Marijuana Legalization

[Russ]

There's a lot of conflicting viewpoints on marijuana legalization, with some people thinking it should be allowed just medicinally, some people thinking it should be entirely legal, some thinking it should be totally banned, etc.

 

I support marijuana legalization 100%, for both medicinal and recreational usage. If you actually look at the facts, there's just no sensible reason to keep it banned. The laws against it cause far more harm to society than marijuana itself ever could do. The garbage they throw at kids about it being a "gateway drug", funding terrorism, causing cancer and all that stuff are just lies and propaganda, plain and simple. It's an incredibly harmless plant and it's really unfortunate how many people are uneducated on it and treat the legalization movement as if it's just a joke. It's an incredibly effective medicine for tons of illnesses and to deny it to people who are suffering is just cruel and wrong. As far as recreational usage goes, it's people's individual right to put it in their body if they want to. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal and they're much more harmful to the human body than marijuana could be in any dosage. I also hate the stereotype that anyone who supports marijuana legalization is a stoner or just wants to smoke pot.. I've never smoked it and have no interest in doing so at any point in my life because it's not something that interests me on any level, but I still support the rights of others.

 

There are probably going to be some more conflicting opinions here than in the marriage equality topic I also started, so I'm going to enjoy some debating this time instead of just hugging with people who agree with me.

[inkt]

Here, here. Personally, I don't smoke or enjoy marijuana in eatables, etc., because my body has a difficult time handling high levels of THC (I just get sick), but I know many people who use the plant for medicinal and recreational purposes. Legalizing and taxing the living hell out of it would do wonders for our economy (I live in the US) so I think it's absurd to have left the issue untouched for this long. People are biased towards the issue because, like you said, years of lies and useless propaganda have been spread creating stereotypes and false fears of the amazing little plant. I saw a few commercials last year about people with serious medical issues that used marijuana to relieve the pain and help towards recovery and I wish there were more of those. Anyway, have to get ready for work. Love this topic, and will come back later. (happy 4:20 right now, btw)

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I agree with most things you said, except that marijuana CAN be harmful. You say it's less harmful than tobacco--this is simply not true. The only reason people say it is? Because tobacco users smoke every day for years, whereas marijuana smokers can't afford to do that. Smoking marijuana damages lungs every bit as much as smoking tobacco. Pot brownies, on the other hand...

 

I am against legalizing marijuana for now. The bill was introduced in California when I still lived there, and I voted against it--mostly because it was incredibly poorly written. (Not everyone who smokes marijuana is a stoner, but stoners wrote that law.) You bring up excellent points, and I have all the same points myself. I think it would do wonders for the economy. I think that anyone who wants to harm themselves can do it. Also, if it were legal here, there would be many fewer violent crimes from drug dealers and smuggling--although only upon legalizing everything (which I am HIGHLY against) could we eradicate drug-related murders.

 

However:

1) Alcohol is legal, but drunk driving is illegal. This is measurable. There are tests one can perform to ensure that someone IS driving beyond a legal limit. This is absolutely not the case with marijuana--no one has developed a way to measure its effects. I used to work with a former drug addict, who said that in the beginning stages of his smoking marijuana, it was in his system for weeks and he could not drive for at least a week afterward, he got so messed up on it. As it currently stands, if you have drugs in your system at all, you're breaking the law, so you don't have to worry about measurement.

 

A former best friend of mine was killed when I was fourteen by a drunk driver; the driver had a blood alcohol content of 0.17%, more than twice the legal limit, and was hauled off to jail for it for years and years. If she was intoxicated by marijuana instead, there would be no way to prove that was what caused the accident, and her sentence would have been commuted to reckless driving and POSSIBLY involuntary manslaughter. (On alcohol, it counts as voluntary manslaughter, which is a much higher crime.)

 

One more thing regarding alcohol vs. marijuana: People say that you're much safer on marijuana. People who say this are people who are smoking the marijuana. Anyone who has ever SEEN anyone on marijuana knows that this is absolutely not true. The consensus is that the only difference between the two is that drunk people are more likely to KNOW they cannot drive, whereas high people think they're totally cool to drive. The only reason why there are more deaths from alcohol is that alcohol is easier to obtain.

 

2) When this is worked out, I would like to put in a bid for only legalizing pot in non-smoking forms. The reason? Cigarette smoke sucks for people to smell--particularly asthmatics--but it is NOTHING compared to marijuana. I don't know the statistics, but it seems like at least 40% of the people I know get incredibly sick from smelling it. I know I do--and in fact, being around someone smoking just one time made me unable to function for two days, as though I had been intoxicated without getting the perks of it. And smoking indoors does not help, because the smell lingers on the person. A guy walked in fifteen minutes late to one of my classes one day, smelling of it--I threw up.

