Abortion.

[April]

Opponents of abortion continue to campaign across the country with the “personhood” proposal intended to prompt a legal challenge aimed at overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that established a legal right to abortion.

 

Personhood USA, the leader behind the movement, wants states like Florida, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Nevada, Colorado and California to put “personhood” initiatives on 2012 ballots. The extremely controversial issue essentially questions at what point of conception is the being considered a human and the answer to that question could eventually challenge abortion and birth control.

 

 

I found this on another site I'm on. I think that it raises more questions.

 

 

 

Why I think abortion should be legal:

 

Parents may not always be ready for children and the child would suffer.

A woman could be raped.

A woman may be an alcoholic or in an abusive relationship.

 

If Abortion was made illegal then there could be woman and their boyfriends trying to have their own home abortion. Do you know how dangerous this could be?

 

 

Why have a child if situations aren't ideal? Is it fair to the child? No.

 

And yes you can argue "put it up for adoption" but this is a weak argument and we all know it. There are too many children in foster care and orphanages as it is.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

It's an issue where there are many acceptable answers, but there's no "right" answer. No matter what we do, there's unfortunately something very wrong that will happen.

 

*Ban abortion completely? Not okay. We are overpopulated as is, and kids who otherwise would have been aborted grow up to be hated and far too often abused. A child should never be a punishment to a parent, because inevitably the innocent child is the one punished. People say that the innocent child is punished by being murdered--I'm here to tell you that there are fates worse than death.

 

*Ban abortion except in cases where the mother will die? See above. Except in cases where the mother was raped? See above.

 

*Allow abortion to anyone who wants it? Exactly as you said--if people know they can get abortions easily, what's going to stop them from unsafe actions?

 

These are the legal consequences. There's a difference between moral beliefs and legal beliefs. In my opinion, abortion is a horrible thing that nobody should want. Women and men should do everything they can not to get pregnant. If you're in a long-term relationship, women, you should probably be on the pill. If it's casual, always use a condom--EVEN IF THE WOMAN CLAIMS SHE'S ON THE PILL. If you did not do everything you can to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, you HAVE done something morally shameful, and the very short life of a fetus is cut short by your actions.

 

Beyond that, things happen. If you used protection but it didn't work, I say abortion is the way to go to prevent a lot of pain on both sides. (Obviously, it's still up to you...) If you got raped, there was nothing you COULD do. If you fully intended to carry the child to term but it turns out you can't...you did what you thought was going to work, and you're not to blame.

 

Legally, though, based on my moral belief, the only option is to have abortion completely legal for anyone who wants it. If we have any of the spectrum ideas, people WILL lie. Men could be falsely accused of rape. There's no way to prove that two people DID use protection. So this is the only option for me--to have it completely legal.

 

Along with that, though, I think sex ed classes should be taught to EVERYONE without any of that abstinence-only stuff. And...while this is horrible to do to anyone who might need an abortion someday...people need to understand that abortion is not easy. It's surgery. It's painful and uncomfortable and embarrassing to the mother. It should not just be another casual option for birth control--it should be a last resort only.

[Spirited Away]

Since I am Roman Catholic I am 100 PERCENT AGAINST ABORTION. If you don't want to have a baby and preventing it is easy. Birth Control pills. Abortion is taking life well an unborn child.

[Sweetdang]

I think that actually a very very very very small percentage of people in this world actually agree with the idea of abortion, but most of them are just forced into it. Teen pregnancy is stupid - why did you have sex in the first place? - but I must say that i really respect those who keep their children.

 

It's quite unfair to ask me, because I absolutely love children in every size shape form and etc etc etc. But no matter whether you love or hate them, once you take the step, you get pregnant, you're bonded to the child. You cant just throw it away and make it pay for your actions! It's terrible and inhumane.

 

However, for now, I'm focusing on the people who actually really have to abort their children. The ones who, if they don't abort, face like 80% possible risk of both mother and child dying. Those are the people who i really actually feel for. I don't believe in abortion unless its a death or death situation. Basically, thats all. If my kid were abnormal, i would keep it. I know i would. I would weep and cry and deliberate, but I would keep him or her, because i know that even if i tell myself I should let go cause they'll suffer, I'm lying to myself. If they know nothing but what they are, how can they be miserable and how can they suffer? It's just excuses. Most of the reasons for abortion are.

