Sexism: What do you find sexist?

[apple_couture]

I've always thought that sexism(when it intends to diminish women's integrity) goes both ways, specially when talking about families/societies with pretty old traditions. For example, in some peruvian towns in the mountain area, whenever women are beating up by their husbands, they are not always taken to the police station; in fact, some women when teling their own mothers what hapenned and how do they feel, usually receive a "Well, you must have done something to deserve it" as a response. Not going THAT far, my own grandma is always telling that I should learn how to do the laundry, how to cook, how to keep up the house, and other chores, because if I don't do so, I will never be a "good" woman and no one will ever want to marry me (so funny haha), when I think that her response should be "you have to do so if you want to be independent and I no need of having to rely on someone". Of course this happens due to strong stereotypes of the rol that women play in society, but I do think that sexism mayor agent are the families (as I said so, both men and women).

[Lozzie]

I lol'd. You know when it's Dr Pepper, they're not being serious. It's just like the "Yorkie - it's not for girls" chocolate bar.

That being said, I'm rather disappointed that the facebook page actually 'blocks' you if you are female? I've not tried joining but is that actually true? I believe that to be a step in the wrong direction. Sure, they can make the advert as 'manly' as they want, but by refusing any women to like it especially on facebook (considering it's mass popularity and ability to advertise), is a bit silly - but then again. Perhaps that was their intent?

Perhaps they wanted to provoke such a reaction about their product being sexist, thus attracting more attention?

 

Who knows. Honestly though, I believe it's a bit of an overexaggeration for women to get offended by this advert; it's just an advert for a bottle of juice. I believe adverts to be much along the same lines as contemporary artwork, in the sense that contemporary art is there to provoke a reaction from the viewer, thus many topics can be considered 'playful', and the artist is simply 'toying' with the viewer to see what sort of reaction they're going to get.

 

All in all, I'd say this Dr Pepper advert has done just that and succeeded.

[Vocaloid Marshmallow]

For example, this is sexist, but it's funny so who cares?

 

 

Even though its funny, I feel its kinda insulting. Ugly too.

 

This debate reminds me of Jessie J's song, Do It Like A Dude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKLrCuYZ0M

 

Yeah, it has a few gross words, but its not bad.

 

As for the Dr. Pepper thing, I'd say its not as bad as others, but its quite substandard.

[Trig]

I'm not so much...offended...by the Dr. Pepper add, although I do find it pretty sexist. What I'm more offended by is that the facebook application would block females? I think that's taking it a bit too far (as some people have mentioned). I agree that sometimes sexism can be funny because you can't be 100% serious 100% of the time, you have to let loose and learn to laugh at some things. But then, some things go too far. I also hate gender stereotyping because as "lils" said, she is a girl, who plays games and can't cook. Does that change her gender? No. It's WHO SHE IS. It's her personality, and why does it matter what gender she is if that is what she enjoys doing? Plus, gender stereotyping disregards the fact that gender, just like sexuality, is a spectrum.

[desertshadow75]

I find the commercial to be fairly funny. Is it sexist? Yeah, but they aren't being serious--it's an obvious joke. Their marketing campaign isn't intended to discourage sales from the fairer gender. That would be kind of counterproductive don't ya think?

[neoskulltula]

My take on it is it can't be sexism unless you're serious. Clearly the commercial is a joke. We live in a time where all jokes have to be edgy because being more subtle takes more thinking and can fly over the head of the audience. Family Guy is a perfect example of this. They haven't done any real talented writing since Season 3.

[jadorablack]

Ughhh, sexism. I'm generally past the point of being angry about it, now I'm just... sad. Did you know that women get charged more (in general) for clothing, hygiene products, cars, etc. just because people figure women arent as pushy so they wont do anything about it?

[Trig]

Ughhh, sexism. I'm generally past the point of being angry about it, now I'm just... sad. Did you know that women get charged more (in general) for clothing, hygiene products, cars, etc. just because people figure women arent as pushy so they wont do anything about it?

 

And...this is part of the reason I buy mens t-shirts in a smaller size :) Plus, I'm pretty tomboyish (see what I mean about gender being a spectrum?) so it usually tends to work out anyways. That is really annoying though, but I completely believe it. It's how the media markets (and yes I do mean that literally) women; they are just supposed to be these people that cater to men and can't think for themselves. Luckily the times they are a-changing (Bob Dylan- heh) and these thoughts are really really decreasing but it still pops up every once in a while.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

When the hubby and I moved, we got rid of a lot of toiletries and had to buy completely new things. I went looking for a disposable razor. Turns out, the men's ones were only a third of the price of the women's. So I ended up using some of the hubby's disposable razors instead. They are waaaay better quality. So why do they rip women off on this? And it doesn't matter, because it's the exact same product!