 

So really, it DOES affect people who are innocent bystanders. Strongly. If it were legal, this would happen on a regular basis, and 40% of people I know (including me) would never be able to step outside the house again.

 

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT...

I'm completely okay with medical marijuana, as long as it doesn't get abused. Which it does*, but banning the use of medical marijuana because a few people abuse it is stupid and punishes people who really need it.

 

*I really don't think medical marijuana should be prescribed to people who aren't in physical pain from diagnosed diseases/disabilities/disorders. I know two cases where it was abused. One, a guy I know faked anxiety--he bragged about faking it--and got medical marijuana just so he could get high. (Marijuana to treat anxiety? No waaaaaaaaay, maaaaan, you mean marijuana calms you down?) Two, I don't even know what it was to treat, because the guy has never had a disability or anything, but he got it and started dealing it. He has since been to rehab and doesn't have a card anymore. This type of abuse can happen with all sorts of prescription drugs, though.

 

 

 

My own personal experience with drugs: When I was nine, I was diagnosed with my first of several disabilities to come--just scoliosis, but it got really bad. I was in a lot of pain from the backbrace, but it was worse that I couldn't breathe. I got to be really bad about doing my homework because I couldn't breathe. My mom saw me not doing my homework, and she got me diagnosed with ADD and forced me to start taking the "medication" (drugs) for it. Since I definitely did NOT have it, I suffered really strongly from the negative side effects. Hallucinations, memory loss, severe appetite loss--I gained five inches of height over a few years without gaining any weight for it. I had a BMI that was only just over 13--horrible.

 

I started hiding the pills rather than taking them, but I wasn't really sure how to get rid of them, so I hid them in a drawer and was discovered.

 

Basically, since those years, I stopped taking medication for anything. I now have a combination of the rod in my spine plus an auto-immune disease that is similar to multiple sclerosis, but mainly located in the spine. Neither one of the two is a horrendous disease until you combine them. Bah. But since I stopped taking medication, not even aspirin or tylenol or ibuprofen, every time I TRY to take an anti-inflammatory, it completely destroys me. I can't move, think, or do anything.

 

So all these people are taking medical marijuana for small things--they will prescribe it for ANYTHING--and I can't even take a simple over-the-counter pill for mine. It kind of makes me want to call those people pansies.

[Russ]

One more thing regarding alcohol vs. marijuana: People say that you're much safer on marijuana. People who say this are people who are smoking the marijuana. Anyone who has ever SEEN anyone on marijuana knows that this is absolutely not true. The consensus is that the only difference between the two is that drunk people are more likely to KNOW they cannot drive, whereas high people think they're totally cool to drive. The only reason why there are more deaths from alcohol is that alcohol is easier to obtain.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring half your post but I have to go to school really soon and just felt like responding to this first. This is absolutely false. Multiple studies have shown that doing marijuana doesn't significantly affect your driving ability. "High people think they're totally cool to drive" is the exact opposite - when people are driving on marijuana they're more aware of the fact that they're under the influence of something and try to compensate for it. Obviously it isn't a good idea to drive high but it's not nearly as bad as driving drunk, and that's just an undeniable fact. And it's not hard to obtain marijuana at all. I've never done it but if I wanted to, I know exactly who I could talk to to find out how to get it with little to no difficulty at all. Getting pot is crazy easy, I knew people who were doing it regularly even in 7th grade, and if seventh graders are able to get it then clearly the laws are a failure.

[Megan Roxanne]

Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring half your post but I have to go to school really soon and just felt like responding to this first. This is absolutely false. Multiple studies have shown that doing marijuana doesn't significantly affect your driving ability. "High people think they're totally cool to drive" is the exact opposite - when people are driving on marijuana they're more aware of the fact that they're under the influence of something and try to compensate for it. Obviously it isn't a good idea to drive high but it's not nearly as bad as driving drunk, and that's just an undeniable fact. And it's not hard to obtain marijuana at all. I've never done it but if I wanted to, I know exactly who I could talk to to find out how to get it with little to no difficulty at all. Getting pot is crazy easy, I knew people who were doing it regularly even in 7th grade, and if seventh graders are able to get it then clearly the laws are a failure.

