Gensei Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Gay marriage is not really an issue that makes it to the forefront of things on my list of activist priorities.. But, it's something that should unquestionably be accepted by every society across the globe - It isn't harmful, it's not your right to to interfere in the affairs of two consenting adults, and it's morally wrong to condemn some one who isn't harming you, or your family (or anyone else) simply because their preference/orientation is different from yours.. The reason it's something I've never cared much about is because it seems so incredibly simple.. When a bible belt parent prevents their daughter from marrying that mischevious boy from down the street simply because he dresses outside of social norms and has a tattoo, we condemn her as a controlling and judgmental old bat. Why wouldn't we do the same to that very mom for preventing her daughter from marrying the mischevious girl from down the street who dresses outside of the norm and has a tattoo? Here's why: Because there are books and strict gender roles governing peoples' minds in various cultures around the world.. In America, if you're male and prefer an androgynous look to the jersey shore look, then you're less than a man.. You can guess what it's like if you are actually attracted to men and happen to be a man. Christianity isn't solely to blame for this, but it obviously plays a huge part because it condemns these people as abominations for their choice of partner. I consider preserving peoples' right to choose as a conservative value, not a liberal one.. It's only a liberal position in a society full of theocratic and sexist nutjobs. I'm neither conservative nor liberal, but people who label me a liberal because I uphold such elementary moral values bug me.. They only get away with their bigotry because there are so many bigots in American society that you couldn't properly count them all.. Gods of wrath are fun in video games, books, movies, and sitcoms, but in reality, if you serve a god that would put some one to death for their bedroom choices for any reason other than the fear he'll kill you, then you have forsaken your humanity.. Imagine that - A god who condemns people to die over such trivialities.. There are people in the world who are still tortured in some of the most enlightened of societies, yet he would condemn homosexuals to enternal damnation for doing something utterly harmless. Of all the problems in the world, he feels justified in killing those who've committed no crime against another human being. Not all islamic or christians believe their god is this way by any means, to be clear, but many do. In my opinion, if you believe in god, and he's as amazingly murderous as your holybook depicts him(no one that overwhelmingly sexist and evil is gonna be a woman), then you should be finding ways to protect the rest of us from him and not trying to pull us towards his deathcult. Azurablue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billpika_x8 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 It's sad to think this is even an issue. Accept people for who they are. I'm hetero alright, but I think should be legalized where it isn't, and accepted. GOD IS LOVE. People who use religion to back their opinions are blind. They cannot face the real thing. Pardon me if I'm ignorant, but gays are perfectly good people. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkt Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Gay marriage is not really an issue that makes it to the forefront of things on my list of activist priorities.. But, it's something that should unquestionably be accepted by every society across the globe - It isn't harmful, it's not your right to to interfere in the affairs of two consenting adults, and it's morally wrong to condemn some one who isn't harming you, or your family (or anyone else) simply because their preference/orientation is different from yours.. The reason it's something I've never cared much about is because it seems so incredibly simple.. When a bible belt parent prevents their daughter from marrying that mischevious boy from down the street simply because he dresses outside of social norms and has a tattoo, we condemn her as a controlling and judgmental old bat. Why wouldn't we do the same to that very mom for preventing her daughter from marrying the mischevious girl from down the street who dresses outside of the norm and has a tattoo? Here's why: Because there are books and strict gender roles governing peoples' minds in various cultures around the world.. In America, if you're male and prefer an androgynous look to the jersey shore look, then you're less than a man.. You can guess what it's like if you are actually attracted to men and happen to be a man. Christianity isn't solely to blame for this, but it obviously plays a huge part because it condemns these people as abominations for their choice of partner. I consider preserving peoples' right to choose as a conservative value, not a liberal one.. It's only a liberal position in a society full of theocratic and sexist nutjobs. I'm neither conservative nor liberal, but people who label me a liberal because I uphold such elementary moral values bug me.. They only get away with their bigotry because there are so many bigots in American society that you couldn't properly count them all.. Gods of wrath are fun in video games, books, movies, and sitcoms, but in reality, if you serve a god that would put some one to death for their bedroom choices for any reason other than the fear he'll kill you, then you have forsaken your humanity.. Imagine that - A god who condemns people to die over such trivialities.. There are people in the world who are still tortured in some of the most enlightened of societies, yet he would condemn homosexuals to enternal damnation for doing something utterly harmless. Of all the problems in the world, he feels justified in killing those who've committed no crime against another human being. Not all islamic or christians believe their god is this way by any means, to be clear, but many do. In my opinion, if you believe in god, and he's as amazingly murderous as your holybook depicts him(no one that overwhelmingly sexist and evil is gonna be a woman), then you should be finding ways to protect the rest