To Debate or Not To Debate

[Chipmonker]

Since I do have Anime's permission (she likes to use a lot of words to say yes) we are allowed to discuss the closing of the debate forum.

 

... AS long as it dosen't get out of hand, have one last bit of fun. - Anime from her PM

 

So what do you think about the closing of the debate forums?

 

Remember, it is absolutely important to give reasons as to why you think the debate forums should be closed or not. It isn't beneficial for anyone for someone to post "I don't like debate" and leave.

 

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Now for my bit.

 

I come to post at TDN for a few reasons. One of the specifically being the debate forum and the freedom that could be enjoyed with TDN's approval. I along with other users extremely enjoy the fact that we can exchange and discuss our ideas over the internet especially when that medium happens to be in a Neopets environment. Taking away that privilege is absolutely no fun what-so-ever.

 

One of the reasons (I am supposing) for the closure of the forum is the fact the debates could and did become heated. We do get a thrill out of getting really down into it and just getting mad about it. Those are the people who become our Senators, Representatives and political leaders. However, I do acknowledge that even this can get out of hand and harm can be done (Even though in my personal opinion didn't see any line actually get crossed). I also do think that punishment is just, however I think that any action should be taken against individuals not the community as a whole.

 

But what worries me the most (and again I only observed the aftermath) is that no public warning was given and no -- at least large -- actions taken since the last gay-marriage / abortion topics. And I have yet to find any pre-Christmas public warning.

 

But anyway it quite awful that Ian and the staff have decided to take this path. And I know, atleast for me, I will fight this the entire way.

 

Edit:

I would also like to apologize for any disturbance I may have caused on the opening topic. Like I have said before, I am a stubborn person.

[Ellie_Penguin]

First of all, I would like apologize for any disturbance I may have caused on the other topic.

 

Now, debating is good when you do it the right way. But why punish those who CAN debate? Those people are the "minority". I think they should make the Debate Topic accessible to those who can Debate. Let's say, people with a minimum of let's say 200 posts and by submitting an application promising not to get out of hand or it could result in permanent banning from the topic.

 

A lot of people are quite aware of what a Debate topic is all about. On a Debate topic you will voice your opinion and support your opinion with your 'proof'. It gets out of hand when people take it too personally, start bashing, and get angry just because others didn't agree with them. Those people are the ones who need to get a warning, and not the good debaters. Let's take for example the Neopets Debate topic and pretend 5 people have broken the rules there. Would it be fair to delete it because of those 5 people?

 

Seriously, if you don't like to debate or you don't like it when people don't agree with you. Just don't go to the Debate forum. A lot of people have stayed away from there because they know what it is all about. If we're deleting topics because a minority broke the rules, then we might as well delete every topic in the forum.

[.Dan.]

The 200 post thing is a good idea, some n00by newbies ruin it for everyone.

[Fuzio]

I know exactly who you're speaking of. It was obvious he/she wanted attention and start a confrontation by entering, stating their opinion and then letting everyone know they don't care what they think and they aren't returning. Beyond childish.

 

I disagree on the 200 posts thing. Myself as a reason.

 

I have a lot of experience in debating, civil rights activism, politics and religion. It's something I've loved since, who knows when. I don't post on many other topics. I don't get out of hand or upset. I just like to see others 'attempt' making a valid point on some topics (such as gay rights), and it's humorous to see them attempt it.

 

I just think things should be very strict in this part of the forum. People, especially younger people, get heated and upset very easily for no reason.

 

I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing with someone and not getting upset. But, I still have a certain opinion about some staff of this website due to their kiddie insults towards me. I doubt much will be done really.

[Foxy!]

Yeah, the 200 post thing is a good idea. I do wish that we could have a debate forum, because it's good to be able to hear otheer's opinions on important (or less than important) topics. It's beneficial to your educated opinion to hear every side of an argument.

[Superfly]

If you were to do the 200 post thing, and have to submit an application, wouldn't that case MORE work for the staff at TDN. They would have to review the applications, and edit controls on accounts almost everyday.

