Animal Rights

[Chipmonker]

Do animals have rights? - Directions

For this debate I'll try to moderate (that means organize and keep the debate going) it instead of just throwing

everything together. So READ ME!

 

First off, there are three debate points listed below. Decide whether or not you agree or disagree with each point.

Then through posting a new arguement or relpying to an existing arguement, defend your view to whatever

debate number. Remember the point of this debate is to convince others of your point of view and NOT FLAME them.

• If you agree with the statement you are PRO and if you disagree you are CON. You can agree with one
  point and not agree with another.
  
• You must label which side you are on whenever you post! Do this by typing PRO or CON and the debate number.
  
• Heated debate = Yes. Girly Flaming Contest = No.
  
• Lastly don't be a wuss, stand up for what you believe in.
  

In approx. two weeks time (it depends on the posting activity) we'll vote on which side we think won. But I'll leave

those directions to later. Also the voting will consist of extremely PRO to extremely CON, therefore you don't

need to take an absolute stance. Although it is encouraged that you do so.

 

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Do animals have rights? - Debate

 

Let it be resolved that animals have "rights"! (I flipped a coin to see which way to side the statements)

1. Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals
   
2. It is unacceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment (zoos, racing, etc.)
   
3. Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind
   

Start off by stating your PRO/CON view on (a) debate point(s) and generally defending and persuading others on why you think that. And like I stated before, you don't need to take an absolute, but it is encouraged.

 

 

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Do animals have rights? - Voting

 

Like I said again the voting will not start for a few more weeks, but this is how it will work.

 

There will be three polls - one for #1, one for #2 and one for #3. (All on this thread)

Each poll will have 5 options. (1 - Strongly Agree; 2 - Agree; 3 - Undecided/Abstaining; 4 - Disagree; 5 - Strongly Disagree)

 

Then after 3-4 days of voting, I will announce what TDN has resolved of these issues.

 

http://www.tdnforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2042

[MOPGhost]

Well for #3 they use rats which are common.

[Awesome_Paul]

well for #2, i think i think its right and wrong

 

because farming, of course humans are alowed, its makes a living, and i worjked on a farm for work experience before, the farmers aren't cruel to animals etc, they consider teh animals part of the family etc and take real good care for it

 

but hunting and killing, its wrong for enterainment but if your stuck ina forest, unknown territory and have no food, i think its okay to hunt, but killiing for fun is wron

[MOPGhost]

Zoo's is ok because they teach people to save them and people love to learn up close.

[Chipmonker]

Thanks for posting so quickly

 

CON to 1, 2 and 3 (Will switch to PRO if need be - call me out)

 

Why?

 

Human beings are more complex than any other form of life on the planet. We have complex social attitudes, can think and rationalize ideas, feel emotions more complex than any animal could ever feel and can create beautiful forms of art, music and poetry that reflect our nature. Basically I believe that humans have souls, whilest animal were put on Earth to serve and fulfill our lives.

 

However, it is obvious to try to prevent the suffering, torture or abuse of animals, but other than that animals do not deserve to be have "rights".

 

Specifics -

#1 - It is only natural that as ominvores that we eat meat. Our bodies can't function otherwise. It is also safe to say that when we do eat animals that we do it in a more humane way.

 

#2 - Why not? Animals enrich our lives on this planet. *

 

#3 - It helps better our lives as humans and prevents suffering. * [edit: Hunting for sport is fun. Besides it helps our ecosystems by weeding down the population and giving room for growth]

 

* Done in ways that aren't absolutely cruel.

[Awesome_Paul]

i think i would most likely disagree with this

 

edit: Hunting for sport is fun.

 

if you need to eat then i think hnting is fine, but if you just going hunting just for sport, for entertainment, i reckon that is considered cruel, so for my point of view, is considered to be from the animals point of view:

 

Imaguine you're a fox or deer etc, your enjoying your freedom etc, how the world works, may be gettuing hunted by other animals, but think as the animal point, would it not be cruel, you be enjoying yourself, himan comes along, and shoots teh deer then leaves it, just for entertainment, 1 minute your living life next drop dead. its very cruel

[Mira]

i am a huge animal lover and vegetarian and i am PRO and i agree with #s 1, 2, and 3.

[Chipmonker]

Cruelty? What Cruelty?

 

Shooting an animal is no more crueler than thousands of animals dieing slow and painful deaths due to starvation. Or getting killed by by a coyote. Or by a cars. Or by diseases. Or by pollutants. Or by urbanization.

 

Animals are born to struggle to survive, be hunted by predators, compete for food and resources and have more babies. Animals are born, suck hard and die. The End. You can't deny it. It is the Circle of Life.

 

Get any thought of cruelty out of your head.

