Abortion.

[-Ryan]

Abortion is murder, bro. Just shouldn't happen and I don't think it should be an option.

 

 

In most cases there's no one to blame but you for you having a kid.

Shouldn't take the risk if you can't handle what happens.

Now to lighten the mood a bit -

[lilshadowdweller]

I used to be entirely pro-life. My Mother is a big advocate for pro-life and believes the fetus in the womb to be a baby, regardless of what stage of life it is.

 

I'm mostly pro-choice now. Pregnancy is a huge deal. It effects the mother dramatically. People forget that pregnancy can be dangerous - and if a woman doesn't desire going through it, why force her to? :sad01_anim: It's not just the pain pregnancy brings on, it also increases the chance of the mother having a blood clot, or developing temporarily diabetes, and pregnant women who get that sort of pregnancy diabetes are more likely to get real diabetes later on in life.

 

It's true, I value the life of the Mother before the fetus. She is the established one. She has people who love her and depend on her. Why risk her life?

 

HOWEVER, the other issue with abortion: at which point is the fetus no longer a fetus and actually a baby? And see, this is where I differ a bit from other 'pro-choicers'. I believe there needs to be a limit set on abortion. After maybe 3 months, I don't think one should abort. By this point, the baby can move and has developed quite significantly. It's a baby to me. :sad02:

 

Abortion is murder, bro. Just shouldn't happen and I don't think it should be an option.

 

It doesn't matter if you think it should be an option or not. It's going to happen regardless of what you personally think. It's inevitable.

 

'm realistic. Even if abortion was banned (like it has been in the passed), women would STILL seek them out. It won't stop. They will seek them out from sketchy doctors, which will pose a danger to the woman and her fetus. I'd rather it be done properly. It doesn't matter if you outlaw it or not, it's still going to happen.

 

I don't think abortion should be taught as a birth control option. Abortion in itself holds a few dangers, and the chance of infertility. :guiltysmiley: There are numerous birth control options available and birth control clinics to assist you in making a proper choice to protect yourself. Why not take the time and effort to pick one which is best for you, and avoid the pain of abortion/pregnancy? And, if you do take the chance, for $40 or upwards, you could also purchase the "morning after pill", which (unlike some people) I don't consider to be an abortion pill. (If you're already pregnant when you take it - it doesn't abort the baby. There's nothing you can do. It works by getting rid of the egg BEFORE the sperm can reach it.)

 

This is why birth control needs to be taught at schools! People are going to do it, regardless. Why not offer them assistance? Especially if you're against abortion?! You could prevent it entirely!

[April]

I agree with that.

 

All people preach to teenagers is DON'T have sex. That won't make a difference. Did the previous generation simply listen to that? No. So educate and explain how to be safe.

Accept it. Teenagers will do it. You can't force them not to btu maybe you can explain the risks and consequences a bit better.

[rue]

Look, it makes me uncomfortable to think that this aborted fetus could have the potential to grow into what every single one of us happen to be, but I would never vote to take away a woman's choice.

 

That being said, anyone considering abortion should take it as something seriously and think her decision through before the procedure.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

That being said, anyone considering abortion should take it as something seriously and think her decision through before the procedure.

 

Of course she should. In fact, anyone should take it seriously and think her decision through before the conception if at all possible. I can definitely understand people being anti-abortion, because nobody likes the thought of killing a fetus. Unfortunately, there are some people who are anti-abortion who are only for abstinence-only sex ed, and who are against birth control being readily available, and who are completely against the morning-after pill. These people cause abortions by making it difficult for women to get birth control, and I really wish they understood that. I know of one woman (not personally; it was in an article I read years ago) who could not get the morning after pill because the pharmacist refused to sell her one. She ended up requiring an abortion due to medical problems--an abortion that was entirely preventable, except for someone's religious beliefs blocking her.