of us from him and not trying to pull us towards his deathcult. Please, let me start a slow clap in response to this. I think I may be in love. :wub_anim: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansy900 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It seems to me that only the older generation tends to have a difficult time with gay marriage. When brought up in school most people agree that gay marriage is fine. It seems like boys tend to be more opposed than girls. Like they threaten their manhood or something <_< . There not terrorists or serial killers, they won't hurt you anymore than anyone else will. They like boys or they like girls. So much for it's a free country ehh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommy Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 In society, it is more acceptable for women to be lesbians. Look at how many mainstream movies and television series feature at some point young, beautiful lesbians. Straight men love it because it is "hot" to see two women making out. Thus, it is socially (more) acceptable. Two men making out though.....OH. MY. GOD. GET THEM AWAY FROM ME. One great example is the soap opera couple Noah and Luke. Whenever they would kiss early on, the camera would pan away. Only after the fans (mostly women) screamed out in protest did the executives actually show them kissing. Men are just such crazy creatures. I took a class on masculinity my last semester at school and I have to say...the things that society forces upon boys to become its definition of "men" is almost as repressive as what society has done to women. Only it is a silent problem that many do not see as such. Anyway to summarize my rant...boys hate GBT (notice i take out the L) more because society still teaches them to do so. On the road toward "manhood", homosexuality is simply the antithesis of getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm not gay, but I don't think it is right for us to tell people what to do either way. If it was natural to be gay, would it be wrong to marry straight? I think the newer generation has no problem with gays in America, we do still fight about it with Republicans, but like I always say Church and State should be separate, because how are you going to have a country with freedom of religion and the State is picking Christianity as their religion of choice to follow. Other countries in the Middle East, are ruled by their religion and until they are not, gays will always be persecuted there. In my opinion, if you believe in god, and he's as amazingly murderous as your holybook depicts him(no one that overwhelmingly sexist and evil is gonna be a woman), then you should be finding ways to protect the rest of us from him and not trying to pull us towards his deathcult. God does not condemn anyone for being gay, the whole principal of being a Christian is belief, believing in God. If you wholly and truly believe in God, with everything in your heart, everything in your soul, your saved. Christians will say that this should lead you away from being gay, but in the end He knows your a sinner, and he accepts you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 In society, it is more acceptable for women to be lesbians. Look at how many mainstream movies and television series feature at some point young, beautiful lesbians. Straight men love it because it is "hot" to see two women making out. I think it's pretty open to debate whether objectifying lesbians as pairs of boobs that make out with each other equates to social acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilightprincess922 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I think it's okay. It's not my lifestyle, or my choice in marriage, but I believe we all have the right to love whomever we please. Most people who are gay say they were born that way; and that means we cannot change that. I'm kinda sorta-ish Christian, I grew up in the LDS Church but left when I was 13 with my sister. But I agree with the people above, and that just because we don't 'like' the idea doesn't mean we should label it as an abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuika Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 In society, it is more acceptable for women to be lesbians. Look at how many mainstream movies and television series feature at some point young, beautiful lesbians. Straight men love it because it is "hot" to see two women making out. Thus, it is socially (more) acceptable. I can't say I agree... most of the "lesbians" on television are actually bisexual or blatant fanservice. I think there are more serious, well done storylines involving gay male characters, to be honest. (Just look at Glee and the vast difference between the male storyline and the horrifically bad female one. /lol opinions) Two women making out does not lesbians make. So what I would say is that in society, it is more acceptable for women to be bisexual (as long as they prefer men, P:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasavo Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm canadian, and the right to marry same sex has been legal for quite a few years here. I didn't even know it was legalized because I was still young back then and didn't quite understand it all. But I see no difference in my heterosexual life between before when gay marriage was illegal, and now when it is legal. Marrying whomever you please (who is a consenting adult) is a basic human right. It is none debatable. Voting on something like that goes against human rights, because it should already be legal. End of story. Not that this is much a debate, since everyone seems to agree haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gensei Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 God does not condemn anyone for being gay, the whole principal of being a Christian is belief, believing in God. If you wholly and truly believe in God, with everything in your heart, everything in your soul, your saved. Christians will say that this should lead you away from being gay, but in the end He knows your a sinner, and he accepts you anyway. Leviticus 18:22 is one of the clearest things written in the bible.. If you don't agree with it then awesome, but it's something all christians need to notice and reject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Okay