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However, hunting for sport

 

1) Protects the Environment

2) Protects the Species

3) Protects Human Intrests

 

One of the most important things to a hunter is the habitat be kept clean, intact and prestine. We know about wild animals and their habitats, their behavior and their population. We, as much as any other group, want to protect our hunting land and animals and we do that. In fact, entire careers are just based off of conserving wild life and ecosystems. That is exactly what the DNR exists to be.

 

(Also no one who is responsible kills and leaves animals - it is wrong. Besides I wouldn't want to be racking up federal offenses)

What? You mean to say that hunters who spend years cultivating in-depth knowledge of wild animals and their habitats might actually know something about ecology and conservation of said animals and habitats? I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!

[Lutarist Jake]

I am still largely undecided. However, I think it should be 2.

[Chipmonker]

i am a huge animal lover and vegetarian and i am PRO and i agree with #s 1, 2, and 3.

I am still largely undecided. However, I think it should be 2.

 

Any reasons/defense-statements as to why you believe that? (I won't bite you ^_^)

[Mira]

Any reasons/defense-statements as to why you believe that? (I won't bite you ^_^)

well i think animals are living things too and not a lot of people think about this much but they actually do have feelings

[Izzy ♥]

1. Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals

2. It is unacceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment (zoos, racing, etc.)

3. Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind

I definately say CON to #1. As Chipmonker said: We're omnivores - our physical characteristics are to eat meat. I agree that it should be done in a humane way, you won't find me arguing with that. But... we're supposed to eat meat, there's just no two ways around it.

 

I'd probably have to say CON to #2 as well - on the condition that the animals are cared for, which, for the most part, they are. Farm dogs usually enjoy working with their owners, and if a horse doesn't like to run, it doesn't, hence it can't be a race horse. I have some issues with zoos but they mostly center around animal well-being and happiness - not the practice itself. There are some wonderful zoos, where the animals can barely tell they are confined - and these are amazing. They teach people about the animals in a way that would never be possible otherwise. Regulation is nessasary - the banning of the practice is not. As for hunting... I don't, and never will, agree with this if its done purely for sport. There are real reasons to do it - food, population control - but not for simple sport. No matter what anyone says, in my opinion, this is cruel. I remember one of my teachers telling us about, I think it was deer, in England. The population was declared "endangered" and hunting of them was banned. Their population numbers grew and eventually almost all of them died from lack of resources - human hunting practices had kept them within their environments limits, once it was removed... This is an example of hunting nessasary for population control.

 

For #3, I am undecided. I am aware that many of the medical drugs and procedures tested on animals save lives. I have no problem with testing these as long as suffering is kept to a minimum. I do have problems with testing things like make-up on animals. Its unnessasary - and completely inappropriate. Humans want to make themselves look prettier? Fine, but the jusification of animal testing applies only to potential life saving treatments, not to beautification. You want it that badly? Test it on yourself.

[kikaown]

#1. Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals

Con: it is human nature to eat animals. I'm not saying that we should hurt the animals (kill them humanely) but, although it is possible to survive without eating animals, they do help our health. CONTROLLED hunting helps keep animal populations within limits, but of course don't go out and start killing everything in sight.

 

#2. It is unacceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment (zoos, racing, etc.)

Middle: some entertainment types, like cock fighting, are completely unacceptable (would we stick random people in a ring and force them to fight?) but something like dog shows are fine, as they do not hurt the animal.

 

#3. Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind

Con: Humans are much more important than animals, and if saving a human means hurting an animal, then it is acceptable. However, if it is for sometime cosmetic and not something important, then no.

 

well i think animals are living things too and not a lot of people think about this much but they actually do have feelings

 

You THINK animals are living things but you KNOW they have feelings? Whether or not I agree with you, it should be the other way around.

[Ellie_Penguin]

Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals: I'd also say CON. It is a fact that we should eat proteins AT LEAST once a week and that includes meat. Sure, we don't have to do it in a brutal way, but we NEED meat. Would you choose between your life or the animal's life?

 

 

It is unacceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment (zoos, racing, etc.): I'd say 50-50. Zoos can be a fun learning experience for the young and as long as the zoo has enough space and they treat animals in the best way, with love and care, then that should be acceptable. Take for example Steve Irwin's zoo, the zoo is HUGE and each animal gets the BEST treatment and A LOT of space. A zoo is a fun place where humans can interact with other animals. But if a zoo isn't in the best of conditions then i'm 100% against it. Basically, if the animals are not well treated, I'm 100% against it.

 

 

Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind: PRO, but I haven't or I just don't remember hearing about a case where they didn't use animal testing to benefit mankind...I'll do my research.

 

 

Animals are here for us to interact with, learn about them and also benefit from them. Imagine if we didn't "kill" animals, the whole world would be too crowded that animals won't have enough space...so there has to be a balance, ALWAYS. Imagine if we didn't die, how the world would be? It's just part of life.