[lilshadowdweller]

Of course she should. In fact, anyone should take it seriously and think her decision through before the conception if at all possible. I can definitely understand people being anti-abortion, because nobody likes the thought of killing a fetus.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself! :yes: Which is the main reason why I would never personally abort. But I won't judge someone who does. I support any effort to get/learn about birth control entirely - abortion should never be used as a form of birth control. People need to consider it during those time of pleasure; think about it, one night of pleasure could create an abortion. And abortion IS NOT as simple and as straight forward as pulling out a tooth, some people actually feel mentally unease after. It's also intrusive.

 

Unfortunately, there are some people who are anti-abortion who are only for abstinence-only sex ed, and who are against birth control being readily available, and who are completely against the morning-after pill. These people cause abortions by making it difficult for women to get birth control, and I really wish they understood that. I know of one woman (not personally; it was in an article I read years ago) who could not get the morning after pill because the pharmacist refused to sell her one. She ended up requiring an abortion due to medical problems--an abortion that was entirely preventable, except for someone's religious beliefs blocking her.

 

That person should have been fired! Oh my goodness! No pharmacist should be employed who forces their religious views on other people's bodies! :angry: And an abortion happened anyway! It's the same thing with people who are against the morning after pill! It's NOT even a 'real' abortion, because if you take the morning after pill and the egg has already settled and started to develop, it's too late. The morning after pill simply doesn't work. The morning after pill is simply a stronger dose of birth control! The reason they believe it's an "abortion pill" is because in the extremely rare event the egg is fertilized, the morning after pill causes the linen it would cling with to shed before the fertilized egg can get there. So the egg just dies. But c'mon, consider it a person JUST because it's fertilized? At that stage, it doesn't even remotely resemble a human! It's a cluster of cells! The majority of the time, the morning after pill simply rids you of the linen, slows the flow of sperm, and prevents your body from releasing a new egg. Most of the eggs aren't fertilized.

[Trig]

Couldn't have said it better myself! :yes: Which is the main reason why I would never personally abort. But I won't judge someone who does. I support any effort to get/learn about birth control entirely - abortion should never be used as a form of birth control. People need to consider it during those time of pleasure; think about it, one night of pleasure could create an abortion. And abortion IS NOT as simple and as straight forward as pulling out a tooth, some people actually feel mentally unease after. It's also intrusive.

 

So here's the thing. I'm not for abortion, and I'm not against it. I'm kind of in the middle. Well...okay, I guess I'm 'for' abortion in the loosest terms of the word. I think that there are circumstances in which it is acceptable to get an abortion, but I don't think it should be used as a form of birth control. I agree with what you said (quote) and I recently did a project on abortion which has opened my eyes to the many physical and psychological side effects of one. However, I also read a study that said that stress is highest prior to an abortion and steadily decreases after one, compared to women who go through with a pregnancy that is unwanted. I don't think it is fair to a child to be born to a mother who doesn't want it, or isn't prepared to care for it in a good manner.

[starrystar]

So here's the thing. I'm not for abortion, and I'm not against it. I'm kind of in the middle. Well...okay, I guess I'm 'for' abortion in the loosest terms of the word. I think that there are circumstances in which it is acceptable to get an abortion, but I don't think it should be used as a form of birth control. I agree with what you said (quote) and I recently did a project on abortion which has opened my eyes to the many physical and psychological side effects of one. However, I also read a study that said that stress is highest prior to an abortion and steadily decreases after one, compared to women who go through with a pregnancy that is unwanted. I don't think it is fair to a child to be born to a mother who doesn't want it, or isn't prepared to care for it in a good manner.

 

My stand is the same as Rayray's. Abortion is legal here in Singapore, no questions asked. Doctors here, however, do try to get their patients to understand the consequences of getting an abortion by showing a short video that is meant to dissuade patients from continuing with the abortion. Ultimately, the woman get to decide whether or not she wants to continue with the abortion.

 

Having been brought up in a society where the act of abortion doesn't raise too many eyebrows, I feel that the choice of whether or not to get an abortion should be the woman's decision (assuming she is of sound mind). The woman herself would know best as to whether she is capable of bringing up the child or not. There have been several local cases of contract migrant workers who were unable to care for their newborns and simply dumped their newborn down a rubbish chute or some other public places and left to die. Maybe it was their fear of repatriation, but I believe these tragedies could have been avoided if they had the option of turning to abortion. In such cases, I think this is about picking the lesser of the 2 evils. I know this may sound callous, but I feel that it would be more humane to terminate the growth and division of a ball of cells rather than to end the life of a newborn.