 

I think, when it comes to being high and driving it largely depends on the individual behind the wheel. Sure, there are probably some people that get very over aware of being under the influence. I come from a small town, where literally everyone I know smokes marijuana. A few select individuals were very good about it. Only driving if they absolutely had no choice and making sure there were very focused on the road, but the majority of the people I knew who drove while high where downright scary. They completely thought they were cool to drive, and they definitely were not. Thankfully, in small towns there's pretty much no one on the roads, so if you cross into the oncoming lane of traffic your chances of meeting someone are pretty much nil...

 

My point is, its far from absolutely false.

[Russ]

I definitely do agree that it's stupid and irresponsible to drive under the influence of pot but I don't think it's as bad as - and certainly not worse than - doing so under the influence of alcohol, and I don't think that it's a good enough reason to outlaw it entirely given all the harm caused by the marijuana laws. I'm sure that we could probably find some way of detecting whether someone's high if we put research into it. I've never been around anyone who was high and behind the wheel personally so I can't speak from experience, I just know that a lot of tests showed that it doesn't have too much of an impact but I'm sure it's different for every individual person.

 

I don't think that the fact that some people can't take the smell of it is a good reason to ban it at all, really.

[Emily]

There are pros and cons for the legalization of marijuana, from both the sides of the users and the legal side.

 

From my personal experience, I have found marijuana affects me much less and for a much shorter time than alcohol. I have felt the effects of alcohol for a long time after drinking (by long, I mean 6 hours+), as well as the next morning. With pot, the effects usually wear off within 3 hours. However, others have had different experiences, and the way it affects one person will not necessarily be the same as someone else. Also, from what I understand, Marijuana is not addictive. In the sense that it IS addictive, I would liken it to chocolate. You use it because it causes a pleasurable feeling, not because (like is the case with alcohol and tobacco) you have a physical need for it (withdrawal symptoms). Again, this is just observation of myself and others I know, as well as a few studies I have read on addiction (I don't claim to be an expert by any means).

 

However, as Karina mentioned, Marijuana can still cause symptoms akin to those of alcohol while you're under the influence of it. As far as not being able to tell who is under the influence, I would disagree. There are methods to test for THC, THCV, CBD and the other chemicals in marijuana in the body. Anyone who has ever been subjected to drug testing for work or other activities knows that the chemicals can still be present in the body days after the substance is ingested and long after the effects wear off, so there is something to be said for being able to test for it.

 

From the legal perspective, there are many reasons why legalizing it would be beneficial. Different countries and districts have different laws regarding the persecution of possession. Possession. Without even having proof of having taken the substance, for just having it in your possession, you can face jail time. In my opinion, this is completely uncalled for. Imagine an 18-year-old, with their whole life ahead of them, thrown in jail (in some cases for years) for simply possessing marijuana. Personally, I think that is completely ridiculous. You end up losing that much of your life, and are followed with a criminal record, for your entire life. Murderers and rapists get off while some kid with pot is thrown in jail. Does anyone else see a problem here? From a monetary standpoint, the legal system (partially funded by tax dollars) is forced to pay for supporting just one more person, who, in my opinion, shouldn't even be there. Just in Canada, housing a minimum-medium security inmate runs a price of upwards of $70,000/year. Instead of incarcerating a kid for possession of pot, we could be putting that money into underfunded schools and hospitals.

 

If pot were legalized, in my opinion, it would be much easier to regulate. Obviously, even though it's illegal, people still use it. You can get it A) from a doctor via prescription, b ) through a friend who grows it or C ) from some stranger down an alley. If it were legal and sold (as is being discussed in British Columbia) alongside alcohol or tobacco products, A) you would need I.D to buy it, B)it would be government regulated from certified growing operations, so it would be safer and b ) They could tax it. Imagine the revenue that could be generated if marijuana was legally sold and taxed, not to mentioned the legal jobs it would create. In fact, many recreational drug users DON'T want it legalized because A)it would likely mean harsher penalties from those uncertified people caught selling it meaning b ) "Street Pot" would be harder to come by and therefore C ) They would end up having to pay more for it from a certified vendor (incl. tax) than they otherwise would have to.

 

As far as abuse, the laws would remain like those of alcohol. No driving under the influence, no buying for minors, etc. You may be thinking that people will do it anyway. Sadly, people still drive under the influence and buy alcohol and tobacco for minors all the time. All we can do it continue to enforce these laws whenever people are caught and hope it will deter people in the future.

 

To sum up my argument, I feel that if alcohol and tobacco are legal, marijuana should be too. It is no more harmful than the aforementioned drugs (remember, alcohol and tobacco, heck even caffeine, are drugs), it would profit the economy in terms of tax dollars and job creation (pot needs to be farmed and cultivated too!).

