Going too far?

[Dcoolb]

I was in a debate at my school, and it was on a very personal matter, (praying in school) and there was another kid who totally went to far on a kid when he agreed. To the point where the screaming and fighting made the teacher send the kid out. I think that there is debating, and there is calling people out or going to far. I think that there is and would like for others opinions. Do you think there is a line? Or that debates can go as far as they can?

[Lia Seeya]

I think there is a line when it comes to debating. When a person's argument comes from mostly personal bias rather than research, facts and actual points, they may be dancing on the line already. However, there are times when that line can be blurred, such as the case of debating over a rather personal issue.

 

But I think when one debater begins screaming and fighting, the line has most definitely been crossed. I think even small debates require a certain level of professionalism, and a certain amount of respect for your opponent and their ideas. Screaming at them and fighting with them doesn't seem to reflect that level of professionalism or respect.

 

^_^ My thoughts on it.

[fallen_angel_1331]

Even if what the kid was screaming was based on facts and research it just sounds like he was having a well thought out temper tantrum. I believe how you present your side of the debate is just as important on the information you provide.

[Rose_682]

As much as I want to respond to this topic, I need to say this, or my brain will explode. When you say "too" meaning also, PLEASE spell it with both Os. Sorry... That was such a glaring error that I found it very difficult to focus on the post. EDIT: Yes, I am a person who cannot read locally published books because of the spelling errors. >.<

 

Ok, now on to the topic at hand.

 

Personally, I think that extremely sensitive matters should be kept to adult debates, and not given to teenagers, who are not developed enough emotionally to deal with issues of a personal nature being discussed and debated in school. Religious debates should ALWAYS be kept out of schools. There are too many different belief systems to have a religious issue put into a school.

 

As for the behavior you described, that is conduct unbecoming a debate student, no matter the age. Debates are to be carried out with a calm demeanor, and based entirely on facts gathered for just that purpose. Of course, there will always be an amount of bias, as the debaters are, in all actuality, human, and so will always color the facts they find to work in their favor.

 

I debated in high school. One of the issues at hand was whether or not the internet restrcitions at the school were tough enough (or too tough, whatever the case may be). It took me less than 5 minutes to find out they were not, but I still had to gather more facts, and do more research to be able to present my case. As a result of my efforts, the schools internet restrictions were greatly increased a year later. However, to my chagrin, they had made it much more difficult to find some information that was actually pertinent to lessons.

 

There are pros and cons to every debate, but no matter what side you are on, you need to be able to keep a level head, so that you can effectively deliver your side of the argument. Yelling and screaming at someone is not effective. It not only puts people on the defensive, but, because your head is not cool, you will have issues finding questions for rebuttal after your opposition has stated their case. Not only that, but you will more than likely have yourself disqualified in any normal debate setting.

 

Debating on a personal matter is not suggested, unless you absolutely have to, as it is much easier for you to cross the line of a calm, objective debate, and end up basically proving nothing except that you are incapable of keeping your emotions in check. Oh, and making a fool out of yourself in the process.

 

There is definitely a line to cross in a proper debate setting, and the person you are talking about definitely crossed it.

[Featherstar]

As the people above me have stated, there definitely is a line.

 

I guess my 'contribution' to the topic is just to give that line a clearer name: Debate vs. Argue.

 

 

If you think about it, debating is exactly arguing, only in a professional and calm setting. When you take away the elements that make debate different from arguing, that's when the line has been crossed. C:

[Katlyn]

I think there is a line, and it's crossed when someone takes a comment personally. As long as people remember that the whole point of a debate is to express a difference in opinions or beliefs, it's fine. The kid that got sent out of class definitely took it too far. He could have kept his cool and expressed his opinion on the matter, but clearly he wasn't in control of his emotions.

[Airiya]

As someone mentioned before there is a difference between Debate vs. Argue that not many people are aware of.

I remember when I joined a Debate Team in high school just to check it out, I was really surprised.

 

Not only you have to present the judges and other team with actual facts/statistics rather than personal opinion, but you have to keep a leveled tone

and also, the other team can not interrupt when it is the other team's turn.

 

Now if someone were to yell out the facts and such, it's almost like giving a bias opinion because you are presenting the information in a non neutral way in a sense.