[Trig]

My stand is the same as Rayray's. Abortion is legal here in Singapore, no questions asked. Doctors here, however, do try to get their patients to understand the consequences of getting an abortion by showing a short video that is meant to dissuade patients from continuing with the abortion. Ultimately, the woman get to decide whether or not she wants to continue with the abortion.

 

Having been brought up in a society where the act of abortion doesn't raise too many eyebrows, I feel that the choice of whether or not to get an abortion should be the woman's decision (assuming she is of sound mind). The woman herself would know best as to whether she is capable of bringing up the child or not.

 

In Canada, abortion is also legal, so I've also been brought up to not really...strongly oppose it. However, there are still MANY debates in school and such on abortion, and my community is VERY religiously and culturally diverse so opinions tend to differ greatly. We also have this law in Canada that the father is not allowed to decide if the mother can have an abortion or not and it is entirely and 100% the woman's choice, which I agree with because it's the woman who has to go through everything :)

[neoskulltula]

Convenience abortions, which I would believe a large percentage, should not be condoned. Other situations get more tricky to have a hard and fast stand on the issue.

[youngrace]

statistically speaking, less than 20% of today's abortions are because of rape/extenuating circumstances. like neo said, the overwhelming majority of abortions across the board are convenience abortions, which is pretty sad.

[lilshadowdweller]

Convenience abortions, which I would believe a large percentage, should not be condoned. Other situations get more tricky to have a hard and fast stand on the issue.

 

But here's the problem: It's not your body. The world's population is booming, and already we can't afford to feed more. If there are a cluster of cells -- not yet developed, no conscience, why not rid of it quickly before it becomes a full fledged conscience human being? And yes, we could go more into the details of what conscience means -- ie, would a person who is disabeled/lower intelligence deserve the same fate; however, since a cluster of cells has basically the same capacity to feel pain or personality of the bacteria which grow onto your hand (and you kill easily every time you wash), I believe this falls into a different category.

[April]

I completely agree lilshadowdweller. Especially if the person pregnant can't afford to bring the child into the world. Yes, there's always adoption but do you know how many children don't get adopted? And I know most people prefer to adopt babies. But not everyone gets adopted. And each child put into the adopting system may take away from other children that need to be in there. If that makes sense. I confuse myself sometimes.

[billpika_x8]

Abortion is a half-necessary evil. Sometimes, it is because of rape and extenuating circumstances, and other times, it's just because someone was too lazy to use a contraceptive or proper protection. Then there's using embryos for stem cell research, but we need a new thread for that. If you must abort, don't wait. If you gotta do it, fine. I'm pro-choice, because I don't see real evil in it. If you kill the child outside of the womb, that's infanticide, not abortion. I could rant on, but I've got homework. poofs.

[youngrace]

i'm a doc-in-training, and have worked with quite a few case studies ... to be blunt, a HUGE majority of abortions are not done because the parents can't afford it, or because or rape, but for matters of convenience. there are a million and a half abortions each year in the united states, and the overwhelming percentage of those (85%) are for comparatively exiguous reasons (once i worked with a girl in la who told me -- "i don't want to have a baby because i'd rather spend the extra money on shoes." lol, are you kidding me?)

 

there is still obviously potential for bio-ethical reform in this sector

[neoskulltula]

But here's the problem: It's not your body. The world's population is booming, and already we can't afford to feed more. If there are a cluster of cells -- not yet developed, no conscience, why not rid of it quickly before it becomes a full fledged conscience human being? And yes, we could go more into the details of what conscience means -- ie, would a person who is disabeled/lower intelligence deserve the same fate; however, since a cluster of cells has basically the same capacity to feel pain or personality of the bacteria which grow onto your hand (and you kill easily every time you wash), I believe this falls into a different category.