[antiaircraft]

1. Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals - CON:

Meat is one of the main parts of our diet, and one that should not be left out. As long as animals are kept and killed humanely, and not over-domesticated, this is acceptable.

 

2. It is unacceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment (zoos, racing, etc.) - MIXED:

I have no real objection to this, as long as animals are not treated cruelly. Zoos are fine as long as animals are kept in good conditions (i.e. the same/similar conditions to the ones they would have in the wild). Some of these practices, like cock-fighting (as already quoted by kikaown) are completely unacceptable. Hunting for sport is OK but humane killing is important, as is pollution minimization and overall regulation.

 

3. Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind - MIXED:

Only with important things, e.g. cancer treatments, not things like cosmetics that are not really needed. Discomfort should be minimized.

[eggplantlady]

CON to all three. These statements are way too broad.

 

1. We're omnivores. We were made/evolved to eat meat as well as plants. That's just the way life is. And in some places hunting is necessary to thin out the population since humans disposed of all of a species' natural predators (such as deer around here... we'd be up to our necks in starved deer if we didn't hunt them). If some people like it and it needs to be done for the good of the ecosystem, I see nothing wrong with hunting or even enjoying it.

 

2. I'm more mixed on this issue. If the "sport" involves cruelty to the animal I'm against it. But I see nothing wrong with zoos (the kind that have decent conditions and take care of and respect their animals), especially the ones with breeding programs for animals that are endangered or even extinct in their natural habitat. Without zoos, those animals would be lost forever, so how would closing zoos help them?

 

3. Some testing has to be done for drugs and medications, and honestly, I'd prefer it be done on a rat than a human being were something to go wrong. Of course eventually it has to be tested on humans, but the initial tests, when all we have are guesses/hypotheses as to what effect will occur, should be done on something else - something small, that won't suffer long if something goes wrong or has a bad side effect. For other things, things that aren't necessary, like cosmetics, animal testing should be banned.

[Chipmonker]

...These statements are way too broad...

 

I know, I agree. However there are many (that I know of in real life) that are absolutely PRO for all three of those statements. I was really hoping for some people that believe that would be really active in TDN, but I guess I overestimated.

 

Continue on ~ I think I just may start the voting real soon. (Like Sunday-ish)

[Mira]

i think its sad how a lot of people think of animals as just objects that arent alive. and animals do have feelings. in science class there was this book with apes actually sharing love. there were two that were ACTUALLY HUGGING. and i dont believe its natural to eat something that had a soul. we have nuts, fruit, chocolate, garlic bread, chips, cereal, mashed potatoes, and people go for the meat. and for the hunting, UNACCEPTABLE! how would you like it if you were just in your house watching TV, and all of a sudden you see someone in your house and they immediately shoot and kill you. in your own home. thats what hunting is. i think its just sad and heartless.

[Meeptroid]

i think its sad how a lot of people think of animals as just objects that arent alive. and animals do have feelings. in science class there was this book with apes actually sharing love. there were two that were ACTUALLY HUGGING. and i dont believe its natural to eat something that had a soul. we have nuts, fruit, chocolate, garlic bread, chips, cereal, mashed potatoes, and people go for the meat. and for the hunting, UNACCEPTABLE! how would you like it if you were just in your house watching TV, and all of a sudden you see someone in your house and they immediately shoot and kill you. in your own home. thats what hunting is. i think its just sad and heartless.

 

I absolutly adore animals. I got four lizards, two dogs, and a pet goldfish. But it is nesscessary to eat meat. (Unless you are a vegetarian.) I mean, not everyone will become vegetarians and if we all did, animal overpopulation may occur and thousands upon thousands of crops would be eaten. In the Bible, God ordered Noah to bring each animal on the Ark and could be able to eat some of them with his family when the flood is over. So really, God made animals for many reasons and it's okay to eat them if needed for survival. Killing animals for sport is upsetting though.

[Pancreatic dragon]

I am Pro to Number 1, Its the natural order of things, The big meat creatures eat the little meat creatures. Its been that way for millions of years, Why stop now? Please note that this isnt just "Some disgusting human habit". Animals have been doing it for hundreds upon thousands of years.

[Chipmonker]

I am Pro to Number 1, Its the natural order of things, The big meat creatures eat the little meat creatures. Its been that way for millions of years, Why stop now? Please note that this isnt just "Some disgusting human habit". Animals have been doing it for hundreds upon thousands of years.

You're Con

Humans should not be allowed to farm, hunt and eat animals

 

Also Voting is now up - http://www.tdnforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2042

 

Remember when voting that #2 does include all forms of sports/entertainment

and #3 includes all forms of testing that may or may not benefit humans.