so it's an abomination to be gay in God's eyes, but he tells you not to steal and not to murder, and he forgives all those things as well. So he forgives you if your gay. Are you saying that if you are a gay Christian God won't bring you to heaven? God forgives all sins, he is a forgiving God, not a murderous one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivies Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Leviticus 18:22 is one of the clearest things written in the bible.. If you don't agree with it then awesome, but it's something all christians need to notice and reject. Let's avoid tossing out scriptures, because there are plenty that also mention cutting your hair is a sin, having a tattoo, playing football(skin of a pig), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensorchadragon Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 AAAANDD it's the classic OT - vs - NT debate... sigh I think that government should stay out of marriage altogether, no matter who it's involving. I'm a hetero, Christian female married to a hetero, Christian male. But that doesn't make it my job to tell people how to live their lives. Should I expect that everyone in society lives the way I do? Uhhh, no. It's not for us to decide how people live. If you're truly a Christian, you'll stop whining about gay marriage and focus instead on how you can better serve God. This, this, a thousand times this. I am Christian and agree. The only thing I'd say different is that I'm not married yet. xD In addition, the fact that the USA has a separation of church and state means that the church can't order the government what to do and vice versa, so [the remainder of this is to fellow Christians] stop complaining. Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world" so stop trying to make it that way. We are to live set apart anyway, we can't live "set apart" if the entire culture around us is exactly the way we want it. Yes that would be nice but that's not what we're called to, stop being jerks and accept that you won't be accepted. </endrant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piticent Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I guess I'm on the fence with this one. WHY I'M FOR: - They're people, they should have rights to marry whoever they want - It would show america yet again that we should open up to new ideas that have previosly been outcasted - It isn't a lethal/harmful action to marry somebody of the same sex. If you do think it is, stop reading tabloids. WHY I'M AGAINST: - It isn't normal. people have enough trouble being accepted as is, and they ARE normal - I don't see the point in it. I consider people that are other boys that I'd like a lot to be very close friends. I wouldn't marry the guy. (For girls, switch very close friends to BFFs) - It's been illegal (?) for TONS of time, and America has been functioning fine without it. Why change? Why take a risk? I guess I'm more persuaded by my 'for' reasons, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkt Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 WHY I'M AGAINST: - It isn't normal. people have enough trouble being accepted as is, and they ARE normal - I don't see the point in it. I consider people that are other boys that I'd like a lot to be very close friends. I wouldn't marry the guy. (For girls, switch very close friends to BFFs) - It's been illegal (?) for TONS of time, and America has been functioning fine without it. Why change? Why take a risk? I guess I'm more persuaded by my 'for' reasons, though... Normal is a subjective term. What is normal to you may not be normal to someone else and vice versa. Just because you think two people of the same sex loving one another isn't "normal", doesn't mean that it isn't valid. Yes, many people have a tough time being accepted, especially minorities. Does that make people of color not normal? How about people with disabilities? The LGBT community can't change themselves no more than anyone else can change the way they were born. I understand that it's difficult for straights to sometimes understand how people can fall in love with someone with the same genitals. Honestly, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can only be attracted to one kind of person, because I've just never felt that way. What is the point in straight marriage, then? Because you love one another and want to spend the rest of your life with that person? That's what I always thought, and I don't think someone should be excluded because the person they love just doesn't happen to have the correct genitalia to produce offspring. Which is irrelevant in this day and age anyway what with the world being so overpopulated. Not too long ago, blacks marrying whites was illegal. It wasn't too long ago either that blacks had to sit at the back of the bus, use different water fountains and were excluded from practicing their faith in the same church as whites. Now, I'm not trying to compare the struggles of blacks to the struggles of LGBT members, as there are obvious differences, but it's a discrimination issue none the less. America has constant change. We take chances, that's what makes this country so great. What had happened if we didn't change slavery? That's an extreme example, but I hope it makes my point clear. There is no "risk" of gay marriage. It would not change society other than to take one step forward toward equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tafeltennisden Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 i think it has to be a free choice and it has to be possible. but you know not everyone thinks so, so if you have a gay-marriage then you always have the risk that a lot of people look a bit strange at you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkt Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 i think it has to be a free choice and it has to be possible. but you know not everyone thinks so, so if you have a gay-marriage then you always have the risk that a lot of people look a bit strange at you People are always going to "look a bit strange at" someone who is different. Openly gay, lesbian, transgendered, bisexual and queer people are already used to being discriminated against and seen as the odd one out. That's not expected to change, not for a long, long