Let's talk about GAY MARRIAGE!

[April]

i really doubt you respect my opinion. but my reasoning:

 

humans are made for reproducing. gay people can't reproduce.

 

look at a firefly. it lives 24 hours. what does it do in that time? it reproduces.

 

look at a female ferret. if she goes into heat and can't find a mate, she'll die.

 

so by marrying gay people we are going against the purpose of life .

 

I do actually respect your opinion.

 

I can also respect your reasoning. But I do not agree.

 

If humans are "made" for reproducing, why then are some people unable to create a child?

 

What do people in gay marriages do when they want a child? In most cases, adopt. Yes, adopt. Why is that so great? There are so many unwanted children out there with no homes. So I am happy for each child that gets a decent home.

 

Our world is getting over populated, so I don't think that each person should have a child. Only if you really wish for a child. We may also be animals, but we are very different animals. For most people, a family is not a priority. A career is. What we humans try to accomplish in our lives does not really have to be the same as an animal. Just my thoughts. :)

[Yuika]

i really doubt you respect my opinion. but my reasoning:

 

humans are made for reproducing. gay people can't reproduce.

 

look at a firefly. it lives 24 hours. what does it do in that time? it reproduces.

 

look at a female ferret. if she goes into heat and can't find a mate, she'll die.

 

so by marrying gay people we are going against the purpose of life .

Do you judge all human habits against those of insects? Just wondering.

 

Old people shouldn't be married? Barren women shouldn't get married? Sterile men shouldn't get married? What about gay animals? (Yes, they exist.)

[April]

Do you judge all human habits against those of insects? Just wondering.

 

Old people shouldn't be married? Barren women shouldn't get married? Sterile men shouldn't get married? What about gay animals? (Yes, they exist.)

 

All valid points. After all, I stated that if humans were meant to reproduce why would some men or women be born with the inability to conceive?

Yes, I know sometimes this happens from things you do in your life but sometimes it just is. What are they, mutants of our species if they can't uphold the meaning of it? No. Besides, like I said, the world is populated enough and at least a lot of gay couples do adopt children without homes and in many cases give them quite a loving environment. :)

[The Terminator]

All valid points. After all, I stated that if humans were meant to reproduce why would some men or women be born with the inability to conceive?

Yes, I know sometimes this happens from things you do in your life but sometimes it just is. What are they, mutants of our species if they can't uphold the meaning of it? No. Besides, like I said, the world is populated enough and at least a lot of gay couples do adopt children without homes and in many cases give them quite a loving environment. :)

 

Lots of gay people can reproduce and should uphold what we are created to do.

[April]

Lots of gay people can reproduce and should uphold what we are created to do.

 

So let me get this straight. We are created, just to recreate?

 

No one really knows the "purpose" of life. Some people do different things.

 

Life is short, so why not let those that love each other enjoy it?

 

I am for Gay Marriage and am so happy it is legal in Canada. I would be ashamed of our Nation if it was not. But it is and I love my country. :)

[Yuika]

All valid points. After all, I stated that if humans were meant to reproduce why would some men or women be born with the inability to conceive?

Yes, I know sometimes this happens from things you do in your life but sometimes it just is. What are they, mutants of our species if they can't uphold the meaning of it? No. Besides, like I said, the world is populated enough and at least a lot of gay couples do adopt children without homes and in many cases give them quite a loving environment. :)

Lol, huh? I wasn't arguing with you.

[April]

Lol, huh? I wasn't arguing with you.

 

I wasn't arguing with you either. I was just commenting on what you said and elaborating on what I had said. I agree with you. :)

[Russ]

i really doubt you respect my opinion. but my reasoning:

 

humans are made for reproducing. gay people can't reproduce.

 

look at a firefly. it lives 24 hours. what does it do in that time? it reproduces.

 

look at a female ferret. if she goes into heat and can't find a mate, she'll die.

 

so by marrying gay people we are going against the purpose of life .