 

Also, I use Old Spice deodorant. Also cheaper than women's deodorant, doesn't leave white powder behind, and smells waaaay better. But I brought it to a rehearsal one night to use, and someone needed to borrow deodorant. I offered mine. She--along with the entire dressing room--acted like a woman using men's deodorant was the most disgusting thing they'd ever heard. She tried to back up her disgust with "scientific" knowledge of how the pH factor is balanced differently for men and women, but that is so inaccurate that it's ridiculous. Eventually, she used it, but with her nose wrinkled, and she didn't thank me. She just made fun of me for using men's deodorant. Woman, I saved money AND smell better than you.

[passiflora]

When the hubby and I moved, we got rid of a lot of toiletries and had to buy completely new things. I went looking for a disposable razor. Turns out, the men's ones were only a third of the price of the women's. So I ended up using some of the hubby's disposable razors instead. They are waaaay better quality. So why do they rip women off on this? And it doesn't matter, because it's the exact same product!

 

Also, I use Old Spice deodorant. Also cheaper than women's deodorant, doesn't leave white powder behind, and smells waaaay better. But I brought it to a rehearsal one night to use, and someone needed to borrow deodorant. I offered mine. She--along with the entire dressing room--acted like a woman using men's deodorant was the most disgusting thing they'd ever heard. She tried to back up her disgust with "scientific" knowledge of how the pH factor is balanced differently for men and women, but that is so inaccurate that it's ridiculous. Eventually, she used it, but with her nose wrinkled, and she didn't thank me. She just made fun of me for using men's deodorant. Woman, I saved money AND smell better than you.

Wow, I never even realized the price factor -- I just use men's deodorant because it smells better. :laughingsmiley: I play(ed) a lot of sports, and lots of girls I know use men's products. It's silly they'd make fun of you! I've heard (?) that men's vs women's might be formulated differently, but hey, if you find one that works for you, why not? :)

 

 

 

I don't think I've experienced any blatant sexism in quite some time, which is nice.

[sarria33]

About Dr. Pepper: I was not aware of that! But the joke is on them; they are loosing 51% of the population with that.

 

I get sad about sexism all the time. Mostly it has to do with how women are portrayed in the media. For example, on so many of my crime solving shows (like NCIS, Burn Notice, In Plain Sight) they make it a point to go to a strip club or a place where women are practically naked. They purposely objectify women and I'm sitting there like I don't want to see this but it is so prevalent.

[Navy]

Dr. Pepper 10 is right, because only 10 year olds would think that's funny.

[moni_rawr]

When the hubby and I moved, we got rid of a lot of toiletries and had to buy completely new things. I went looking for a disposable razor. Turns out, the men's ones were only a third of the price of the women's. So I ended up using some of the hubby's disposable razors instead. They are waaaay better quality. So why do they rip women off on this? And it doesn't matter, because it's the exact same product!

 

Also, I use Old Spice deodorant. Also cheaper than women's deodorant, doesn't leave white powder behind, and smells waaaay better. But I brought it to a rehearsal one night to use, and someone needed to borrow deodorant. I offered mine. She--along with the entire dressing room--acted like a woman using men's deodorant was the most disgusting thing they'd ever heard. She tried to back up her disgust with "scientific" knowledge of how the pH factor is balanced differently for men and women, but that is so inaccurate that it's ridiculous. Eventually, she used it, but with her nose wrinkled, and she didn't thank me. She just made fun of me for using men's deodorant. Woman, I saved money AND smell better than you.

 

I'll have to agree with you on the razors. I've been using "male" razors for years now, although the one that I use is actually more expensive than some female-based ones. They're similar quality to female razors, but I feel like female razors are more for fine hair than thick hair and I've also noticed less razor burn (I have really sensitive skin) when using male razors.

As for the deodorant, I know a handful of men that use female deodorant because they say it works better for them, especially when working out and such. I use male deodorant every once in a while when I can't find a good enough female deodorant that works well. Same goes for male body wash...some of the brands are cheaper than female ones and it's nice to smell a "manly" scent every once in a while rather than the flowery/fruity smell of every female product.

