The New Korean Conflict

[Cornflakes]

So now Obama's got us involved in this North vs South conflict.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_north_korea

 

Like we really NEED to be involved in this!

 

Those two have been sniping at each other for years. In my opinion, they need to just fight it out and get over it.

 

And besides, South Korea actually fired first!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101124/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_clash

 

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm excusing Kim Jong Il from acting like an utter d-bag and shelling South Korean civilians in retaliation. Sigh. That guy needs to just retire/die/be assassinated/get eaten by hyenas already.

 

Lastly, did Obama think about who North Korea's ally is? As in, China? That HUGE country with 1.3 BILLION people and the second smallest nuclear arsenal in the world?! Not to mention they're Communists, and we all know how Communists feel about America.

 

I am scared! Does anyone else want to talk about it?

[CAV of Gang Green]

Once again, America stuck it's nose where it didn't belong. God I hate this country. Why can't we be like Canada, neutral and peaceful?

 

North and South Korea did in fact fight (see: Korean War), and fighting still continues today, in minor outbreaks. This is like one of those outbreaks, only much, much bigger. With us getting involved, and China on NK's side, I REALLY wouldn't be surprised if a country gets nuked.

 

China is a dangerous foe. We got lucky with Iran. I doubt we can get out of this one.

 

And I think you mean second largest, not smallest.

 

In short: we're doomed.

[Cornflakes]

North and South Korea did in fact fight (see: Korean War)

 

Ah yes, I am aware of the Korean Conflict, aka the Korean War. Hence, I named this thread "The New Korean Conflict," see. :P

 

But anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one that's not all gung-ho about getting into ANOTHER war. There are no winners, there's only degrees of losing.

[CAV of Gang Green]

Exactly. Like the tagline of AvP, "No matter who wins, we lose."

 

No matter who wins the war, the citizens of the country lose. War is costly, and the innocent get charged with the bill.

[Caly]

And besides, South Korea actually fired first!

 

Depends on who you ask. Yes, South Korea was doing military drills off the coast but they didn't hit North Korean civilians.

 

Those two have been sniping at each other for years. In my opinion, they need to just fight it out and get over it.

 

Bad idea.

 

Both Koreas are pretty small, not much land to hide in if they decided to go to war. Besides, Seoul, the capital and the central nervous system of South Korea is approximately 30km from the border. They fight, Seoul will be decimated. Oh and most of its people too.

 

Most likely this will all blow over... just like with the sunken warship in March I think it was...-_-

[Cornflakes]

Most likely this will all blow over... just like with the sunken warship in March I think it was...-_-

 

Yeah I remembered something about that, but I couldn't remember exactly what happened so I neglected to mention it so as to not make myself look like a dummy. :)

 

Depends on who you ask. Yes, South Korea was doing military drills off the coast but they didn't hit North Korean civilians.

 

See that's the attitude the media is getting and it's irritating. "Yeah, well, South Korea fired first...but KIM JONG IL IS SO AWFUL and blah blah blah and we're disappointed in him and so on and so forth." Well yeah he's awful, but South Korea shouldn't have fired. Period. It's one of life's general rules that the one who throws the first punch is always the one that deserves to be in trouble. So S. Korea fired, and now they're like "nah nah nah nah nah nah" and running behind the US to protect them. Pfft, never write a check that your butt can't cash! That's my personal philosophy, anyway.

 

Both Koreas are pretty small, not much land to hide in if they decided to go to war. Besides, Seoul, the capital and the central nervous system of South Korea is approximately 30km from the border. They fight, Seoul will be decimated. Oh and most of its people too.

 

This is true. But South Korea should have thought of that before they attacked the North. Kim Jong Il went too far killing civilians, yes. But the two countries need to settle this garbage and the U.S. should stay out of it. That's really what's bothering me -- that the Obama administration has just up and decided to go getting into their fight.

 

*I just wanted to say that I'm not trying to be litigious really. I don't want to scare everyone away from the topic. :) I think I'm just freaking out a little. The Chinese frighten me. I really hope Caly is right, and that this doesn't go very far. :'(

[RayHumbert]

Um, I'm not sure how accurate are my facts but wasn't the first korean war a proxy war between USA and USSR?

 

IMO, the US is acting like a superpower by putting a stop to NK nonsense.

 

China on the other hand, hmm.., apparently is still having a hissy fit over the nobel peace prize. I agree with you, China is frightening and that is coming from a Chinese.

[Caly]

Well yeah he's awful, but South Korea shouldn't have fired. Period. It's one of life's general rules that the one who throws the first punch is always the one that deserves to be in trouble. So S. Korea fired, and now they're like "nah nah nah nah nah nah" and running behind the US to protect them. Pfft, never write a check that your butt can't cash! That's my personal philosophy, anyway.

 

But they didn't throw the first punch... more so than usual. It's a routine drill off in the Yellow Sea. Saying that S.K. threw the first punch is basically telling them that they don't have the right to defend themselves... especially since the Korean War never ended.

 

To be fair though, the only reason that the Yeonpyung (I'm not sure that's romanized correctly, but that's the island that got bombed) is that the Korean military were being lax and failed to notice the obvious guns, cannons and missiles being set up on the North Korean coast.

 

But I don't see them running behind the US...