 

I personally did not like the debate forum, when people did just post, I disagree, I don't like ____ *(insert topic there)*. It was sometimes a fun place to discuss and debate things, in the past. Recently it has gotten way to out of control, and so therefore I agree with the decision to close down the forum.

[Fuzio]

I think it would be more appropriate simply for staff to moderate the forum better and take control / warn those who get out of line.

[Superfly]

Again, more work for the staff. I think what was said that one of the main reasons that forum is closing is the fact that is causes problems sometimes. TDN is (I hope I got this correct) the 3rd largest Neopets Help Site out there. So, with that said remember that these forums are open to ANYONE, so if there is a visitor on the site, they come to the forums and see people fighing over something as silly as "Cookies" just for an example. What are they going to think about TDN. They are crazy and out of control, I'm going somewhere else.

 

EDIT: What I mean by more work for the staff, they have lifes too you know, they should NOT have to sit on the debates forums ALL DAY watching to make sure each and every person doesn't break a little rule. It would be much simplier just to close them, as it being done.

[Fuzio]

Yes, how dare the staff actually have to moderate these forums.

 

I doubt it's the 3rd largest. These forums are quite slow. I've been told by another staffer it's the 4th most 'visited', which I also doubt. Maybe on certain top site lists but I know my fan sites. I used to run 3 or 4 of them.

 

They don't need to be sitting there all day to moderate.

 

I can say, not that anyone would care or it matters, but I won't be returning without a debate forum. -shrugs- These forums are slow and not many other things to talk about.

[Superfly]

Yes, how dare the staff actually have to moderate these forums.

 

I didn't say that. I explained what i mean by it in my edit. I think they do a great job at moderating these forums, but they shouldn't have to sit on the debates forum all day, or make shifts so that they know someone is covering it at all times.

[Ian]

My reasons for closing the debate forum are extensive (please read this FULL POST - it's very important).

 

The first thing on my mind is the fact that the debate forum has been a major source (not "the" source) of most of the grudges and rude behavior flying around these forums. I'm sad to say that it has gotten progressively worse. Due to the fact that many of the people on these forums are kids, yes, they do not know how to intelligently debate, so in turn it rips apart the community. Many people do not know how to deal with opposition and then they just go nuts and get mad. This is a community and we're going for a community feel here. Debates have not proven themselves to help this.

 

And for goodness sakes, this is a Neopets help site. It's almost completely off topic for us to discuss abortion, illegal immigration, and all of that jazz. People come to us for Neopets help - not a good political debate. And because nowadays people are incredibly close-minded, debates do not do any good. Additionally, there are no actual debate judges like they have in real life that is an objective mediator. And because of this, debates are never ending and a winner will never be declared. So essentially they are pointless.

 

So, no, I am not closing the debate forum because one person squealed and had a fight. You guys just don't have that much power. :P I'm not closing the debates forum because I'm a coward and don't know how to handle something. I'm closing the debates forum because it's ripping apart the community.

 

However, good news for you! If somebody is an intelligent debater and wishes to be the moderator specifically of the debate forum nearly 24/7, please PM me and we can keep the debates forum open (applicant must use very good grammar/complete sentences, must be objective, and must be mature). :) If somebody does step up to the plate and is hired, we'll put some restrictions on the debate forum and perhaps applications will be required an order to gain access to the debates forum.

[Parshy]

all of those rules are really good ian

[Fuzio]

Well, there aren't winners in debates. Debates are just ways to explain and make known, your opinion on topics. Some people get upset because it involves their beliefs and most 'religious' people strongly dislike anyone who opposes their beliefs. (from my experiences)

 

Also, there are numerous sections of the forums not related to Neopets. So I don't see why we can't debate about things not related to Neopets. I just think strongly "moderating" (can't think of a better word) would help.

 

I would gladly apply as a moderator to the Debate section. Granted, I cannot do it 24/7, but I am online quite frequently. XD

 

-shrugs-

 

Your decision.

 

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Addition:

The only problem I've had on the debate forum is with a certain user who continues to claim I believe one thing, when I've obviously stated another and they're obviously getting heated about it. Quite an annoyance really but -shrugs- I've dealt with worse in real life. lol

 

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, but when it goes from a civil debate to a low class argument, that's when I get annoyed and just leave. lol

[Mike.]

