Rommy Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The ninth amendment is a tricky part of the constitution. "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." It has such a general background to it that there are countless interpretations. The way I see it, the people are allowed to do anything that the Constitution does not talk about or limit. But many people would object to my viewpoint obviously. Over the centuries, it has been attacked constantly and supported by those usually championing or trying to deny some "right". Pro-choice have stated that since the Constitution does not say anything about abortion, they are allowed to have abortions. Before the 13th-15th amendments, many slave owners pushed that because the Constitution did not address black rights, black people had no rights. See how easy it is to play with the words of the amendment? In my opinion, the Constitution needs to be scrapped or at the least undergo much rewriting. Too much in the United States government is about political fighting and who has jurisdiction over what and who can do that. There needs to be a huge colon cleansing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice ☮ Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just thought I'd pipe in here (being gay myself) and add that no matter how many rights are taken away, be to marry, to serve, to adopt (not really a right, but anyway...), no one can ever take away someone's love. And that's what it's all about really, telling people who to love, who not to love... We're going to keep on loving whether it's official in a marriage certificate or not :wub_anim: (Also, I'd like to add that here in Canada, I've never faced any problems regarding this issue. Marry, serve, adopt, heck, I could do all three! :laughingsmiley:) And anyone who objects to gay marriage has a right to their opinion, just as I have a right to disagree :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome Back Apathy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Heeeeeey, everybody! Guess what I just learned? I learned that apparently, Steve Jobs (may he rest in peace) is burning in hell because his Apple products pushed a gay agenda, or as WBC says...well, you know what, I'm not using their words. It hurts too much. Steve Jobs will be unable to rest in peace, as the Westboro Baptist Church will be picketing his funeral. (This is not certain; this is just according to a tweet from a WBC family member.) This should honestly be interesting...they've never picketed the funeral of someone who has a million times as much money they have, have they? The security within miles of the funeral will likely be heightened, Apple can hire the best lawyers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice ☮ Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Heeeeeey, everybody! Guess what I just learned? I learned that apparently, Steve Jobs (may he rest in peace) is burning in hell because his Apple products pushed a gay agenda, or as WBC says...well, you know what, I'm not using their words. It hurts too much. Steve Jobs will be unable to rest in peace, as the Westboro Baptist Church will be picketing his funeral. (This is not certain; this is just according to a tweet from a WBC family member.) This should honestly be interesting...they've never picketed the funeral of someone who has a million times as much money they have, have they? The security within miles of the funeral will likely be heightened, Apple can hire the best lawyers... Anyone remember one of the original Apple logos? A bit of foreshadowing, perhaps :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuika Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Just thought I'd pipe in here (being gay myself) and add that no matter how many rights are taken away, be to marry, to serve, to adopt (not really a right, but anyway...), no one can ever take away someone's love. And that's what it's all about really, telling people who to love, who not to love... We're going to keep on loving whether it's official in a marriage certificate or not :wub_anim: (Also, I'd like to add that here in Canada, I've never faced any problems regarding this issue. Marry, serve, adopt, heck, I could do all three! :laughingsmiley:) And anyone who objects to gay marriage has a right to their opinion, just as I have a right to disagree :P Yes, but the problem is that without marriage, we can't get equal rights; not really. It's not a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of law. Lucky Canadians. : P Heeeeeey, everybody! Guess what I just learned? I learned that apparently, Steve Jobs (may he rest in peace) is burning in hell because his Apple products pushed a gay agenda, or as WBC says...well, you know what, I'm not using their words. It hurts too much. Steve Jobs will be unable to rest in peace, as the Westboro Baptist Church will be picketing his funeral. (This is not certain; this is just according to a tweet from a WBC family member.) This should honestly be interesting...they've never picketed the funeral of someone who has a million times as much money they have, have they? The security within miles of the funeral will likely be heightened, Apple can hire the best lawyers... Haha WHAT? Well, I'll give them one thing--they generally do get the attention they crave. They enjoy being a joke. I can't even bring myself to be offended, it's just so pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 The WBC are low excuses for human beings that know they're the laughing stock of the world and think it makes them important because people are at least paying attention to them. They aren't even worth discussing because nobody in the world takes them seriously. In my opinion it's not even worth getting mad over. But they do have a point with the whole "Steve Jobs gay agenda" thing. I got my first iPod in the summer between 5th and 6th grade. That same summer I started to realize my homosexuality. Coincidence? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emohairx Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hm at the end of the day love is love marriage is fine but i don't believe they should be able to adopt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice ☮ Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hm at the end of the day love is love marriage is fine but i don't believe they should be able to adopt. Do you have any specific valid reason(s) for why we shouldn't be able to adopt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Is Somewhere Else Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I think it's the people's choice to marry whoever they like (as long as they're not with someone else) and not anyone else's. And it would be strange for adopted children to be brought up by two mums or two dads, but they would understand when they're older and can make their own choice who they like. However, they might get teased and bullied by other people with parents that are each the opposite gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuika Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I think it's the people's choice to marry whoever they like (as long as they're not with someone else) and not anyone else's. And it would be strange for adopted children to be brought up by two mums or two dads, but they would understand when they're older and can make their own choice who they like. However, they might get teased and bullied by other people with parents that are each the opposite gender. How is raising a child with same sex parents any more "strange" than a single parent, or being raised by your grandparents? I was raised by one father and one mother, and I really don't think I turned out any better than someone raised by a different combination. Kids will get bullied for any reason. I remember in primary school kids would pick fun at my last name of all things. I was also picked on for being poor, which is actually something you can control to a point, but my parents were still allowed to have kids and probably could even have gotten foster children despite their low income...should my parents not have been allowed to have children because of this? Or because their children might need braces or glasses? Or because they may grow up fat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Is Somewhere Else Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 How is raising a child with same sex parents any more "strange" than a single parent, or being raised by your grandparents? I was raised by one father and one mother, and I really don't think I turned out any better than someone raised by a different combination. Kids will get bullied for any reason. I remember in primary school kids would pick fun at my last name of all things. I was also picked on for being poor, which is actually something you can control to a point, but my parents were still allowed to have kids and probably could even have gotten foster children despite their low income...should my parents not have been allowed to have children because of this? Or because their children might need braces or glasses? Or because they may grow up fat? Well I would rather be a single parent, to show that I can be. You don't even have to be married anymore. I'm just saying that two people of the same gender can bring up a child if they want to, but they'll have to be prepared to sort out any bullying problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome Back Apathy Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well I would rather be a single parent, to show that I can be. You don't even have to be married anymore. I'm just saying that two people of the same gender can bring up a child if they want to, but they'll have to be prepared to sort out any bullying problems. Simple. Adopt a kid with incredibly athletic genes. With muscles like those, no one would DARE make fun of their parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Hm at the end of the day love is love marriage is fine but i don't believe they should be able to adopt. Thanks for reviving the topic. If you had waited one more day to post this, it would have been locked! But what is your reasoning for thinking this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 One of my friends mum and girlfriend raised her. She is one of the most popular girls in school. I don't thinking being raised by gay parents matters that much anymore. It's slowly turning to the point where people that make fun of gays are the one's being targeted. I hope one day that everyone can realize you can't help who you love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 The idea that we shouldn't allow kids to be raised by same-sex couples because they might get bullied for it is ludicrous.. that implies that any bully who would poke fun at a kid for having such a family setup is being hostile because of a legitimate opposition to LGBT rights and that the bully wouldn't make fun of the kid were it not for his same-sex parents. That argument is stupid and illogical. If a kid doesn't have gay parents, then he'll get made fun of for being fat, or skinny, or nerdy, or dumb, or gay, or whatever it may be, because that's how kids work. Bullies don't give a crap about the fact that the kid has gay parents; they give a crap about the fact that they see him as an easy target to raise their own self-esteem. Bullying itself is what needs to be fought. It's like a Kudzu vine. Getting rid of gay parents is like chopping off one little segment of the vine. Sure, you stop that part of the plant from growing, you stop that aspect of bullying, but as soon as you do so, a new vine pops up in another place and kids are getting bullied for another reason. Trying to fight bullying by eliminating the reasons kids are targeted is such a stupid idea. We need to tackle the problem at its roots as best as we can, not just cut off the tips of the vines and hope it somehow makes any significant amount of progress at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome Back Apathy Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The idea that we shouldn't allow kids to be raised by same-sex couples because they might get bullied for it is ludicrous.. that implies that any bully who would poke fun at a kid for having such a family setup is being hostile because of a legitimate opposition to LGBT rights and that the bully wouldn't make fun of the kid were it not for his same-sex parents. That argument is stupid and illogical. If a kid doesn't have gay parents, then he'll get made fun of for being fat, or skinny, or nerdy, or dumb, or gay, or whatever it may be, because that's how kids work. Bullies don't give a crap about the fact that the kid has gay parents; they give a crap about the fact that they see him as an easy target to raise their own self-esteem. Bullying itself is what needs to be fought. It's like a Kudzu vine. Getting rid of gay parents is like chopping off one little segment of the vine. Sure, you stop that part of the plant from growing, you stop that aspect of bullying, but as soon as you do so, a new vine pops up in another place and kids are getting bullied for another reason. Trying to fight bullying by eliminating the reasons kids are targeted is such a stupid idea. We need to tackle the problem at its roots as best as we can, not just cut off the tips of the vines and hope it somehow makes any significant amount of progress at all. I definitely agree--it's like validating the reasons for bullying. When you make a law that says that gay parents can't adopt because of fear, the bullies have won. Plus, once