I also buy little boy undershirts, boxers, and shorts because they're BEYOND cheaper than anything in the Junior's section, plus I like wearing basketball shorts for working out and lounging rather than shorts that are almost as short as "hot pants" underwear. It's ridiculous how much clothes cost for females, but then again, society sees us as caring more about what we wear than males do.

 

As for the Dr. Pepper 10 commercial, yes, it is a tad sexist, but it's meant to be more of a joke. Not only that, but (as some people have already stated) dieting products tend to be aimed towards females, and so it's Dr. Pepper's way of finally giving men a dieting item of their own, so to speak. The application that blocks females though is a little out of line. Has any female tried opening the application yet?

There's plenty of commercials that specifically target females...take Nair for example. You never see a male in their commercials using it, but yet there's guys using it anyways. In the case of commercials, it seems as if men don't really tend to care that much who the product is mainly for. Of course, they may not be totally open about using a female product, but they still use it.

[LizyMarie]

Even though its funny, I feel its kinda insulting. Ugly too.

 

This debate reminds me of Jessie J's song, Do It Like A Dude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKLrCuYZ0M

 

Yeah, it has a few gross words, but its not bad.

 

As for the Dr. Pepper thing, I'd say its not as bad as others, but its quite substandard.

 

The song you mentioned is not exactly sexist in the way that photo was. And in fact I'd say that song is empowering to women, saying that we can stand our ground like anyone else can.

(I approve you knowing that song, btw)

 

But when it comes to sexism I find myself between a rock and a hard place.

It's something that will always be there and never go away. Why? Because we all have certain traits and habits preprogrammed into our souls/minds. Females are sortof programmed to be more mentally aware, to the point of paranoia in some cases. And men are sortof programmed to want to protect their mate. Though I may not be on par with my examples, you understand what I am trying to say. Certain things that are used in jokes and memes these days that come off as sexist only seem that way because you are viewing it negatively.

 

Keep in mind I used the word "certain". Not all memes and jokes are quite.... appropriate.

 

Sexism will never go away, or at least not the "sexism" used generally. So I will never quite care about what is sexist or not. Because to me, it's like racism. It's a good humored (or it SHOULD be) joke about a stereotype that race generally fills.

[thunderclanf]

_{I just think the commercial is a little ridiculous....xD It's a little offensive, yeah. But it's too dumb to actually mean anything.}

[cornstar]

I honestly thought the dr pepper commercial was pretty sexist. My girlfriend was heavily offended and swore she would never drink dr. pepper.

 

What I think is sexist is if one thinks what a man and woman are supposed to do. Thats it.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I hold the views that all genders should be equal in every way, yet I choose to live this lifestyle.

 

Chairmanmeow, I believe that equality is about the opportunities afforded to everyone, including the opportunity of choice. I believe that women should have the opportunity of wearing pants, but that doesn't take away our right to wear skirts as well. (I also believe that men should be allowed to wear skirts. Actually, I think everyone should wear skirts, because it's the only way to have an elastic waistband and still look professional!) I believe that women should have the opportunity of being in the workplace, but should they choose to be housewives, that's all right as well.

 

And if men want to be stay-at-home dads, or house-spouses, or whatever...that's perfectly fine.

 

Equality isn't about everyone being the same. It's about everyone having the same opportunities.

[True Ladybex]

I just saw the ad. Um pouring the drink into a glass with ice ... now that looked a little lady-like. Was I offended, nope. I felt sorry for the man, he's not going to get "appreciated by the ladies" in a long time. My experience with sexism has been with men who are weak-willed, and scared of women. I dont know what happened to them so I try not to judge. I just feel sorry for men who have to remind you that they are the man (poor babies).

[Welcome Back Apathy]

All right. I just stumbled upon something so sexist, I have to revive the sexism debate to share it. And I sincerely doubt anyone will disagree with me on this issue, but if you do, you are welcome to explain why.

 

This is sexist against men. Ridiculously so.

 

Man Seated Next to Unaccompanied Minors Forced to Change Seats

 

The gist: Virgin Australia has a policy that says that unaccompanied minors cannot be seated next to men. The best thing is to have them sit alone, but if a man is seated next to them, he has to switch with a woman. They flat-out say that it's for the safety of the children. (The man also was embarrassed because the explanation given to other people on the plane was that HE was not allowed to sit next to children--the policy was not explained--so you can imagine that people thought it was just him, not men in general.)

