Macs = No Viruses?

[Unstream]

So I recently ordered a MacBook and I should be getting it sometime later this week. I've also heard they can't get viruses. But at the same time, I found AV software for Macs, and I was always kinda skeptical of that claim to begin with. So does anybody know whether Macs can really get viruses? If not, what makes them impervious to them?

[CAV of Gang Green]

They say they can't get viruses. But I'm pretty sure that they're saying that they can't get the viruses Windows gets. I'm sure that there are viruses for Macs. But I don't know. I don't own a Mac.

[Noog]

I'm unsure the exact reason why, but macs in fact, do not get viruses. It's said to be impossible, and I know several people with unprotected macs who have never gotten a virus.

 

I'm sure AA will be here before tomorrow to give you the technical answer. ;)

[Shane for Wax]

Actually, macs get viruses. They can get viruses easily (I use the term loosely) . It's just the fact that not enough people use Macs to justify making a virus that attacks both or targeted at macs, at least. So many more people use PCs, so it's not a waste of time to make a virus for a PC than a mac. However, there ARE some out there for Macs. Just do a quick google search for Mac Viruses.

 

There are some for Macs, just not as many for PC, for those TL;DR people.

 

TBH, I'm tired of Mac owners claiming they cannot get viruses at all. It's just a fact of it being rare.

[hrtbrk]

My sister got a virus on her macbook. She assumed that it came from Facebook.

As long as you know what you're viewing & downloading, no one should worry about viruses IMO.

[Shane for Wax]

Going without virus/malware/etc., protection while surfing the internet is like unprotected you-know-what with strangers. It's just safer to use the computer condoms. (can I get in trouble for that word?_

[Noog]

I have a friend who has never had any trouble on his mac and he goes to plenty of websites and downloads just about anything.

 

After the answers above, I would suggest that you get the protection if you can afford it without a problem. If getting the protection might cause an issue, possibly financially, I would just watch the websites you visit closely.

[-Ryan]

@Shane: I doubt it as you were using it to help sum up your point. -shrug-

 

 

And yeah, I doubt theres any computer where you're 100% safe from malcious programs without anti-virus software, and if there is not for long...

 

 

 

Also, -Pokes what Noog said- AA knows all.

[Shane for Wax]

My friends in the tech industry summed it up nicely: No matter what OS you use, you can still be at risk of computer viruses and malware. Even Linux and other OS's you hear about.

 

There are lots of basic free Anti-virus software out there for you to pick up. I suggest you get it ASAP. Even if you go only to two sites, they can be hacked and viruses loaded onto it, etc., etc.,

 

So yeah. Even with mac you're at risk. Even with Linux you're at risk. Just not as much as Windows. :)

[Masaryk]

Of course Macs can get viruses. There are very few viruses written to attack Mac OS directly. However, many viruses are written to infiltrate specific scripts (the bits of code that make up programs or applications), so as long as you install such things as web browsers, office software, Java, Flash, video players, etc., you can still get a virus on a Mac.

 

I took a screenshot of the origins of the viruses that my virus scanner protects against. Notice how many of the viruses are aimed at office, scripts, and Java? Many of those will still target programs installed on Macs.

 

 

I will always suggest using an antivirus program, no matter what kind of computer you have, which OS you are running, and how safe you think you are on the internet. Download a free one (good but not great) or, if you have a little bit of extra money, I highly recommend the antivirus that I'm using (F-Prot). A home licence is only $29 USD per year, it's not a resource hog, and it's good for six computers.

[antiaircraft]

I'm sure AA will be here before tomorrow to give you the technical answer. ;)

Also, -Pokes what Noog said- AA knows all.

xD I'm glad I'm on time. I'll see what I can do to explain a bit, although I think everyone else has almost everything covered anyway.

 

In short, yes, Macs can get viruses. Macs are computers. No computer is unhackable, and once a computer system is connected to a network, I can guarantee you that there is someone, somewhere, with the smarts to figure out how to break into it using that network.

 

That said, some computer systems are more vulnerable than others. There's the architecture to consider, how the OS is built plays a major part in how resistant it is to attacks. There's also the popularity factor. Windows, being the most popular desktop user OS out there, and also fairly common on servers, provides a very large surface area for attack, and quite a lot of incentive for it. Macs, on the other hand, have benefited (and probably still benefit) from a phenomenon known as 'security through obscurity'. They're less common (not to mention rarely used in servers and other mission-critical systems) than Windows, and as such there are less people motivated to find vulnerabilities in the Mac OS. Additionally (and this applies to Windows as well), the Mac OS is developed in a closed source fashion. Nobody else is allowed to see or tweak the source code, or get involved in its development.

