Bubbles and Life

[Ro-]

Cornflakes, I fail to understand why life is important. Please explain.

[Meagan]

Yes I would open the jar, because the bubbles would have the opportunity to be what they're supposed to be, instead of being confined for our own selfish reasons. It's like certain flowers that only bloom for a short period of time, they are beautiful and worth seeing and appreciating.... ^_^

[xxFrenchiexxx]

If opening the jar would lead to a quick, but painless death and bring the bubbles back into a state of total unknowing, then why not open the jar and see what they do? For all we know the bubbles could decide they didn't want to die so quickly and eventually last longer. Better to give one a chance rather than never know what the answer could be.

[Featherstar]

Well, no - the bubbles can't just decide to live longer. Their life will be one second long whether they like it or not. :3

[Tyler.]

I would open it. Everything deserves a free life no matter how long it is

[Featherstar]

Free life? As in... deserve the opportunity to live? (And take note; when you open the jar, the bubble's aren't presented with a choice of life; they're going to live and die in that second whether they like it or not) x3

 

But I definitely see where you're coming from. ^^

[Cornflakes]

Cornflakes, I fail to understand why life is important. Please explain.

 

Certainly. But first, let me make sure I understand what you are asking me to explain. There is a difference between 'existence' and 'life.'

 

Life, as in living things, from whales to single-celled organisms...in my humble opinion, all life is precious and important.

 

Existence, on the other hand...sigh. Existence seems pointless. Why are we here? We are born, and then we die; the whole thing is seemingly pointless. The vast majority of us will never make a mark on eternity. We are but dandelion seeds wafting in the wind...we land, we bloom, we seed, then we die, lost amongst billions of others. Why? I ask, but unfortunately, it is not for us to know. :(

 

Did that help at all? :)

[Ro-]

I don't see how you're distinguishing life from existence given what you said about its lack of importance, and you still haven't explained why life is important.

[Featherstar]

Kind of barging in on this side-debate/debate about the importance of life...

 

In my opinions at the moment (although I think this is may be what Cornflakes is trying to say) is that life is the beauty of the living cell, how it works, how it moves, how every tiniest molecule fits perfectly. Life is the exhilaration of the chase when a lion brings down a buffalo, and it's happiness and enjoyment and work and contribution and everything that we live for.

 

But existence is when you zoom out from life, and zoom out in time. Every meaningful form of life becomes the tiniest blink in exisitence, and very much insignificant compared to all of the billions and billions of other blinks of tiny life going on and off at the same time. We live, we die. All in less than 100 years, which is quite literally nothing when we look at it as existence. However beautiful and meaningful and perfect life is, when we shrink it and put it in a mass of so many other life forms, it becomes existence and essentially meaningless.

[Ro-]

I now understand the distinction. Thank you. I still am not convinced of the value of life, though. There is no utility in your argument - just beauty.

[Cornflakes]

Yeah...I just couldn't think of another way to explain myself, so I have been pondering it for the last few days.

 

@ Ro-, I am curious, are you asking for the distinction as a means of clarifying an argument, or are you asking because you truly don't see the value of life?

[Ro-]

I like to challenge that which was generally take for granted (the value of life) and figure out whether it is true, or why it is, etc. In Watchmen, Dr. Manhattan has his speech about how all of humanity could be wiped out and the universe wouldn't care. So really, what is the importance of life? That said, I'd prefer people not to die, but the creation of new life doesn't hold too much value for me.

[Cornflakes]

Haha, okay, just checking :P

 

Hrm, that's a good point...what is the importance of life? It all boils down to that eternal mystery, "Why are we here?"

 

That, I definitely can't (and shouldn't even try to) answer.

 

That's a whole 'nother topic right there. hehe

[Featherstar]

Well, there's more meaning than beauty to life, although beauty often times does equal value, does it not? People think gold and jewels are beautiful, and since they happen to be not-so-easy-to-find at the same time, they become very valuable.

 

But although beauty is definitely a part of the value of life, there's more, and that more differs from person to person, I think. Ask yourself what you live for, why you don't just lie there waiting to die since that's everyones fate in the end, anyway. My answer would be... because I can do more than just wait there to die. I can work and learn and contribute to the society, and love and be loved and understand some things and be happy. All that, in my eyes, is equal to the value of life.

 

 

Why are we here? Because our parents decided to... x3 I'll have to think about that one. ^^

[Chu]

I'd let them go, but not because of a romanticized view on life or anything. That jar is taking up space, and it could be used for something else. Better to kill off the bubbles and use the jar for something else, rather than to just let them sit there and waste space.

 

Yeah, I'm not one for the whole "beauty of life" concept. ;) It's pretty silly if you ask me, because there's so much more to it than that. You can't do anything useful by living for just one second, let alone process anything well enough to feel happiness as you suggested. Those creatures would be a pathetic waste of space, and they would be forgotten shortly after anyway.

[Ro-]

Nice, Chu. I like unabashed utility. One more word.

[Featherstar]

That's an interesting argument.

 

Just to suggest a counter - what defines a second to be a short period of time? Is it just because us humans, one species out of billions, lives a certain amount of time, and one second happens to be the tiniest portion of it? What if an extremely long-living organism, that lived trillions of times longer than us said "You can't do anything useful by living for just one century, let alone process anything well enough to feel happiness..." Yet we feel happiness, correct? x3

[Chu]

Nice, Chu. I like unabashed utility. One more word.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

 

EDIT: Oh, if you're referring to my "silly" comment, that's not meant as a personal attack against anyone. I actually admire romantics. XD I'm too cynical for that type of thinking, so a romantic's mind is "silly" to me because I don't see it as logical or perceptive. It's definitely imaginative though.

 

But if it's not that then I'm totally lost by your comment.