 

But what good will it do to the child if they come into this world, only to be despised and hated by their parents?

 

There are two types of people who abort - those who want to; and those who don't want to but have no choice. While you're talking about those who want to, I'm fearing for those who don't want to. People in general understand what abortion means - murder. It's completely unfair to force someone who loves and wants to keep her child - to commit murder.

 

In the same way, it's completely unfair to the child to force him/her to come into a world where he'll be hated, cursed at, tortured and physically and emotionally hurt.

 

However, I feel that it would also be unfair to never give this child the change to live, eat, see and breathe. It would be unfair to never let this child open his eyes to the world, and with the same eyes, see joy in the blue, blue sky and terror in the black pit of home. I would be unfair to never let this child open his mouth and cry out with pleasure, and open his mouth and shriek from hurt. It would be unfair, to not let the child have the chance to live.

 

There's always two sides to every story, two views to everything. If you think the two views to abortion belong to the Pregnant and the People around her - I have to disagree. I think they belong to the Pregnant and the Child.

 

But we are different people, and do not and can not be who the child is. We can't say that it is RIGHT to abort, and neither can we say that it is WRONG. Only after getting the responses from the two parties, can we decide on the acutal right choice. But that's not possible, is it? It's not possible to tell the child what he won't and will miss, what he won't and will experience.

 

And because we can never consult the second party, we can never say whether abortion itself is right, or wrong. We can never say anything about it, because it's not for us to say. However, because when it DOES become our turn, and we ARE one of the parties, then we can open our mouths, and speak.

 

Abortion isn't right - and neither is it wrong.

 

But it's something that I will never, ever take a step toward, perhaps even if it's a death - death situation. For every 80% chance that both mother and child will die, there is a 20% chance that they won't.

 

So abortion - not something I can say is right or wrong, but something I can say I will never go along with.

[Snakeystew]

Since I am Roman Catholic I am 100 PERCENT AGAINST ABORTION

When one asserts an opinion concerning such subjects, it should be a matter of rational consideration, reflection and understanding. To dismiss all of this simply to say you're against it because a religious authority says so is to deprive yourself of thoughts consideration, to - in effect - just switch off your brain. WHY are you against abortion?

While there could be some form of discussion when rational reasons are given, no such discussion can be had with appeal to irrelevant authority such as church doctrines. Furthermore, just saying you're 100% against it is to either be malicious or to not consider ALL scenarios.

What if, for example, you found out that the would be child had Harlequin ichthyosis and will only go through abject suffering for it's brief existence? In such scenario, abortion is the more moral decision - as emotionally painful as abortion might be. Or what about ectopic pregnancies? Being 100% against you would obviously opt to see both mother and fetus die, to which you could hardly be classified as someone who is 'pro-life'.

My own stance is that abortion is the right of the individual. I have such stance not by appealing to some irrelevant authority but through rational consideration. We must accept body ownership and complete rights of the body we own for if we do not, it means I could happily attach myself to your organs and use them to sustain my own existence and you could do nothing, whether you want me there or not.

Consider, for example, that we've been in a plane crash and one of my organs has been damaged. I attach myself to your organ to ensure my survival. Do you have the right to remove me, even if doing so leads to my death or do you have no right over your own body and hence must put up with me?

The fact is that a fetus inhabits someone elses body. If they don't want it there, on what basis do you demand that they must put up with it? (This is the problem with your appeal to irrelevant authority - it doesn't explain anything). I am pro-life - in that I want life to live and thrive, and pro-choice for reasons explained. The moment you dismiss body ownership, the moment you've just given everyone the right to use you as they see fit.

At the stage most abortions are carried out, the fetus is composed of less cells than there is in a fly and can't feel anything, (just as a point for those who might dare claim that an aborted fetus could possibly suffer at all, let alone in any similar fashion to someone with something like Harlequin ichthyosis).