 

So, what, should sterile people not be allowed to get married? Or the elderly? They can't reproduce, after all, and you're implying that procreation should be the only reason for marriage. While we're at it, why don't we just revoke the marriages of people who fail to conceive a child within, say, 5 years? They're not living up to their "obligation" to have kids if they get married, after all.

 

I'm not going to lie -- I don't respect your opinion. I respect the opinions of people who disagree with me in virtually any other area (people who oppose marijuana legalization, people who support affirmative action, people who support gun control, people who are anti-abortion, etc), but I don't respect your opinion here because it's prejudiced and dehumanizes an entire minority group. I think that there are some opinions that really just aren't worthy of respect, and this is one of them. It'd be like saying "black people shouldn't be able to marry white people, because it isn't natural" or something. There's a line between when you have an unpopular opinion and when you're just being prejudiced, and opposing the granting of basic civil liberties to the LGBT community crosses that line. An opinion that inherently says "You are different and therefore inferior" does not deserve respect. That isn't to say I disrespect you, just your opinion.

[Alice ☮]

@Terminator: Others may respect your opinion. I don't. It's flawed and invalid. Plus, each and every single one of your "arguments" are flimsily constructed at best, and can be easily disproven.

 

The argument that since gay couples cannot produce children naturally is ludicrous. I'll try not to be redundant since so many others have put out some really good points. I just wanted to add that a lesbian couple can easily produce children with their own genes with in-vitro fertilization and a sperm donor, and male gay couples can use surrogate mothers if they want their child to have their genetics.

[The Terminator]

so let me get this straight. because I believe different from you, I don't deserve respect for how I feel?

 

Ok, the main reason I feel that way was I was raised by two fathers. and I got made fun of and ridiculed at school. so I am against it for that reason. that gay parents shouldn't have children.

 

I just tried to come up with a different reason because I am humiliated to admit the real reason is because my very loving parents were the reason I was so often ridiculed at school.

 

If you haven't been in my shoes and what it was like to go to school with my locker been painted and to get beaten up because of my parents then you can not say anything about why and how I feel that gay couples shouldn't marry.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

so let me get this straight. because I believe different from you, I don't deserve respect for how I feel?

 

Ok, the main reason I feel that way was I was raised by two fathers. and I got made fun of and ridiculed at school. so I am against it for that reason. that gay parents shouldn't have children.

 

I just tried to come up with a different reason because I am humiliated to admit the real reason is because my very loving parents were the reason I was so often ridiculed at school.

 

If you haven't been in my shoes and what it was like to go to school with my locker been painted and to get beaten up because of my parents then you can not say anything about why and how I feel that gay couples shouldn't marry.

 

I think what people are saying is, you are entitled to your own opinions, but to support those opinions in a debate, you need to back them up with facts. You made a valiant effort, but the effort was easily dashed by simple facts.

 

However, I really doubt that you are telling the truth when you say that you were raised by two fathers. Why? Because if you really had any respect for your "very loving parents" then you would NOT have said that gay people shouldn't act like a couple in public. You wouldn't have called it a joke in the face of real marriage. If you actually cared at all about them, you wouldn't bash them like that. Would you show that post to your "very loving parents"? Would they be proud of you?

 

Here's the thing: I respect all opinions as long as those opinions are respectful. However, the VERY FIRST THING YOU SAID was incredibly disrespectful: you said that gay people shouldn't even be allowed to act like a couple in public. You said that it made "real marriage" look like a joke. I would have respected your opinion, but you preceded it with something so hateful, I can't stand it. For the record, I am married--and gay marriage being ILLEGAL makes marriage look like a joke, because it proves that marriage is only based on genitals and sex. My marriage (which happens to be to someone of the opposite sex) is based on love, not genitals.

 

Gay marriage IS real marriage. At the very least, give it the respect it deserves while explaining why you think it shouldn't be legal.

 

[The Terminator]

that is a little rude. after all. anyone is entitled to say their opinion. they don't need facts to have an opinion.

 

on that note. you don't know my home life.

 

my parents are loving but i wish they weren't married. i wish they weren't together.