 

Allow me to emphasise, as a person who follows many development projects closely, that almost all competent programmers will agree that security through obscurity is not a thing to be relied upon. Sure, it might help keep your users a little safer, but fundamentally it means that your system is not actually secure, you just don't know what the problems are because there aren't that many people looking.

 

In contrast, in free and open source software projects, contributors from all over the world are encouraged to pitch in, check out the source code, and report problems (security and otherwise) that they discover. They can even help to develop the solutions. This is why, for example, web browsers developed by open source projects (like Firefox and Chrome) are so much more secure than their closed source counterparts (like Internet Explorer). This also applies to operating systems like Linux, but I'll add more on that later.

 

In conclusion:

- Macs can and will get viruses.

- However, at present they are usually less likely to do so than Windows systems.

 

And now for some appendices. As a Linux geek, I just have to respond to this:

My friends in the tech industry summed it up nicely: No matter what OS you use, you can still be at risk of computer viruses and malware. Even Linux and other OS's you hear about.

 

There are lots of basic free Anti-virus software out there for you to pick up. I suggest you get it ASAP. Even if you go only to two sites, they can be hacked and viruses loaded onto it, etc., etc.,

 

So yeah. Even with mac you're at risk. Even with Linux you're at risk. Just not as much as Windows. :)

I will always suggest using an antivirus program, no matter what kind of computer you have, which OS you are running, and how safe you think you are on the internet.

Just a little preface: I'm not saying Linux is immune to malware, but it sure is tough.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the Linux development model is very, very different to that employed by other, more popular operating systems. Linux was built, from the ground up, by programmers, for programmers, with security and many other important programmer-y things in mind. As a result, the basic structure of the Linux operating system is just a lot more secure than that of its competitors. Things like dynamic access control and software privileges are built into the base of most modern Linux distributions, making them very secure indeed. There are plenty of Linux viruses out there, but there are very few 'in the wild' (i.e. actually working). This is largely because the open source development model means that any new security vulnerabilities that are discovered (even if they're discovered by somebody who immediately decides to exploit them) are fixed within a couple of weeks, usually only a few days in fact. New malware just gets patched into extinction.

 

Additionally, Linux is a tried and tested server OS, used on many, many mission-critical systems around the world (NASA's computers, enterprise servers, datacenters, TDN's web servers - I could go on and on). Think about it: given a choice, what would the world's truly expert hackers (black hat or otherwise) be targeting? That's right, not desktop systems, but servers, where all the big, bad, important stuff is kept. Linux has survived the test of time in many of the Internet's harshest conditions, and it has only become tougher in the process. If somebody tells you that Linux only seems secure because it's not that popular, remember this counterpoint.

 

As a result of the very different infrastructure it's built on, the security models in Linux systems are very different from those you see on Windows and Macs. You don't really use anti-virus software. The only real use for such stuff on Linux systems is to scan data passing through the system to make sure you don't let any bad stuff get through to users of other operating systems (this is particularly important in e-mail servers). Instead, you can rely on a variety of measures built into the base of the operating system, like access control, privileges, the iptables firewall, mandatory access control and memory protection systems like SELinux (a project which began as an experiment by the NSA) and AppArmor, and so on.

 

Anyway, yeah. Linux is very secure. :P

[Shane for Wax]

Very secure =/= completely immune, though. It's wrong to say otherwise.

 

 

I think the point is clear, use the bloody protection so you don't pay for it in the morning and have to try to use the morning after pill. Even though it is fun to play 'kill the virus' and make pew pew noises if one does slip by your defenses.

[Unstream]

Okay, so now that it's established that Mac's aren't impervious to viruses, I guess you guys can help me with deciding with program to use.

 

I can get the Norton that comes free with Comcast. I don't know whether or not it's actually any good or not though. Or whether it's better than other ones I could get for free. Any advice?

 

Thanks for all the help everyone :D

[Masaryk]

Personally, I don't really like Norton. I find it uses far more system resources than is acceptable. But, since you're getting it for free, you can always try it out to see if you like it.

 

I would be recommending F-Prot, but they don't seem to have a Mac version. I'm still recommending it anyone running Windows (see my previous post).

[Shane for Wax]

AVG anti-virus is good enough for me. Ad-Aware is also good to have around.

[Batman]

Ok i would like to make it known that they have literally tested which is easier to hack into a mac or a pc. It takes the same amount of time to get into each. I believe the program of chose for the hackers was adobe acrobat. So no matter what OS you use it is what is on the computer that makes it vulnerable. The reason why PCs get hacked more often then Mac is because Mac only holds 7% of the market. So why would a hacker make a program that affects so few people.