 

If it's for the safety of the children, why are they traveling unaccompanied? That doesn't sound safe for ten-year-olds at all. And really, who's going to try something onboard? And really, why would they assume that a man is more dangerous than a woman in this respect? How about the fact that molestation of children BY WOMEN goes unreported more often because it's not taken seriously?

[cleomiele]

In regards to the Australian policy, wow...that is definitely sexist. To imply that men are so out of control with their urges--especially around minors--that they legally can't sit near them is kind of shocking. Not to mention the embarrassment for that poor man! People probably thought he was a registered sex offender or something :(

 

I know every country probably has their foolish, half-baked laws, but I'm still sitting here trying to imagine how that was made into law without some serious discrepancy...or were most people like, "Yeah, you know, men are just uncontrollable and we can't risk them sitting next to young people. It's for the protection of men and kids everywhere"? How strange.

[Rebecca~]

All right. I just stumbled upon something so sexist, I have to revive the sexism debate to share it. And I sincerely doubt anyone will disagree with me on this issue, but if you do, you are welcome to explain why.

 

This is sexist against men. Ridiculously so.

 

Man Seated Next to Unaccompanied Minors Forced to Change Seats

 

The gist: Virgin Australia has a policy that says that unaccompanied minors cannot be seated next to men. The best thing is to have them sit alone, but if a man is seated next to them, he has to switch with a woman. They flat-out say that it's for the safety of the children. (The man also was embarrassed because the explanation given to other people on the plane was that HE was not allowed to sit next to children--the policy was not explained--so you can imagine that people thought it was just him, not men in general.)

 

If it's for the safety of the children, why are they traveling unaccompanied? That doesn't sound safe for ten-year-olds at all. And really, who's going to try something onboard? And really, why would they assume that a man is more dangerous than a woman in this respect? How about the fact that molestation of children BY WOMEN goes unreported more often because it's not taken seriously?

Sexism against men can't exist. For something to be sexist, it has to be discrimiatory AND have institutionalised power behind the discrimination. As long as men are 'dominant' in our society, and we are patriachial, there can't be sexism against men. This is the same reason that 'reverse racism' can't exist. People of colour can be discriminatory towards white people, but they can't be racist because they don't have the institutionalise power source behind the discrimination.

 

While it is a bit discriminatory, I would like to point the way to Schroedinger's Rapist.

Basically, since the vast majority of rapists, abusers, and molesters are male, the people who are most often hurt by them (women and children) basically have to assume that ANY male has a 50/50 chance of being a raper, abuser, or molester. Until they act, you have no way of knowing if they are a rapist or not.

SO, I am not horrified by this policy. I think that it is something that is generally not needed, since I doubt that many people get molested on a plane, and I would like for children not to travel alone anyway, but it is good to take precautions. If it were up to me, the kids would be sitting in the front row, only with other children.

 

Yes, molestation by women isn't taken as seriously, which is a problem. But it is also far rarer than molestation by men.

[Bubbleline]

Sexism against men can't exist. For something to be sexist, it has to be discrimiatory AND have institutionalised power behind the discrimination. As long as men are 'dominant' in our society, and we are patriachial, there can't be sexism against men. This is the same reason that 'reverse racism' can't exist. People of colour can be discriminatory towards white people, but they can't be racist because they don't have the institutionalise power source behind the discrimination.

 

I'm sorry, Rebecca, but I'm gonna have to disagree entirely with you. Men are discriminated against just like women are, just in different ways. So are white people. And this idea that it isn't racist or sexist if it's against the 'majority' is kinda crap. As long as that idea stands racism and sexism will continue to exist and we will forever be at war with each other.

 

And I just read an article on Schrodinger's Rapist the other day. The way I interpreted it was that yes, women have a built-in defense system that makes us wary of men we deem as "creepy" because our worst case scenario is death or rape, but that doesn't mean we recoil in horror and ostracize men. It just means that we tend to keep a closer eye on them and wait for them to prove to us that they are trust-worthy. And the numbers for rape and molestation are never really concrete because there are instances of false claims or claims that go unreported. In our society, it is way easier for a man to say he got in a street brawl than to admit that it was his wife or girlfriend that broke his arm. The same goes for instances of rape and molestation for men. I'm sure there are quite a few cases that go unreported because the man is too scared of being dismissed and emasculated. And that is not okay.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I would disagree with the premise that sexism against men isn't institutionalized.