 

because i have been teased to no end. it's selfish but for other children that could be in my shoes in the future. i feel it shouldn't be allowed.

 

it's making the bullying problem worse. you ahve no idea the crap i've had to deal with. i do blame the bullies but i can not help but feel anger towards my "parents"

you can say that's rude, cruel or whatever but i can't help how i feel. i try to act like i love them and i do. just not as a couple. it's made my life terrible.

 

i don't feel it deserves respect in my opinion. i have nothing against gay couples. just gay couplse with children.

 

and the reason i said they shouldn't act like couples in public? picture this. i'm already being made fun of for my parents, at a school event they come pick me up and they begin to kiss in front of all the students.

 

do you know how much worse that made it for me? you can call me selfish for feeling this way but at times i have wanted to die and get away from it. and wish for a normal family. so forgive me for being agaisnt it. i have personal reasons for that. it's not that i find it disgusting or anything.

[Alice ☮]

 

^This made my day ^_^

 

You also made some very strong points. When I'm more fully awake, I'll probably pop in again and add to the discussion.

[April]

that is a little rude. after all. anyone is entitled to say their opinion. they don't need facts to have an opinion.

 

on that note. you don't know my home life.

 

my parents are loving but i wish they weren't married. i wish they weren't together.

 

because i have been teased to no end. it's selfish but for other children that could be in my shoes in the future. i feel it shouldn't be allowed.

 

it's making the bullying problem worse. you ahve no idea the crap i've had to deal with. i do blame the bullies but i can not help but feel anger towards my "parents"

you can say that's rude, cruel or whatever but i can't help how i feel. i try to act like i love them and i do. just not as a couple. it's made my life terrible.

 

i don't feel it deserves respect in my opinion. i have nothing against gay couples. just gay couplse with children.

 

and the reason i said they shouldn't act like couples in public? picture this. i'm already being made fun of for my parents, at a school event they come pick me up and they begin to kiss in front of all the students.

 

do you know how much worse that made it for me? you can call me selfish for feeling this way but at times i have wanted to die and get away from it. and wish for a normal family. so forgive me for being agaisnt it. i have personal reasons for that. it's not that i find it disgusting or anything.

 

Hmm. Well I do understand why you feel that way. That would be rough. I've been bullied, it's no fun.

 

I wish you had taken a different approach to this though. Perhaps, said straight up why it bothers you.

 

Although it's not gay couples marrying that should be changing, but instead the way society views them. You shouldn't be bullied for something like that. It just blows my mind how people think it's something to make fun of. Then again, people get made fun of for the clothes they wear sometimes.

 

It makes me so unbelievably angry. It's ridiculous. I'll probably come change this and actually add valid points once I calm down. Just the idea of it is making me mad right now. XD

[Welcome Back Apathy]

that is a little rude. after all. anyone is entitled to say their opinion. they don't need facts to have an opinion.

 

on that note. you don't know my home life.

 

my parents are loving but i wish they weren't married. i wish they weren't together.

 

because i have been teased to no end. it's selfish but for other children that could be in my shoes in the future. i feel it shouldn't be allowed.

 

it's making the bullying problem worse. you ahve no idea the crap i've had to deal with. i do blame the bullies but i can not help but feel anger towards my "parents"

you can say that's rude, cruel or whatever but i can't help how i feel. i try to act like i love them and i do. just not as a couple. it's made my life terrible.

 

i don't feel it deserves respect in my opinion. i have nothing against gay couples. just gay couplse with children.

 

and the reason i said they shouldn't act like couples in public? picture this. i'm already being made fun of for my parents, at a school event they come pick me up and they begin to kiss in front of all the students.

 

do you know how much worse that made it for me? you can call me selfish for feeling this way but at times i have wanted to die and get away from it. and wish for a normal family. so forgive me for being agaisnt it. i have personal reasons for that. it's not that i find it disgusting or anything.