I know exactly who you're speaking of. It was obvious he/she wanted attention and start a confrontation by entering, stating their opinion and then letting everyone know they don't care what they think and they aren't returning. Beyond childish.

 

I disagree on the 200 posts thing. Myself as a reason.

 

I have a lot of experience in debating, civil rights activism, politics and religion. It's something I've loved since, who knows when. I don't post on many other topics. I don't get out of hand or upset. I just like to see others 'attempt' making a valid point on some topics (such as gay rights), and it's humorous to see them attempt it.

 

I just think things should be very strict in this part of the forum. People, especially younger people, get heated and upset very easily for no reason.

 

I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing with someone and not getting upset. But, I still have a certain opinion about some staff of this website due to their kiddie insults towards me. I doubt much will be done really.

 

You are all making very nice and educated points. I love it. But on the 200 post thing, I say there should be a limit like that. Mainly so people don't come here to argue, that they're here mainly for the forums.

[The Big Cheese]

Yes the 200 posts thing is definitly a good idea, so is hiring moderators for the debates forum. To me, that seems like the best decision.

[Fuzio]

Well, I am here only for the forums.

 

I don't visit 'fan sites' nor have a use for them. Actually, I mostly hate fan sites. Sick of them after I got through with mine. lol

 

But, like I said. I'm not about to sit and talk til I get 200 posts simply so I can debate. :P Not much else to talk about here.

[Ian]

Fire me off some applications with your past experiences in Neopets fan sites and debating. :) Also, include how you would handle difficult situations with difficult members without being unreasonable or rude.

[grass_tiger]

I don't visit fan sites either - no time for them.

 

I think the 200 posts idea may be good. It takes about that many posts for a person to get the feel of what the board is like and basically who is here. I think it is harder to misunderstand someone if you've interacted with them on a less heated topic first.

[Ellie_Penguin]

Ian, those are really good ideas. And that's exactly why I recommended the 200 posts; to get to know other people and know how they post, so there won't be misunderstandings.

[Chipmonker]

I applied for the position - can't say that was the easiest thing I have ever done. :sick01:

 

And thanks to everyone who posted here :D Ment a lot.

[WEVIL]

Ah maybe I still have a chance to post here...

 

I understand the whole community being ripped apart worry but I believe that aside from a few people the debate forum is a great place to discuss opinions and vouch for or against them. The debate sections of the forums here at TDn is really the only reason I stay here because its great to argue with some intelligent people once in a while. Yes sometimes it does get out of hand (even I lose my cool sometimes and forget common courtesy) but I believe a group of moderators (not 1 i think thats a bit too little) will be able to keep this in control and help the debate forums from becoming a forum for flaming others.

[Ellie_Penguin]

I also forgot to say that it's either a Neopets site or a mix. Because if the Debate forum is being deleted also because it isn't Neopets-related, then everything else that isn't about Neopets should also be deleted (keep in mind that people also break the rules regardless of the topic name).

[WEVIL]

I handed in my application...

 

Yes the Debate forums of TDN is not the only topic that is not related to Neopets...

[Ellie_Penguin]

The use of the shoutbox should not be abused. You have this as a privilege; don't loose it.

 

I've seen people who have abused the shoutbox even more times than the Debate topic (yea sorry, I'm just trying to make it fair for everyone). So I think we've all lost that privilege already.

[Samuel]

The debates are the end. Trust me, I was as outraged as you, and it's not 100% gone; but there is a need for it. Unfortunately, members here are younger, and it's not sustainable at this point to debate controversial issues with them. There's been a debate amongst staff regarding debates, but it's been decided that they just won't work, for now. Perhaps we could start up a debating club, which is protected by password, but there wouldn't be many people in it ;)

 

There's plenty to come from TDN in 2007. In the first few weeks of January, we're relaunching a totally new, cool site. We're looking forward to giving away stuff. We'll have more arcade games, perhaps we might even install a shop on the forums; it'll all be discussed. It's not the end, by a long shot. :)