 

 

@Featherstar: Hm, that's an interesting point. I guess you've got me on that one.

 

I wonder though, what would they be doing in that second of life? What usefulness would they serve? I think that I'd still hold that mindset because I still couldn't see what good they would be doing for me. I'm rather selfish and intolerant like that.

[Ro-]

The 'one more word' was just so I could clear the word count - the unabashed utility thing means I'm impressed by your rationality.

[Featherstar]

@Chu

 

Hm... I suppose they wouldn't serve much usefulness to the world itself - but how many humans actually do? Sure, there are plenty that have been 'useful', as in serving the human population. Authors, actors, presidents/leaders, artists, peace-makers, geniuses that developed laws and theories... but nothing that actually serves the world. They only serve humans.

So bubbles, in their one-second life (which would be a lifetime for them), they could definitely contribute to their own little population, which in a way would be just a smaller scale in time and numbers of our own. But to the world... they'd probably leave little or no impact. x3

[Chu]

@Ro: Oh, I understand. XD Sorry, I wasn't sure if the "one more word" was a threat or something. Thanks.

 

 

@Featherstar: Usefulness to any degree is entirely based on perception, honestly. With what you just said in mind, I'd probably still let them go because it would not only serve me by no longer wasting "my" space, but it would also serve the bubbles by providing them their lives. I don't much care for the latter, but it's a nice thing to happen regardless.

[Noog]

I haven't really read all of the responses, but does anyone else feel that this question is basically a twist on a decision to abort or not to abort a baby that won't live after it's born?

 

With that said, I would open up the jar for them to live. Even if they did have the ability to feel, a bursting of your entire body would happen too fast for nerves to react and signal it as pain. The bubbles have nothing to lose.

[Cornflakes]

The bubbles have nothing to lose.

 

But nothing to really gain, either.

 

And yep, it's kinda an abortion debate :P

[Featherstar]

Oh jeez, I never intended that. xP

I'd actually prefer not to debate about abortion, just because it gets touchy for some people and I don't want to offend anyone. (I suppose you guys can go ahead, if you like. x3)

But curiously enough, I'm pro-letting-bubbles-go, but also pro-choice. Hm, I'll have to think about it.

[Unstream]

Wow this is such a great topic. I wish I had found it earlier. There's a lot to say.

 

First off, I think this is very different from abortion, since the scenario guarantees a happy life, which wouldn't be the case in an abortion scenario. Who knows? There's got to be some kids out there wishing they were aborted (wow, that's depressing).

 

This was kind of my initial reaction to the prompt. It doesn't really matter. If the bubble pops and doesn't know of it's existence, then there was no point for it to have existed to begin with. I mean, it's only one second. It wouldn't even have time to process its existence before it died. It probably would never know it was alive to begin with. So whether or not you leave the bubbles in the jar or release them, it's the same end result - no consciousness. The whole question is meaningless and irrelevant because that one second is meaningless.

 

But then I read this post:

Free life? As in... deserve the opportunity to live? (And take note; when you open the jar, the bubble's aren't presented with a choice of life; they're going to live and die in that second whether they like it or not) x3

 

But I definitely see where you're coming from. ^^

It kinda struck me then as a wow, we're all kind of like the bubbles that were released. Granted, we aren't all happy with our lives, but essentially, we weren't given the option of whether or not we wanted to be alive. Yes, the bubbles will live and die whether they like it or not, but we have to too. So it really boils it down to this. Would you have preferred to never exist or do you enjoy your existence, your ability to make friends (and lose them), fall in love (and out of it), feel pain, post a message on this thread, etc.?

 

Essentially, I'd want more information before coming to a decision.

I think this is a great answer. You could leave the jar closed and hope that the next person to come upon it has more options.

 

Back to the original question: Additionally, I couldn't play God. Just being given this choice would weigh heavily on my conscience. How could I live with myself knowing that I made the choice to terminate all of those lives? Better to just never let them experience life at all.

(Of course, the decision to never let them experience life at all would also keep me up at night. But I would find solace in the fact that the bubbles are blissfully ignorant.)

 

I cannot be responsible for ending a life. That's not my job. I myself am a Christian, and so I believe that job is held solely by our Creator.

Okay, I'm sorry this is so irrelevant, and that I'm just picking on such a small thing, but it's one of my biggest pet peeves. Don't ever use the "playing God" card. We play God all the time. Playing God is making a choice, any choice. We play God when we save a person's life. We play God when we make our own decisions in everyday life. It's just who we are.

As a Christian, I must say, the "playing God" card is the weakest one in our hand.

Plus for this situation, we could ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?" Or probably more correctly, "What did Jesus do?" (Assuming you believe that Jesus and God are the same deity). Well God created the universe and opened the jar of bubbles.

 

Oh and by the way, the bubbles wouldn't be blissfully ignorant if the jar wasn't opened. They wouldn't be anything, actually, other than just bubbles. Ignorance implies consciousness.

 

Hm... I suppose they wouldn't serve much usefulness to the world itself - but how many humans actually do? Sure, there are plenty that have been 'useful', as in serving the human population. Authors, actors, presidents/leaders, artists, peace-makers, geniuses that developed laws and theories... but nothing that actually serves the world. They only serve humans.

So bubbles, in their one-second life (which would be a lifetime for them), they could definitely contribute to their own little population, which in a way would be just a smaller scale in time and numbers of our own. But to the world... they'd probably leave little or no impact. x3

But humans also have a big impact on the world. Oil spills, deforestation, wonderful things like that, all impact the world. But also those trying to save it too. The ones planting trees, rebuilding lost habitats - they help the world too. They're useful to the world - like the immune system that tries to keep the "human virus" (Matrix reference :P) in check.