time with our society currently the way it is. But it's about equality, and like you said, having the free choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gensei Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Okay so it's an abomination to be gay in God's eyes, but he tells you not to steal and not to murder, and he forgives all those things as well. So he forgives you if your gay. Are you saying that if you are a gay Christian God won't bring you to heaven? God forgives all sins, he is a forgiving God, not a murderous one. I'm sort of playing devils advocate here: But if god writes something as clear as day, and you continue in that sin, will he infinitely forgive you even if you knowingly commit that sin? To me it seems like a parent that would continually forgive their child for breaking curfew without any repercussions even though they say there will be repercussions at some point (the afterlife). Let's avoid tossing out scriptures, because there are plenty that also mention cutting your hair is a sin, having a tattoo, playing football(skin of a pig), etc. Why write in laws that you later contradict like you never wrote them? A god with infinite wisdom should also have infinite memory or atleast humility.. I find christians to be some of my favorite people around, so I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'd be really happy if they'd admit that the bible gets it wrong sometimes.. There's some genuinely good things written in the bible, but there's loads of bad, and that seriously needs to be recognized so we can turn churches that'd use the bible to demonize people into pariahs. As it stands, people like John Hagee and Pat Robertson regularly vilify anything that doesn't line up with the bible while pulling in thousands of followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piticent Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Well, I understand normal is a subjective term, but however, I think of it as 'average' or what the majority of society thinks...(ya I know, depends on what society means...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkt Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Well, I understand normal is a subjective term, but however, I think of it as 'average' or what the majority of society thinks...(ya I know, depends on what society means...) I love that this was the only part of my statement that you chose to respond to. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piticent Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Well that was the only part of MY response you responded to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gensei Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I guess I'm on the fence with this one. WHY I'M FOR: - They're people, they should have rights to marry whoever they want - It would show america yet again that we should open up to new ideas that have previosly been outcasted - It isn't a lethal/harmful action to marry somebody of the same sex. If you do think it is, stop reading tabloids. Not sure why you'd be on the fence when these are all completely reasonable reactions to gay marriage far removed from your reasonings to be against it. WHY I'M AGAINST: - It isn't normal. people have enough trouble being accepted as is, and they ARE normal - I don't see the point in it. I consider people that are other boys that I'd like a lot to be very close friends. I wouldn't marry the guy. (For girls, switch very close friends to BFFs) - It's been illegal (?) for TONS of time, and America has been functioning fine without it. Why change? Why take a risk? I guess I'm more persuaded by my 'for' reasons, though... None of these are close to legitimate reasonings even a little bit. -So you restrict gay marriage because it doesn't seem "normal"? There's so much wrong with this.. Is it not "normal" simply because gay people are a minority, or because many people don't approve of it? Goths are a minority too - Why not ban their various forms of expression? -well, it really shouldn't be any of your business.. I don't care whether or not you see the point in me doing anything I do as long as I'm not harming you.. How does that keep you on the fence? -Human Shielding was legal in Israel up until 2005... I could go down the list of various things that were/are legal and illegal that need/needed to be fixed. Also, what's your definition of "fine"? Is it "fine" to restrict a minority group in your country from marrying? Is it fine to force them to keep their lives a secret for fear of being socially ostracized? Yeah, I suppose it's fine for the rest of society if you totally mistreat a statistically small group of people.. I'm personally unaffected by the treatment of gay people like many others. The question is, what will it take for that minority group to change the situation from "fine" to dire so you care? I think it'd be a lot smarter to give people rights instead of backing them into a corner when they aren't hurting you. When I'm "on the fence" about something, it's usually because there are legitimate perspectives from both vantage points that are all reasonable things to consider.. "It isn't normal", "it's been illegal", and "I, don't see the point" are all less than legitimate.. Christians have more solid reasons to be on the fence about the subject - Their holy text clearly states it's wrong, and they have eternal damnation to worry about and souls to save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkt Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Well that was the only part of MY response you responded to... Uhh, except it's not. I responded to your entire against portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piticent Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Oh. I didn't read the rest. I was too lazy and thought that you were stating you're own personal reasons, not objecting to mine :P Anyway, I have my opinion and you guys have yours. It's obvious that I'm wording my responses too inapproriately and immaturely for this forum, and therefore to prevent it from turning into an arguement, I will not be responding anymore. Any questions/comments/complaints, PM me wih the topic subject as the PM subject. Thanks, and bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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