For what it's worth, again, you can have a reasoned, rational view on these issues but only if you drop the appeal to irrelevant authority and actually use your own brain.

Regards,

[Kaana]

I am a third year public high school student, and I have had no more than a term of sex ed this year, two terms since the start of high school. That's twice a week for ten weeks, twenty lessons, take away two days for sicknesses, on average, and another two for non-sex ed excursions, also on average, that's sixteen lessons per 1.5 years that teachers are expected to fill students in on all areas of sex ed. Admittedly, I am in a program that means my schedule is slightly more fixed than other students, but from what I have heard, there is only one term per year of compulsory sex ed.

 

Abortion is taught as an easy, responsible method to get rid of a baby. On one hand, from a lot of points of view it makes sense to make it seem like an attractive option for teenage girls - preggers? Just pop down to your local abortion clinic and no harm done! - it'll keep possible teenage mums in school instead of having to go to increasingly regular doctor's appointments - not to mention the high risk of dropping out - , it means the government has to provide for one less child and it gives parents peace of mind that, heaven forbid their little angel gets knocked up! they don't have to face awkward questions.

 

However, this method completely ignores the psychological, social and physical effects that abortion can have on a mother. Quite literally, whenever abortion was mentioned in the classroom, my teacher would talk about it for a while, and then tack on the end: "However, remember that abortion can have severe physical and emotional effects on the mother" and it was always left at that. Of course we were also taught about birth control, but they were marketed poorly in comparison to abortion.

 

In my opinion, abortion should be the choice of the mother. She is the one who will have to carry it to full term, she is the one who should ultimately decide what to do with the child once it is born. If a farmer grows a crop, shouldn't he decide if he wants to sell it, keep it or eat it? (Not that I'm suggesting that one should sell or eat one's child... guess the analogy got away from me for a bit there.) If she knows the child will have a disability, and that its short lifespan will most likely be completely spent in pain, it should be her choice as to whether or not she brings it into this world. Miracles happen, after all.

 

Of course, you'll notice my heavy use of "should". In a perfect world, the mother would have complete control over all these situations, and be able to think for herself without any influences or forced actions from family, friends or father. She "should" have access to an abortion clinic, wherever she may be. Oddly enough, we do not live in a perfect world.

 

Abortion is highly emotional. So is having a baby. The most important thing, to me, is to always give people the choice, and to give them hard facts about exactly what's going on. It's not about right or wrong for everyone. It's about right or wrong for the individual. Individual.

 

And in response to April - from what I hear, for every person who uses abortion as protection, there are many more who thank their god that there are abortion clinics available for if an accident happens.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Abortion is taught as an easy, responsible method to get rid of a baby. On one hand, from a lot of points of view it makes sense to make it seem like an attractive option for teenage girls - preggers? Just pop down to your local abortion clinic and no harm done! - it'll keep possible teenage mums in school instead of having to go to increasingly regular doctor's appointments - not to mention the high risk of dropping out - , it means the government has to provide for one less child and it gives parents peace of mind that, heaven forbid their little angel gets knocked up! they don't have to face awkward questions.

 

However, this method completely ignores the psychological, social and physical effects that abortion can have on a mother. Quite literally, whenever abortion was mentioned in the classroom, my teacher would talk about it for a while, and then tack on the end: "However, remember that abortion can have severe physical and emotional effects on the mother" and it was always left at that. Of course we were also taught about birth control, but they were marketed poorly in comparison to abortion.

 

Eep. That is not a responsible way of teaching in the least. I'm all for abortion being taught as AN option, but it should DEFINITELY DEFINITELY DEFINITELY be a last resort. It is the responsible thing to do in some situations, but the precautionary methods of birth control are far more responsible. And while this should not happen to currently pregnant mothers who know they will need an abortion (because this is psychologically damaging as all heck) the risks of abortion should DEFINITELY be taught. People need to understand that abortion is not easy. You cannot just pop into an abortion clinic one day and abort your fetus, then go about your day. It IS surgery. It DOES have risks. It CAN be emotionally damaging. Before you consent to sex, you have a choice: to be safe, or not to be safe. If you choose not to use protection, you are putting yourself in danger.