There is definitely a line when it comes to debating. I guess it just takes practice when it comes to a more profession presentation.

[Olivia_D]

There is no need to yell and screamed at. Some of the most convincing arguments are said with a quieter voice. Resorting to yelling and fighting is just desperate and definitely crosses a line.

[Tank Girl]

 

Personally, I think that extremely sensitive matters should be kept to adult debates, and not given to teenagers, who are not developed enough emotionally to deal with issues of a personal nature being discussed and debated in school.

 

 

I'm sorry but that's a load of bull. Of course teenagers are developed enough emotionally to have a debate about personal subjects (even the extreme ones), especially in school which is a place of learning. The hotheadedness of the boy we're talking about doesn't reflect the reactions of the millions of other teenagers in the world, and to assume that teenagers aren't developed enough to cope with the nitty gritty is wrong. There are many many mature and well rounded teenagers able to cope with discussing personal issues, as I'm sure there any many adults who cannot.

Another thing (and I'm sure quite a few parents would agree with me on this one) is that when teenagers are surrounded by their peers they are more likely to be themselves. If personal issues are debated and talked about in schools, not only will the teen feel more confident and accepted, if a teacher feels that there is anything wrong, or something that needs to be addressed they can alert the parents. When a parent sits down with a teenager and tries to talk about personal stuff I doubt they would react the same way or say the same things as they would in class.

Plus the fact that by limiting the information and freedom of speech we give our children we are pulling the wool over their eyes and not preparing them for life after they graduate.

 

I'm not having a go here, I just hate it when people generalise millions of individuals. And although I'm technically an adult, I am still a teenager ^_^

[Ice Pets]

Honestly, if people are going to get offended by religion, then they aren't capable to debate religion.

[mustardbeanie]

I agree with Tank Girl. When you are a teenager/young adult you form a lot of your world views, one of the best ways of doing that is through hearing and taking on the opinions of others. What better place to do that than somewhere that is all about education rather than prejudice or ignorance, such as school? Learning how to debate and respect other people's opinions is part of developing an open mind, and forming your own unbiased, educated opinions. I also think it's the best way of forming opinions on complex/sensitive issues like religion.

[selusa]

This topic reminds me of last night's episode of Survivor (don't worry guys, there is a point forthcoming), in which Phillip was having an argument with Steve and the former turned an argument about rice distribution into a racially-fueled attack against his person. Phillip (who is black) went into an impressively vigorous tirade about how Steve's (who is white) comments about Phil's demands were nothing less than Steve tossing around the "N" word at him, and all the while Steve was sitting there with a bewildered look on his face, wondering how on earth the topic had jumped from rice to race.

 

Anyway, my point being that if, in the midst of a debate or argument, one side starts taking stuff being said personally and turns their opponent's words into a direct attack on their person, that's when the line is crossed. If a debate/argument (and I'm using the two terms together because a debate, in my mind, is an educated discussion, with facts and sources to back up your points, whereas an argument can still be a rational disagreement with both sides making good points, but perhaps lacking in evidence and facts) gets heated and one or both parties start to raise their voices and get passionate and emotional about their cause, then I say more power to them. As long as the debaters are fighting fairly and don't start taking everything their opponent says personally, then I think there's room for shouting and getting loud. It serves to show the other side your passion for your stance on the issue, and if it's a 'fair fight', so to speak (both sides are equally passionate, and one isn't drowning out the other and not letting him or her get a word in edgewise), then why not let the debaters go all out?

 

I've had experiences where I've argued with someone and she began to get frustrated and started to belittle me about everything from my age (I'm a teenager, so obviously I know nothing about anything) to my intellect (and since I'm a teenager, I obviously don't know what "self-aggrandizing" means), even though I tried to bring her back to the original topic at hand (which was religion, I think). You can't argue with someone if your opponent basically stops listening to you and starts attacking you or twisting your words. To me, that's when the line between debate and irrational disputation is crossed, and not when things get heated and maybe a little bit loud.

[brandongamer]

I was in a debate at my school, and it was on a very personal matter, (praying in school) and there was another kid who totally went to far on a kid when he agreed. To the point where the screaming and fighting made the teacher send the kid out. I think that there is debating, and there is calling people out or going to far. I think that there is and would like for others opinions. Do you think there is a line? Or that debates can go as far as they can?