something happens more and more commonly, it becomes more and more mainstream. The more gay parents there are, the less bullying there will be. April is from Canada, I noticed, and she says she doesn't see the bullying happen so much--that's because since the law has recognized homosexuality, it is a real thing, and over the years it becomes more accepted. However, I would just like to point out--Jeppers is the one who said that kids might get bullied, but she never said that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt--just that they should be prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice ☮ Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 ^I agree, but would just like to add one more point. Saying that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt because children raised by gay parents might be bullied is like saying: children with glasses should not be allowed to wear them since they might get bullied, parents who are poor should not be allowed to conceive (because of potential bullying of their offspring), and children shouldn't be raised by single-parents, grandparents, relatives or adoptive parents either, for the same reason. It's ludicrous. It's the bullying that is the problem, not gay parents. But here in Canada, I find that the majority of people agree that witholding rights from the LGBT community is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oh, I know. I was just trying to refute that argument in general, not her necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Is Somewhere Else Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 ^I agree, but would just like to add one more point. Saying that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt because children raised by gay parents might be bullied is like saying: children with glasses should not be allowed to wear them since they might get bullied, parents who are poor should not be allowed to conceive (because of potential bullying of their offspring), and children shouldn't be raised by single-parents, grandparents, relatives or adoptive parents either, for the same reason. It's ludicrous. It's the bullying that is the problem, not gay parents. But here in Canada, I find that the majority of people agree that witholding rights from the LGBT community is ludicrous. You're right about that. It's just that I get bullied lots and people make fun of thngs like that. No matter how much you try, they will never truly understand that it doesn't matter about the person's life, it's their personality that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuika Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's just that I get bullied lots and people make fun of thngs like that. No matter how much you try, they will never truly understand that it doesn't matter about the person's life, it's their personality that counts. Yes, that's right. You just refuted your own argument, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eel Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 When I started reading this topic I'd planned to talk about why I support gay marriage. But I decided not to - for one, I'd probably just be repeating what's already been said. To be honest, though, mostly I'm getting tired of hearing the same things over and over - the children! the sanctity of marriage! Leviticus! - and saying the same things in response. I feel like we never really address the root of the problem. Someone who says "Gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it won't give children good homes" doesn't really care about the state of our children - if they did they would be raising hell about the foster system and the lack of support for working mothers. Someone who says "Gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it will undermine straight marriage" doesn't really care about how marriage is viewed today - if they did they would be talking about couples' counseling, and how marriage shouldn't be rushed into or out of. Someone who says "Gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because the Bible condemns it" doesn't really care about what the Bible says - if they did they would spend time studying it and discussing it and maybe letting it change them, instead of changing it to suit themselves. If any of these reasons were the real reason people opposed gay marriage, we would see those people doing other things inspired by those same reasons. But we don't, because the reality is backwards. People don't oppose gay marriage because of these reasons, they've found these reasons to support their opposition. From my experience the real reason someone is against gay marriage, or discriminatory against LGBTQs in other ways, is one of two: it's a bigotry they've been raised with, in their family and society, and so they have a knee-jerk "that's wrong" reaction which they then scramble to back up with "everyone knows" kinds of facts; or they've discovered that hating and belittling and denying rights to someone makes them feel powerful and better than everyone else, and they've latched onto gays as their personal scapegoat. Either way, lobbying the same points back and forth is not going to change anyone's mind. Nowadays I simply try to lead by example. I'm here, I'm queer, and you can get used to it, or be ignored, because I've got better things to do than listen to you justifying your own petty prejudices. (Like sleeping. G'night, all. Hope you enjoyed my $0.02.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Is Somewhere Else Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I don't like how it's made fun of even on TV. TV shows make fun of a lot of things that it's wrong to make fun of. And what good is that for the people who watch those shows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terminator Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 gay people shouldn't have marriage or even act like a couple in public. it makes real marriages look like a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 gay people shouldn't have marriage or even act like a couple in public. it makes real marriages look like a joke. All right. I respect your opinion. But do you mind me asking what your reasons are for feeling this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terminator Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 i really doubt you respect my opinion. but my reasoning: humans are made for reproducing. gay people can't reproduce. look at a firefly. it lives 24 hours. what does it do in that time? it reproduces. look at a female ferret. if she goes into heat and can't find a mate, she'll die. so by marrying gay people we are going against the purpose of life . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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