 

I will say it again. This forum is the *debate chat*. In a *debate*, you need to back it up with actual evidence. So while you are allowed to say your opinion, everyone else is entitled to refute your opinion with cold, hard facts. In fact, if you ever want to participate in a real debate, you HAVE to back it up with actual evidence.

 

So which part was a little rude? The part where you were hateful and I recognized it and told you to be respectful if you wanted to keep our respect? You can't complain about others disrespecting your opinion if you can't even have an ounce of respect in your very first post. If you don't feel gay marriage (or gay people, it appears) deserves respect, then fine, but you can't then turn around and complain about us not respecting you. If you flaunt your lack of respect for people, no one will have qualms about their loss of respect for you.

 

I won't bother addressing the bullying issue, even assuming you are telling the truth. (Notice that I said that the reason I didn't believe you was based on the evidence of your previous posts--I used evidence; I didn't just pull an opinion out of the air.) You can read over the previous posts that happened before you got to the chat. Many people have addressed this problem. I will only say:

1) The people doing the wrong in this case are the bullies, not the gay people. Don't put blame where blame doesn't lie. That's like telling women that if they don't want to get raped, then they should never go to parties or bars.

2) Something doesn't become respected until it is there in your face, respected as a normal thing. Where I live, people don't get bullied for being gay. That's because gay marriage *is* legal where I'm from, and it's a perfectly normal thing over here.

3) Bullies will find ANY reason to bully you. When you solve the problem by getting rid of the reason rather than stopping the bully, you GIVE bullies power.

4) I personally wasn't bullied too terribly. However, other people in this chat can tell you that they were bullied for whatever reasons. So while I don't know how it feels (the worst I ever got was people trying to convince me to commit suicide and spreading smear campaigns around the school) others can. And they will still fight for the rights of gay people.

[Jess Is Somewhere Else]

I think people should get married if they want to feel closer to the one they love. If the one they love happens to be of the same gender, that shouldn't be a problem, and it shouldn't be made fun of either.

[chibi_chibi_tsukino]

I believe that it is embarrassing how few developed countries give gay couples equal rights. It is not only about being able to express love and commitment, but there are also many legal issues (e.g. when one partner dies or is very sick) that can be dealt with more easily when they are married. A straight, unmarried couple I know had serious problems when one of them had to go to hospital and their partner wasn't allowed to see them. Afterwards they got married to avoid this in the future. Gay couples should have the same option.

[Jess Is Somewhere Else]

I think it's bad how it's being made fun of on TV. What will children grow up to think of if they watch things making fun of it on the TV?

[Welcome Back Apathy]

A straight, unmarried couple I know had serious problems when one of them had to go to hospital and their partner wasn't allowed to see them. Afterwards they got married to avoid this in the future.

That's a horrible situation to happen to anybody, whether straight or gay. Obviously, I think that gay marriage needs to be legal, but in addition, every patient needs to be able to have an emergency contact card. Then everyone on that card should be able to come visit you in the hospital. If I were living across the country from my family, I would want someone CLOSE BY to be able to visit. It could be a significant other, but I feel like it should even be a close friend/roommate.

[Russ]

that is a little rude. after all. anyone is entitled to say their opinion. they don't need facts to have an opinion.

The existence of homophobia proves that this is a fact.

If somebody has an opinion - especially a prejudiced one - with no logic or facts behind it, then I'm not going to respect it. I don't think I should respect it when someone tells me that I don't deserve equal rights as the guy next to me just because of what I'm attracted to.

 

As far as the stuff about bullying. Well that really sucks, but that doesn't mean that we should just keep acceptance at a standstill. Kids get bullied for being nerdy; should we ban nerdiness? Kids get bullied for wearing glasses; should we ban glasses? No. The bullying is the problem, not the reason for the kid being targeted. Two dudes raising a kid doesn't inherently cause bullying at all. What causes bullying is society deciding that it's acceptable to judge people on the basis of sexual orientation. Do you not see that you're being just as judgmental and oppressive as the people bullying you?