 

I love Microsoft Security Essentials. It does a great job and doesn't bog down the computer while it is running. Plus who can beat free software that does its job well.

[Noog]

I've had a bit of trouble in the past with Norton. Shane has suggested a decent one, AVG, but this year at school our AVG -protected computers got hacked with several viruses that almost lost us a whole computer lab.

 

I find McAfee to be pretty good, and I understand that they have it for macs.

[Shane for Wax]

Norton is a horrible suite to have on your computer. It messes things up.

 

Might I suggest Avast? It's pretty good.

[Tyler.]

I use McAfee and my sister uses AVG, both have been working great for a few months, and both are also for Macs

Norton just made a virus problem worse for me on my last computer

[antiaircraft]

It's been a long time since I've messed with anti-virus software, so I can't really make any strong positive recommendations. I can, however, recommend against Norton AntiVirus and other Symantec products, as well as those from Trend Micro. I've had very bad experiences with those.

 

Very secure =/= completely immune, though. It's wrong to say otherwise.

No computer is unhackable, and once a computer system is connected to a network, I can guarantee you that there is someone, somewhere, with the smarts to figure out how to break into it using that network.

I'm not saying Linux is immune to malware, but it sure is tough.

I'm glad we agree with each other. ;)

 

I think the point is clear, use the bloody protection so you don't pay for it in the morning and have to try to use the morning after pill. Even though it is fun to play 'kill the virus' and make pew pew noises if one does slip by your defenses.

The point is very clear indeed, although as a guy with some sysadmin experience, I have to disagree on the assertion that dealing with security breaches could be fun in any way.

 

Ok i would like to make it known that they have literally tested which is easier to hack into a mac or a pc. It takes the same amount of time to get into each. I believe the program of chose for the hackers was adobe acrobat. So no matter what OS you use it is what is on the computer that makes it vulnerable. The reason why PCs get hacked more often then Mac is because Mac only holds 7% of the market. So why would a hacker make a program that affects so few people.

Two things:

- Installed software does indeed play a major part in the security of a system. However, an operating system can do its part to make it more difficult for software to do insecure stuff on it, and it can also be designed in a way that restricts the effects of a security breach.

- Macs are proportionally far less popular than Windows PCs, yes, but nevertheless approximately 7% of today's computer market is a very, very big 7%!

 

And I've been reminded of another point I wanted to add:

 

All user-oriented computer systems, no matter how securely they're built, share one major security vulnerability. It's the single common weak link in the chain that's exploited far more than anything else. The vulnerability in question? People like me and you: the user.

 

These computer systems are all built to serve the user, so if the user can be thoroughly convinced to do something, there's nothing the system can ultimately do to stop them. Sure, it can dress in a chicken suit and jump up and down screaming that there's a trojan in the executable they're about to run with administrator privileges, but it's an unfortunate fact that inattentive users will just see this as an annoyance and go right ahead.

 

As a result, techniques known as 'social engineering' have become the single most effective weapon in the arsenals of hackers and crackers all over the Internet and beyond. Why go to all the trouble of figuring out a system's technical weaknesses when you can just trick the user into doing all your work for you? It's that simple.

 

So, it follows that the single most effective defence in the arsenals of users all over the Internet and beyond is common sense. If something seems too good to be true, then it very well might be. If something looks suspicious, well, learn more about it before doing anything that might put your system in danger. Common sense won't protect you from everything, but it'll do far more good than any anti-virus program. Not to mention the fact that it'll help you to maximise the effectiveness of the anti-virus software you decide to use. :yes:

[Unstream]

Well I looked at all the AV programs here and unfortunately they either don't have a Mac version or cost money to install. The only free one I found for Macs is iAntiVirus, and that only checks for Mac-specific viruses. Should I go for that or should I just decide to install Norton?

[Noog]

From what I hear iAntivirus is good at what it does, but it does only stop mac specifics.

 

If it were me I would install iAntivirus. Norton is just horrible.

[Unstream]

Yeah I think I'm going to try that. Apparently Norton was known a "mac destroyer" before :P

 

Well thanks for all the help everyone! I really appreciate everyone's comments :)

[Guest Yoshinho]

Macs can get viruses. All systems are vulnerable to viruses in a way.

[m00fin_hearts_chocolate]

I think you CAN get viruses on macs.My dad's laptop crashed due to a virus on a USB that my sister connected for a project.we tried on a windows computer,it detected the virus and deleted it. so apparently,Mac has less protection,I guess.