 

Very true that it is not my body. Doesn't mean abortion is an acceptable contraceptive. Between birth control pills, condoms, spermicide, surgery and abstinence you really have a lot of options if you don't want a baby. (Note I am only obviously speaking to convenience abortions still.)

 

And from the population aspect, no matter what we do we're going to overgrow our resources. We're expected to hit 15 billion people by 2100. Sure abortions will cut down on this growth some but not enough to matter, so I feel that's a moot point.

 

And yeah I don't wanna get into the debate on what is life/consciousness too much.....you keep using the term cluster of cells. How is cellular growth not an adequate definition of life?

[sugagem01]

I am Pro- abortion, depending on the situation, i myself have had 2 abortions, 1 when i was 16, i was on the pill but nothings 100%. obviousy at 16 i could barely look after myself let alone another life so i took the decision to have an abortion. My 2nd 1 was 6months after the birth of my son, Again i knew i wouldnt be able to cope, or if i could it wouldnt be the life i could possibly provide i would want for it. That was one of the most heartbreaking situations i have ever been in, especially as the guy who did it left the scan picture on the table for me to see whilst he went off for 10mins, staring at that picture was, devestating but i know for my situation it was the right thing to do. On the other hand, when i was at the clinic when i was 16 this girl came up to me, it seemed like she was mentally disabled but i not completly sure, she just randomly came up to me and started talking, she old me that that was her 4th abortion this year and they had told her she would have to start going privatly if she needed anymore, in that case i believe that they should.. well i dont know what they should have done, because if she was that irresponsible to get pregnant unwantingly 5 times in 1 year then they shouldnt refuse treatment making her have the child, because i cant imagine that it would be bought up correcty, but then again i could be wrong she could have been brilliant, you never know... Well thats my opinion on Abortion, obviously some people will not like it, but I did wht was right for me and i am happy with it.

[kristinaapril]

I personally am against abortion for myself but that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal.

Actually - I think it needs to stay legal. It was illegal before and obviously it didn't work.

 

 

 

Since I am Roman Catholic I am 100 PERCENT AGAINST ABORTION. If you don't want to have a baby and preventing it is easy. Birth Control pills. Abortion is taking life well an unborn child.

You do realize that any form of birth control is against the Bible, right?

it's nobody's business except for the person with the option.

I agree 100%.

[zeldafable_rebel]

I personally am against abortion for myself but that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal.

Actually - I think it needs to stay legal. It was illegal before and obviously it didn't work.

 

I'm in agreement with you. I'm totally against abortion for me, but I don't think the government should have a say in it at all. What does it have to do with the government? It's someone's personal decision. No one should be able to tell someone else what to do in such a personal area.

[billpika_x8]

It's a necessary evil. Some people believe it to be best, and you can't tell them otherwise.

[keiwo]

I haven't read the thread in its entirety.. I believe the pro-life movement is entirely anti-human in a number of ways, and if there are pro-lifers who have posted in here, I know I'll lose the plot.

 

I am absolutely pro-choice. Abortion is NOT murder (please read up on fetal development before you start spouting that rubbish) and everyone has the right to choose what to do with their body and their lives. Whether the abortion is for the person's convenience or because they have been raped or they can't afford to have the baby is completely irrelevant because it is none of my business and it does no harm to me. If I were to get pregnant (which is pretty impossible in my current circumstance, but I'll take that with a grain of salt), I would most probably get an abortion because I am not ready for a child in any capacity. I would much rather abort a fetus than bring a child into a world where it is not really wanted.

[jadorablack]

I used to be completely COMPLETELY for abortion, but then some of my friends told me their opinions and how if you're having sex, there's always the consequences. Then my opinion on abortion turned into still pro-abortion, but there should be a way to consequence the people who are having unprotected sex. AND THEN my mom argued with me that even if you're on the pill or using condoms, there's still the chance of pregnancy. So after that, my opinion is kind of turned back to the original. It's not like anyone wants to have to have an abortion, but what if they're just not ready to have a child. Yes, however small that child is, it's still a life. But is it better to cease the life before it really begins, or is it better to bring the life into a possibly miserable world?