 

Banning LGBT couples from raising kids and marrying will just single them out and say "Yep, those guys aren't normal. Judge them all you want. They aren't human beings, so why does it matter? Screw them." That isn't going to lead to acceptance and it isn't going to stop the gay community from existing, so it won't solve anything. What needs to change is people's perceptions of the gay community, because we aren't going away and we aren't going to stop fighting for equality until we get it. If gay people had equal rights then people would start to see us as more normal, and so bullying wouldn't happen. If gay parents became relatively commonplace, then it wouldn't be all that much of a cause for bullying.

 

Bullying is going to happen. Whether it's because you're too fat or too skinny or too smart or too stupid or too nerdy or too jocky or too prude or too promiscuous or too masculine or too feminine or you're gay or your parents are gay or your sibling is gay or your cousin is gay or you suck at sports or you suck at math or you're just plain awkward... It's going to happen. Bullies don't give half a care about the logic behind whether LGBT couples deserve equal rights. They just see "hey that guy's different. let's belittle him to make us feel cooler" because that's what makes them feel powerful. It has literally nothing to do with homosexuality whatsoever and everything to do with people identifying someone else as an easy target.

[behemothrules]

The fact that gay marriage is even an issue in this world sickens me, if two people are in love why shouldn't they be able to get married? Its as simple as that.

[Jess Is Somewhere Else]

That picture that was shown earlier was a good point. But try telling that to the people at my school...

[Nataluna]

currently this is a political issue in Australia, the current government party is in conference this week and its an issue which the party will probably decide its stance on then.

 

my personal opinion? i believe its the right thing to allow gay/lesbian marriage. homosexuality has been demonstrated in a number of species (have a look for ducks) and i don't consider it un-natural. there is a recent study also on transgender (i am aware this is a different subject!) in which transgender patient demonstrate a brain pattern and development with more in common with their identified gender.

 

the Prime Minister stands for marriage as a "sacred union" and is against it, one of her cabinet minister's is a lesbian (and with a new baby recently! so cute), its contenious, although a recent neilsen poll showed 67% of australians (the number is 60 something, its from memory!) support legalising gay marriage.

 

most likely it will come down to a conscience vote (PM has stated that she will not force members to vote along party lines)

 

At a recent political debate with the PM which i was lucky enough to attend, a member of the audience asked her directly why he couldn't marry his partner, it also was in regards to failing to have the government recognise them as partners for various tax, health and other issues, the important thing is that although he is entitled to some of the benefits under a civil partnership, there is a lack of other services/rights available to a married couple. and that is what gets me, there should be equality in the same sort of relationship regardless of gender. if gender discrimination is considered unacceptable for anything else, its a lawsuit, yet legistlation technically discriminates by failing to protect the rights of same gender couples.

 

i will note that the PM said her staff will follow up on that audience member to ensure his particular case gets settled, but it got me thinking then, what about other people who didn't have the same opportunity?

 

and it think it is worth pointing out, homosexuality is a crime in sharia law, the past Malaysian deputy prime minister Awar was arrested in malaysia on those grounds, which are considered by some to be politically motivated. regardless if he was a good minister or not, he is considered tainted by the allegations the same way any sex scandal ruins a politician and his chances of political leadership are considered ruined. I point that out because so far the issue has been mentioned to apply soley regarding America, but i consider it a wider issue outside christianity and America, applicable to the democratic world.

[Balthamel]

I think it's OK for them to get married, but NOT IN A CHURCH because the church has its own laws and it would be a real mockery for the church if that would happen. I mean, you don't have to be a believer (I'm personally not) in order to respect church laws.

[Yuika]

I think it's OK for them to get married, but NOT IN A CHURCH because the church has its own laws and it would be a real mockery for the church if that would happen. I mean, you don't have to be a believer (I'm personally not) in order to respect church laws.

Um, this may sound silly coming from an atheist, but there are churches who support gay marriage. In fact, my church choir directer when I was a child was openly gay. Churches make a mockery of themselves, often enough. Besides, no one ever said that churches should be forced to house gay marriages.