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Russ--forget studies a minute. I'm from California, land of potheads. I am telling you precisely what my pothead friends have told me--that they absolutely cannot drive under the influence of marijuana, that it is MUCH worse than driving drunk.

 

Okay, now that you've forgotten studies, let me bring it back up.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjp_faq13.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

 

ALL of the studies anywhere say that marijuana slows reflexes and thinking. Maybe I'm wrong about a few things, but I'm not wrong that marijuana does affect driving.

 

You're right about one thing. Marijuana is not hard to obtain. But it IS still far more expensive than alcohol, and not nearly as easy to obtain anyway. All those seventh graders you mentioned probably also had a ton of alcohol as well. My point about it causing fewer accidents (only 15% of reckless driving accidents!) due to fewer people DOING it still stands.

 

By the way, there is a huge difference between "can't take the smell of it" and "a humongous percentage of the population could be severely disabled due to it." There's a huge difference between someone hating the smell of something and someone who actually has their life ruined because of other people. My policy is "do no harm"--and trust me, marijuana DOES harm other people. I am living proof, as are many, many other people. Famous quote: "Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

 

Incidentally, if one kid at a school is allergic to peanuts, nobody at the school is allowed to bring a peanut to school. ADA, you know? So if one person is allergic to marijuana smoke, you're not allowed to smoke it near them.

 

EDIT: Let me stress one thing, though, to add on to all of this. Whether marijuana is legal or not, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY it should EVER be punishable by jail time. I mean, despite everything I just said, the act of smoking marijuana isn't as dangerous as running a red light. So why is one punishable by a fine and the other by jail time? It's really stupid, and THAT more than anything is terrible for the economy. Fine it. $100 for each person caught smoking marijuana. Dang, did I just fix the economy?

 

(Answer: no, no I didn't.)

[Russ]

Russ--forget studies a minute. I'm from California, land of potheads. I am telling you precisely what my pothead friends have told me--that they absolutely cannot drive under the influence of marijuana, that it is MUCH worse than driving drunk.

 

Okay, now that you've forgotten studies, let me bring it back up.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjp_faq13.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

 

ALL of the studies anywhere say that marijuana slows reflexes and thinking. Maybe I'm wrong about a few things, but I'm not wrong that marijuana does affect driving.

 

So we do the sensible thing and ban driving while under the influence of it. It's not as if we have no way of knowing whether someone is high. Here's the study I was referencing, though:

http://www.ukcia.org/research/driving/01.php

THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 g/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08 g%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs' (Robbe, 1994; Robbe and O'Hanlon, 1995; O'Hanlon et al., 1995). Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.

Obviously not saying this magically makes me right, but just showing where I was getting my information from if you're curious or whatever.

 

I looked at the two links you posted. If you want to trust NIDA on marijuana then I won't stop you. It doesn't seem to cite any of the "driving experiments" that have shown the detrimental effects on driving ability, and the same website in your second link also said "more research needs to be done on marijuana's side effects and potential benefits before it is used medically with any regularity" and said that this came from the incredibly specific source of "scientists".

 

But seeing as how we both seem to at least be in agreement that driving under pot is a stupid idea and shouldn't be allowed, I think it's a bit pointless to go on debating just how detrimental it is.

 

By the way, there is a huge difference between "can't take the smell of it" and "a humongous percentage of the population could be severely disabled due to it." There's a huge difference between someone hating the smell of something and someone who actually has their life ruined because of other people. My policy is "do no harm"--and trust me, marijuana DOES harm other people. I am living proof, as are many, many other people. Famous quote: "Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

 

Incidentally, if one kid at a school is allergic to peanuts, nobody at the school is allowed to bring a peanut to school. ADA, you know? So if one person is allergic to marijuana smoke, you're not allowed to smoke it near them.

I see your point here and I do think it's unfortunate because banning the smoking of it in public places wouldn't completely solve that issue, but banning the smoking of it entirely is just a silly idea that wouldn't work and nobody would follow that law. Even if we remove the bans on all other forms of marijuana but still have the ban on smoking it, there's still a problem.

 

EDIT: Let me stress one thing, though, to add on to all of this. Whether marijuana is legal or not, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY it should EVER be punishable by jail time. I mean, despite everything I just said, the act of smoking marijuana isn't as dangerous as running a red light. So why is one punishable by a fine and the other by jail time? It's really stupid, and THAT more than anything is terrible for the economy. Fine it. $100 for each person caught smoking marijuana. Dang, did I just fix the economy?

Yeah, having it punishable by jail time is just awful on so many levels. I think even fining it would be a bad idea because I don't think people should be punished for what they choose to put into their body. At least we agree that the current laws are really irrational, though.