been around for a very long time as I'm sure you have. In my personal case, the customization was a big blow, probably because we really weren't given prior warning. And yes, like yourself, I know many people who left for various reasons.

 

I did not mean to say "that's the way things work" twice. It just sort of happened. I do not have a "sore spot" about this topic, nor am I hostile towards it. If anything, this topic in particular isn't brought up often. It's... never brought up, really. Most of the time people complain about the filters.

 

I definitely noticed it and thought stating it twice was a bit too much. xD Some users feel that it's been complained about frequently (well, it was), so I thought perhaps you were wanting drastically to stop it. Please understand that I do not expect anything to change in the slightest and I'm not intending to start any sort of...I don't know, revolution? Essentially, I have no agenda against customization. I am happy with your explanation for WHY Maraquan and Mutant were maintained.

[Nataluna]

i admit i personally miss some of the older pets/poses, but as TNT expands the lack of support for the old art would have been an issue, for example if they bought out a new project (because i can't think of any, lets say something like the battledome) which required new poses, i don't see them getting artists to draw twice as much art :P

 

plus the customisation thing makes them alot of money. :P

 

its one of those things which no-one would have been 100% happy about, if they kept the old poses, some people would have resented not being able to customise their pets, if they bought it back, then they upset the people who do like the new art and so on. if they bought both back, the artists would have less time to devote to new art etc..

 

i really miss the plushie cybunny though, i gifted a cybunny morphing potion to a friend recently (has a cybunny gallery) and she was soo excited, until she went to review all the poses and colors, and we both agreed they weren't as cute as before...

[lilshadowdweller]

i admit i personally miss some of the older pets/poses, but as TNT expands the lack of support for the old art would have been an issue, for example if they bought out a new project (because i can't think of any, lets say something like the battledome) which required new poses, i don't see them getting artists to draw twice as much art

 

It certainly made the art work a lot easier on their artists. I even see them trying to apply that same old uniqueness to the new pets. Kudos to them, really!

 

plus the customisation thing makes them alot of money.

 

And realistically, just like it's been said by Anime, they are a business. The new formula helped to expand their sales and it worked. :P

 

its one of those things which no-one would have been 100% happy about, if they kept the old poses, some people would have resented not being able to customise their pets, if they bought it back, then they upset the people who do like the new art and so on. if they bought both back, the artists would have less time to devote to new art etc..

 

For sure! Well, I wouldn't anticipate them trying to keep the old poses. Even some of there the pets that they converted regardless (Royal Lupe) were bad choices. (I'm referring to pets which had no other option but their old poses looked significantly different). xD But they gave users the option to keep the original Female Royal Lupe. @_@ Sometimes, I don't understand them in that regard -- I thought the Male Royal Lupe had probably just as many differences as the female. :P

 

i really miss the plushie cybunny though, i gifted a cybunny morphing potion to a friend recently (has a cybunny gallery) and she was soo excited, until she went to review all the poses and colors, and we both agreed they weren't as cute as before...

 

That was incredibly kind of you! So is she making the Cybunny then though? She may be lucky, you may come across an UC one. Maybe. If someone is willing to let it go. ;)

[GlitteryCupcake]

I'm totally with you on the plushie and darigan pets, but I was most disappointed when they changed the grey pets. I remember them looking soo sad and depressed, which made them very different! Now they look melancholy....at most.

[Nataluna]

at the moment she's just going to keep it for her gallery. which is a bit of a shame because i had hoped it to be this awesome present, but oh well.

 

i'm not aware (although i don't follow the craziness that is UC pet trading) if there were any cybunny colours that weren't converted?

 

i converted my faerie moehog when i can back without realising how much in demand UC pets are.. i didn't even know what UC was.. then looked it up and had a *headslap!* moment :P

_{(the new plushie cybunny looks like a valentines color not a plushie! :S)}

[annikarose]

I understand people getting upset at people for complaining about UCs all the time, but that's because it really disgruntled A LOT of people. I also understand that it would be hard to have a support network for unconverted pets, which is why, as much as I would love it, an UC PB probably isn't practical.

 

HOWEVER, I think it was pretty cruel for TNT to spring the conversion without informing anybody first. They would have been inundated with complaints, sure, but how is that any different from usual? xp Plus, I think users would have been much, MUCH more on board if they could have helped in the decision-making process, voting on new art, weighing in on which ones should be customizable, etc. Maybe this wouldn't have been practical, but with so many people upset about the conversion, I think TNT should be paying attention to that I guess.

 

Darigan pets are pretty much a different species, and they don't seem the type to wear clothes with me. Same thing with plushies, they don't need clothes!