When someone starts to yell over a debate, then that draws the line and you should stop debating with that person.

[DearlyStars]

Personal attacks and yelling is arguing, not debating. Anyone who stars screaming or throwing insults at you in a debate does not show enough respect to debate with!

[Duckyz]

I agree with brandongamer a debate ends when the other person loses their cool, it is pointless to continue once someone loses focus.

 

I'm sorry but that's a load of bull. Of course teenagers are developed enough emotionally to have a debate about personal subjects (even the extreme ones), especially in school which is a place of learning. The hotheadedness of the boy we're talking about doesn't reflect the reactions of the millions of other teenagers in the world, and to assume that teenagers aren't developed enough to cope with the nitty gritty is wrong. There are many many mature and well rounded teenagers able to cope with discussing personal issues, as I'm sure there any many adults who cannot.

Another thing (and I'm sure quite a few parents would agree with me on this one) is that when teenagers are surrounded by their peers they are more likely to be themselves. If personal issues are debated and talked about in schools, not only will the teen feel more confident and accepted, if a teacher feels that there is anything wrong, or something that needs to be addressed they can alert the parents. When a parent sits down with a teenager and tries to talk about personal stuff I doubt they would react the same way or say the same things as they would in class.

Plus the fact that by limiting the information and freedom of speech we give our children we are pulling the wool over their eyes and not preparing them for life after they graduate.

 

I'm not having a go here, I just hate it when people generalise millions of individuals. And although I'm technically an adult, I am still a teenager

Religion is a really touchy subject, if possible I try to avoid any political/religious as they almost always end bad. I agree with Rose_682 that some subjects should be left out of school but her reasons were wrong.Schools like Catholic schools accept students that are not Catholic and will note down that they are not Catholic and they don't participate with anything Catholic. If schools could teach a religion without affecting someone else's religion I would take back what I said but there is so many differences between the two that wars are fought over religion.

 

I agree with Tank Girl. When you are a teenager/young adult you form a lot of your world views, one of the best ways of doing that is through hearing and taking on the opinions of others. What better place to do that than somewhere that is all about education rather than prejudice or ignorance, such as school? Learning how to debate and respect other people's opinions is part of developing an open mind, and forming your own unbiased, educated opinions. I also think it's the best way of forming opinions on complex/sensitive issues like religion

I sort've agree but a classroom isn't the best place to be to discuss this. If people can talk about it without influencing others on what they believe then I don't see the harm in discussing it, but once you start adding peer pressure someone can lose their open mind.

[Khelddar]

Yer there is a line and once you cross it and everyone is just yelling at each other that is just called politics

[selusa]

Religion is a really touchy subject, if possible I try to avoid any political/religious as they almost always end bad...If people can talk about it without influencing others on what they believe then I don't see the harm in discussing it, but once you start adding peer pressure someone can lose their open mind.

 

I'm sorry, what? You're saying that in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings or influencing others, you should just keep silent on the issue? Avoiding an uncomfortable or divisible issue has never solved anything. Besides, isn't the point of a debate to try and make a good argument about why your side is the better one? You're basically saying that everyone in high school (or anywhere else, for that matter) has a mind like play-doh that will immediately mold to whoever dishes out their opinion first. Please try to treat teenagers with a bit of respect -- just because someone states their opinion doesn't mean they're immediately going to get in line behind that person and convert their entire belief system. I've been out of high school for 2 years, but I know that even in middle school I wouldn't have been so easily swayed by an exuberant debater.

[Olivia_D]

There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion and debating it as long as your respectful about it. If you start hurting people just to prove a point then you have gone too far, but if you just disagree with someone, that's totally fine. I actually just had a debate in English to practice persuasion. It was civil and respectful, the way an argument should be.

[hipy_chicky]

I don't think believe religion is something that should be freely debated. Not because it's an uncomfortable issue, but because I truly think that you can't prove one side to be better than another. Its all based on personal belief, not concrete evidence so there's no way to draw a conclusion and prove that x person makes the better point. Everyone will always be divided on the issue.

 

But anyway.... yes, there's definitely a fine line between debating and attacking someones beliefs.

 

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