 

 

One more issue involving abortion: A lot of people say that it is both the mother AND the father's right to decide what happens with the fetus. I do feel bad for men in this situation, but I think it has to be the mother's choice. If the mother and father agree, then there is no issue. If the mother and father disagree...who should get the tiebreaker vote? Definitely the one who will be carrying it to term or not.

 

That also brings up another issue: if the father says he's willing to pay for the abortion, but is NOT willing to pay child support or have any custody, but the mother chooses to keep the baby...should he have to pay child support? This issue genuinely stumps me far more than the issue of abortion.

[xSummer]

it's nobody's business except for the person with the option.

[April]

I am against and for it.

I am against people using it for protection but I am for it in the aspect that if parents really don't want the baby, who knows what kind of life that baby will live?

Or if the family has little to no money.

I know that there's adoption but it truly is hard to part with a child.

I guess it's all on the individual.

Some people use this option as a last resort while some just think of it as their first.

It's extremely complicated and that's why I was curious to see your responses.

[Russ]

When one asserts an opinion concerning such subjects, it should be a matter of rational consideration, reflection and understanding. To dismiss all of this simply to say you're against it because a religious authority says so is to deprive yourself of thoughts consideration, to - in effect - just switch off your brain. WHY are you against abortion?

 

 

While there could be some form of discussion when rational reasons are given, no such discussion can be had with appeal to irrelevant authority such as church doctrines. Furthermore, just saying you're 100% against it is to either be malicious or to not consider ALL scenarios.

 

 

What if, for example, you found out that the would be child had Harlequin ichthyosis and will only go through abject suffering for it's brief existence? In such scenario, abortion is the more moral decision - as emotionally painful as abortion might be. Or what about ectopic pregnancies? Being 100% against you would obviously opt to see both mother and fetus die, to which you could hardly be classified as someone who is 'pro-life'.

-applauds-

 

It should absolutely be legal for everyone because it's going to happen whether you like it or not, and I think we can all agree that it's better for everyone involved if abortions are performed by trained medical professionals instead of seedy dudes in alleys with coat hangers. Morally I mostly agree with it, but even if I didn't it isn't my place to make someone else's life-changing decisions based on my morals.

 

Abortion should be an absolute last resort, but it should definitely be an option for anybody who feels it's what they need to do. I agree with what someone posted earlier (though I didn't read this entire topic) - saying that people who get pregnant but don't want the baby should be "punished" by having to care for a child is disgusting. That dehumanizes the child much more than abortion does. Forcing a kid onto a woman as a "punishment" is unfair to her and incredibly cruel to the child. I can't believe people honestly agree with the idea of using a human being to "punish" somebody for a mistake.

[April]

I definitely agree with what was said in the post above me. ^.^

 

If someone really does not want a child and is forced to care for it who knows what that child will go through. Abuse? Possibly.

 

I believe abortion should be legal. But I also believe people should not use it as a reason to not use protection. But hey, that'll never happen. Humanity won't change.

[Russ]

I believe abortion should be legal. But I also believe people should not use it as a reason to not use protection. But hey, that'll never happen. Humanity won't change.

 

Agreed. People who do that are awful and irresponsible but unfortunately we can't make being a bad person illegal.

[Vivies]

I believe it's a personal decision. It absolutely should be legalized.

[Emily]

Abortion should be legal everywhere. The ONLY case in which I have issues is, like others have mentioned, when it is the sole method of birth control. If you take every measure to prevent pregnancy (pill, condom, the whole bit), there is still a small chance that you could end up pregnant. Condoms break, chemical imbalances/ abnormalities keep pills from working. Something as simple as regularly taking advil could mean your birth control is not functioning as well as it should. Accidents happen.

 

In some cases, allowing a baby to be born is the bad decision. Would you rather the baby never be born, or have it be born to a mother who can't care for it, neglects it, can't support it, etc. Is it better to be born into a miserable life than to not be born? Then there's the whole rape idea that I'm not even going to get into because it's already been covered quite extensively.