 

I will agree about "reverse racism" not existing in America (and other white-led countries) because it isn't an institutionalized thing. Individual race-based acts, yes, but not racism because of what you said. However, that is because white people dominate EVERYTHING. Even things where there are more black people are often led at the top by white people.

 

But there is more than one "institution" in this country--and one of those institutions is childcare. It is not patriarchal, and there are biases against men for certain. Educational systems are still patriarchal, but childcare is not. And discrimination against men IS institutionalized in childcare. The fact that people are accepting men as pedophiles as FACT is proof that sexism against men is institutionalized AND internalized.

[Rebecca~]

I'm sorry, Rebecca, but I'm gonna have to disagree entirely with you. Men are discriminated against just like women are, just in different ways. So are white people. And this idea that it isn't racist or sexist if it's against the 'majority' is kinda crap. As long as that idea stands racism and sexism will continue to exist and we will forever be at war with each other.

Nope, sorry. Discrimination against men and white people exist, but not sexism and racism.

The Sexism = prejudice + power is the pretty standard definition by people in the social justice movement, as well as a lot of sociologists.

 

If you want to read more on it, here's a link to a Feminism 101 post on the subject.

That ‘+ power’ portion of the equation is one of the most important parts. This is not to say that the disenfranchised cannot be prejudiced, because many of them are, but without power, they are not actually working within the systematic framework of advantage created by the majority to privilege themselves. Thus it is only “racism” if the person is capable of using that framework; otherwise, it is prejudice.

 

There will be racism and sexism as long as the majority keep thinking that they deserve more than the rest. As long as men think they can sexualize women to the point where women are nothing but objects, as long as women are too scared to go out after dark in case they're raped, as long as police and the media and society tell rape victims that they were asking for it or didn't do enough to stop the rape from happening, as long as men think that they can harass and abuse women and just say that they're joking or showing how much they like them... as long as this happens, and so much more, there will be sexism. There will be sexism becuase all of these things are examples of sexism, and how it's allowed by society. And just by saying that "men are discriminated against sometimes too!" won't make ANY of that go away- instead it erases all of it, all of the privilege men have in our society, and how far women still have to go.

 

I would disagree with the premise that sexism against men isn't institutionalized.

 

I will agree about "reverse racism" not existing in America (and other white-led countries) because it isn't an institutionalized thing. Individual race-based acts, yes, but not racism because of what you said. However, that is because white people dominate EVERYTHING. Even things where there are more black people are often led at the top by white people.

 

But there is more than one "institution" in this country--and one of those institutions is childcare. It is not patriarchal, and there are biases against men for certain. Educational systems are still patriarchal, but childcare is not. And discrimination against men IS institutionalized in childcare. The fact that people are accepting men as pedophiles as FACT is proof that sexism against men is institutionalized AND internalized.

When it comes to childcare, it's one of the examples of sexism against women hurting men. Women are expected to be seen as the primary care givers, and men are basically useless parents-- that's why a father that does even the bare minimum (ie, taking a child to a doctor's appointment) gets so much credit for it ("Oh, what a splendid father he is!").

Becuase of this, women generally do get custody for children in divorce cases. Though, I have heard that when men ASK for custody, they recieve it 70% of the time, but I can't find a source for that at the moment.

 

People accept that men are paedophiles because MOST paedophiles are men. Not all men are paedophiles, obviously, but the vast majority of paedophiles are men. But it's not institutionalised on a societal level- it is one airplane company, and they are getting serious crap for it all over the place.

[Bubbleline]

Okay, it kinda feels like arguing semantics. If you talk to the average everyday person and ask them how they'd define sexism, they'd probably say something along the lines of "inequality and discriminate because of sex or gender." Plain and simple. I am just now getting into feminism and I'm still learning and reading up on feminist theory and trying to figure out where I stand in all of this, so I'm not claiming to be an expert at all. However, it bothered me that you instantly felt the need to explain that it apparently isn't sexism if it's against men. That sits wrong with me. And it seemed to me like you were kinda hand-waving it as if it isn't as important as "actual sexism". That is what I read from it, not saying that that is what you intended.

 

Again, I am nowhere near being an expert. I am not attacking you. That just bothered me and I felt the need to point it out.