 

I'm in agreement with you. I'm totally against abortion for me, but I don't think the government should have a say in it at all. What does it have to do with the government? It's someone's personal decision. No one should be able to tell someone else what to do in such a personal area.

I think the world needs more people like you: people that disagree with the actions of others, but respect their right to make those actions.

 

 

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[Cassia]

I greatly respect those who disagree with the opinion of others, but recognize that their right to hold a different opinion. :P

 

As for me, I am pro-choice. Pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Just because a person is pro-choice, doesn't necessarily mean that they like abortions. Personally, I don't think that having an abortion of convenience, especially multiple times is good, however, I believe that women should be allowed to choose what to do with their bodies. It isn't right for a person to force their personal beliefs on another, which is one reason why abortions should be legal. Those who are against it, can then choose not to have an abortion.

 

Furthermore, even though the vast majority of abortions are for convenience, it isn't fair to the other women, who were raped, put into a difficult situation, or have their health threatened, just because they are in the minority. My mom was pregnant with another baby when I was 6, who was diagnosed with a form of Trisomy (can't remember exactly which, wasn't Down's Syndrome though). If he/she were to be born (which wasn't very likely to happen anyways), he/she would suffer through a very short life. My mom decided to abort. At the time, I was confused, and didn't really agree with my mom's decision, however, as I grew up, I realized that my mom did what she thought was best for both her and her child. While some may say that she was being selfish, I don't believe that she was thinking of herself. She agonized over the decision, however, in the end, she decided that it wouldn't be fair to put a baby with no chance of survival, even to kindergarten through so much suffering. Not only that, she was also thinking of the rest of the rest of our family when she made the decision. With a sick grandmother, and me only being 6, she would not have been able to take good care of all of us.

 

Sorry for the long post :P

[Poetrie]

I am definitely 100% pro-choice. I believe that everyone should be responsible for their own actions but it is not in our position to judge others based on the moral standards that we set for ourselves. There are so many different parts of the equation that could amount to someone deciding to go for an abortion that it is simply unfair to make any form of generalization. I do respect that advocates of the pro-life mindset are highly against taking away the life of an innocent fetus, but there are actually quite a fair number of fates which may be worse.

 

Bringing up a child is a lifelong responsibility and there are circumstances where one may simply not be a position to be a good parent. It is arguably not that responsible to bring a child into the world knowing that there is going to be a lifetime of suffering in store for him or her. Ultimately, the caregivers of the child have to be the ones who can guarantee that they will do everything in their best efforts to bring that child up responsibly and happily and if that is something that they cannot promise 100%, sometimes, it may be more merciful to opt for an abortion. I'm mostly talking about scenarios such as mental or physical conditions that would severely affect the child, or serious emotional trauma that results from the conception of the child.

 

In any case, any mother who loses her child through abortion is already undergoing an eternal punishment. I have a friend who had an abortion and she told me that it haunts her every single day. So really, as someone watching from the sidelines, I would highly recommend that we show tolerance if not empathy for the difficult decisions that others have to make.

[passiflora]

I'm not against abortion, but I don't think I could ever do it myself. I'm now in a position where if I was to get pregnant, I don't think it would be irresponsible to follow through.

 

As much as most people would probably like to wish it wasn't simply used for convenience or as an 'alternate form of birth control', but I don't think there's any realistic way to control that. We also have to remember that even if someone chooses adoption because they're not allowed or pressured out of an abortion, they still have to go through pregnancy. Raising a kid is a big commitment, but even pregnancy itself is a huge responsibility. There's even mounting evidence that what you do when you're pregnant has long-term effects on the health of the fetus (including risk for obesity, type II diabetes, and cardiovascular disease) -- a healthy population depends partly on healthy mothers.

 

 

I skimmed the thread but not sure I saw it discussed much; out of curiosity, does anyone feel strongly about the cutoff point as to when abortions should be legal/illegal? The "limit of viability" is considered ~24 weeks, and I'm not sure what the "legal limit" is when it comes to abortions in which the mother's life is not in danger.