 

There's also the idea that the child will be born with serious health defects. If a child is born, for example, seriously mentally handicapped and will never be able to talk, move on their own or communicate in any way, what kind of life is this? There's a physical body, yes, but what else?

 

I believe that in the majority of cases, abortion is the responsible choice. And make no mistake. It's a HARD choice. I have a good friend in her mid 30's and she still says that having an abortion was the hardest thing she's ever had to deal with in her life. It's not a choice most people make lightly. There's a lot of thought that goes into it.

 

The last debate is the religion debate. Religion has no place in law. Period. I have nothing against any religion. What I do have an issue with is people thinking their beliefs have the right to control my beliefs. That is not right. Not legalizing abortion because of religion is wholly and completely wrong and unethical. If people who belong to different religions that are against abortion want to choose not to utilize it, that's their choice. But their beliefs have no right to take away my choices.

[Yuika]

The world is overpopulated and there are enough unwanted children. I think that if someone who knows exactly what they're doing and is too lazy to even attempt to use protection it's one thing, and someone whose birth control fails/isn't educated is another. This is not to mention rape, incest, and possible death/illness of either party involved. It seems most people here agree with me, as usual.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

The last debate is the religion debate. Religion has no place in law. Period. I have nothing against any religion. What I do have an issue with is people thinking their beliefs have the right to control my beliefs. That is not right. Not legalizing abortion because of religion is wholly and completely wrong and unethical. If people who belong to different religions that are against abortion want to choose not to utilize it, that's their choice. But their beliefs have no right to take away my choices.

 

This one is a little different from gay marriage, at least. People state religion as their reason for being against abortion, but this part of religion is based on the idea that killing an innocent child is bad. You're right, though--religion has no place in a government whose constitution specifically says that "no establishment of a religion will be respected." The real reason why people should be against abortion if they are going to be is due to moral code against hurting other people.

 

Aaaand then there are the people who are anti-abortion* due to religion, but pro-war and for the death penalty being legal. Just...dude.

 

*Terminology is interesting. Nobody likes to be called "anti" anything, so they spin it and make it pro-something. I honestly find this full of crap. If you're AGAINST the legality of something, then you're anti-something. And if you really think that something is so terrible, you shouldn't have a problem with saying you're anti-that-thing. So people who are against abortion are anti-abortion and shouldn't have a problem with my saying that they are. If people are against abortions even when it will kill the mother, they are not pro-life. And if people care about quantity of lives rather than quality of lives, I'm really worried about them. And if you're against gay marriage, you're not pro-marriage or pro-family--you're trying to ban marriages and ban families.

[Russ]

*Terminology is interesting. Nobody likes to be called "anti" anything, so they spin it and make it pro-something. I honestly find this full of crap. If you're AGAINST the legality of something, then you're anti-something. And if you really think that something is so terrible, you shouldn't have a problem with saying you're anti-that-thing. So people who are against abortion are anti-abortion and shouldn't have a problem with my saying that they are. If people are against abortions even when it will kill the mother, they are not pro-life. And if people care about quantity of lives rather than quality of lives, I'm really worried about them. And if you're against gay marriage, you're not pro-marriage or pro-family--you're trying to ban marriages and ban families.

 

Very well put! I agree entirely. Being opposed to marriage equality is the exact opposite of pro-marriage and using the term "pro-life" to describe anti-abortion is ridiculous. Like, I support legalizing abortion but that doesn't mean I'm "anti-life". I like life very much and everyone should have the right to live the best one they can without interfering with somebody else's. An existing human's rights to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" should always take precedence over those of a developing fetus that has potential to become a person eventually.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Very well put! I agree entirely. Being opposed to marriage equality is the exact opposite of pro-marriage and using the term "pro-life" to describe anti-abortion is ridiculous. Like, I support legalizing abortion but that doesn't mean I'm "anti-life". I like life very much and everyone should have the right to live the best one they can without interfering with somebody else's. An existing human's rights to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" should always take precedence over those of a developing fetus that has potential to become a person eventually.

 

I like to consider myself pro-life, but I'm for quality over quantity. I don't call myself pro-life without explaining myself, of course, and I would never try to go to a "pro-life" convention (if one exists) but I think we need to worry about making life as beautiful as it can be.

 

What's fun is when people use the words "pro-abortion". Yup, because I totally sneak into hospitals and try to convince every pregnant woman to abort her child. I have never met anyone who is "pro-abortion". I have met a few Jonathan Swiftians, however. *shudders* If you're for the legalization of abortion, that doesn't mean you're in favor of abortion. You just recognize its need for legality to prevent horrible things from happening.

 

On the other side, I don't like to call people "anti-choice". It focuses on the taking away the right to choose. Contrary to some people, I DON'T believe that anti-abortion people just hate women. Let's focus on what they actually believe: that the abortion itself is wrong.

[The Meepit Commando]

I can't stand abortion, NOONE FORCED YOU TO HAVE A CHILD PEOPLE, sorry about the all caps, but It makes me so mad. :grrr:

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I can't stand abortion, NOONE FORCED YOU TO HAVE A CHILD PEOPLE, sorry about the all caps, but It makes me so mad. :grrr:

 

Uh, banning abortion DOES force you to have a child, though. That's pretty much exactly the point of banning abortion.

 

There are many cases in which yes, the pregnancy is forced. (Rape. It happens more than you think. 1 in 4 women in America are victims of an attempted/completed assault. I was one of these at the age of 14--but I was VERY good at defending myself.) There are many cases in which the pregnancy is planned, but it turns out some complication makes it so that it becomes dangerous. I think that people need to state both a legal opinion and a moral opinion--what is moral vs. what is immoral, and what should be legal vs. what should be illegal. I'm not sure what your opinion actually is on the legality of abortion: you "can't stand abortion" but would you ban it for everyone? Would you ban it just for those who you know had irresponsible unprotected sex? How would you enforce that?

[The Meepit Commando]

rape, I forgot about that completely, well I guess It would be OK IMO than, or if the mom gets sick and having the baby puts her life at risk.

[Russ]

rape, I forgot about that completely, well I guess It would be OK IMO than, or if the mom gets sick and having the baby puts her life at risk.

 

Things aren't always as black and white as they seem. What about when the mother is unable to financially support the baby for whatever reasons? I also agree with the post before mine - there's a difference between your legal opinion and your moral opinion. You can hate abortion but still think it should be legal. To believe one's own moral beliefs should be relevant in deciding what rights others do or do not have is arrogant.

[The Meepit Commando]

It should be legal but only if you have a good reason

[Welcome Back Apathy]

It should be legal but only if you have a good reason

 

Again, a difference between legal and moral. Let me tell you--it is impossible to regulate "good reason". It's pretty obvious that there's a good reason if the mother is dying; that is black and white. But rape is not as black and white as it sounds. A lot of rape goes unreported. A lot of false rapes are reported. If a woman got pregnant by rape but hadn't reported it, it will look like a false rape report if she goes forward afterward. If a woman suspects that she is pregnant, she could go to the police with a teary-eyed face and pretend she got raped. In fact, if someone is irresponsible enough to have sex without protection and without a care in the world, she may just be selfish enough to fake a rape.

 

Unfortunately, it definitely happens. There are documented cases--for instance, a case from years back in which a girl missed curfew, so she came home and told her parents she got raped. An innocent man went to jail, got labeled a sex offender, and even when he was freed because she was PROVEN to be a liar, he could never get hired again.

 

I definitely agree with you on the moral part--that people need to be responsible and do their best not to get pregnant--but unfortunately, legislating it is a whole other matter.

[April]

I agree with that.

While I do not like abortion. I fully believe it should be legal as there are many circumstances that abortion is, as harsh as this seems, better.

What if the mother is into drugs? Or if they can't afford a child? Or in rape? Or just someone is not ready for a baby and won't be able to take care of the child. There are many other reasons.

 

I do believe people should not use abortion as their "protection" but without abortion there would be teenagers or even adults trying their own methods which would endanger them. If there was not legal abortion, imagine the problems there would be from people trying to perform it themselves?