 

This is true. But South Korea should have thought of that before they attacked the North. Kim Jong Il went too far killing civilians, yes. But the two countries need to settle this garbage and the U.S. should stay out of it. That's really what's bothering me -- that the Obama administration has just up and decided to go getting into their fight.

 

South Korea did not attack North Korea.

 

They're too vulnerable as it is. Reports are coming in that the bombing itself was a premeditated but I'm not sure about that.

 

This 'garbage' has been going on for sixty years and counting and U.S. is in the thick of it. It's a nice idea, but pretty impossible at this point for the U.S. to actually pack up and get out of the country. Korean peninsula is actually a geographically strategic point on a map. Which is why South Korea is hosting an American army base in the first place.

 

Um, I'm not sure how accurate are my facts but wasn't the first korean war a proxy war between USA and USSR?

 

Pretty much, that's how I understand it. I could also be all ironic-like and say the US is reaping what they sowed with North Korea hah... but USSR and USA decided at the end of WWII to split Korea in two, US got the South, USSR got the North and the rest is history as they say. :graduated:

[Unstream]

Lastly, did Obama think about who North Korea's ally is? As in, China? That HUGE country with 1.3 BILLION people and the second smallest nuclear arsenal in the world?! Not to mention they're Communists, and we all know how Communists feel about America.

North and South Korea did in fact fight (see: Korean War), and fighting still continues today, in minor outbreaks. This is like one of those outbreaks, only much, much bigger. With us getting involved, and China on NK's side, I REALLY wouldn't be surprised if a country gets nuked.

 

China is a dangerous foe. We got lucky with Iran. I doubt we can get out of this one.

Guys, really, I don't know why there's this fear of China here in the U.S., but there really shouldn't be. Here's why:

 

1) We won't fight with China. Why? Because China and the U.S. need each other, believe it or not. Without China, the prices of everything goes up, hurting the economy. Without the U.S., China loses tons of jobs because the jobs from exporting and manufacturing largely depend on the U.S. and our willingness to buy their products.

 

2) China isn't even on NK's side. Sure, they're "allies", but China sees them more as business partners. And to even quote one of your original articles:

North Korea has also resisted pressure from its major ally, China, which appears to be nervous about the signs of instability in its neighbor.

3) China can hardly be considered Communist anymore. It's actually pretty weird. It's politically Communist, but economically Capitalist. And no, they don't "hate" America. In fact, Communists don't "hate" America either.

 

4) I'm pretty sure Russia still has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. And they're our ally.

 

5) U.S. has always been by SK's side. There have been U.S. troops stationed at the NK/SK border ever since the war. This really isn't that uncommon. U.S. support of SK was expected.

 

Really, guys, China shouldn't frighten you. That fear is completely unfounded and will only lead to further ridiculous conflicts (something similar to the Red Scare and this current fear of Islam). Politics and economics simply won't allow it.

[Cornflakes]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101124/wl_afp/nkoreaskoreamilitarynuclearweapons

 

So now we're playing some fun wargames with the South.

Perhaps the North will see this and back off, and this whole thing will die down.

 

*fingers and toes crossed*

[CAV of Gang Green]

IMO, the US is acting like a superpower by putting a stop to NK nonsense.

 

Actually, the US is the only superpower in the world. But we are abusing that power.

 

1) We won't fight with China. Why? Because China and the U.S. need each other, believe it or not. Without China, the prices of everything goes up, hurting the economy. Without the U.S., China loses tons of jobs because the jobs from exporting and manufacturing largely depend on the U.S. and our willingness to buy their products.

 

Really, guys, China shouldn't frighten you. That fear is completely unfounded and will only lead to further ridiculous conflicts (something similar to the Red Scare and this current fear of Islam). Politics and economics simply won't allow it.

 

Yes, we need our plastic cheap crap. :P

 

I didn't say I was afraid of China. And I didn't say that China or US would get nuked. But one of these days, a country will, weither it'd be Iran, NK, Israel, etc.

[Cornflakes]

I said I am afraid of China. I'm not trying to be racist or anything about it. I fear any country that has billions of people that murder their baby girls in favor of sons.

[Unstream]

I said I am afraid of China. I'm not trying to be racist or anything about it. I fear any country that has billions of people that murder their baby girls in favor of sons.

Yeah I was referring to her.

 

Of course, never mind the fact that it's just abortion, which also happens here in the U.S., but simply because people don't want to have to pay for their babies. And the fact that this son preference isn't really the case anymore now that the one-child policy has been abolished and that even before then it was a very small minority.

 

Y'know fear is probably one of the main reasons why we can't have world peace?

[Caly]

And the fact that this son preference isn't really the case anymore now that the one-child policy has been abolished and that even before then it was a very small minority.

 

I thought it was more of a registration problem like how if you have a daughter and a son, you'll report your son's birth but not your daughter's because the one-child policy had been in place.

 

I've always wondered though, what happens if you have twins? =?

[CAV of Gang Green]

Yeah I was referring to her.

 

Y'know fear is probably one of the main reasons why we can't have world peace?

 

Oh. You said "guys" and you quoted me, so I thought you were talking to me as well.

 

If we fear, we won't have world peace. But you have those big threatining countries (US, China, Russia) that aren't so bad, but people get scared of them. To get rid of fear, we have to get rid of the weapons, particularly the nuclear arms.

 

I've always wondered though, what happens if you have twins? =?

 

Now that the policy is lifted, nothing.

[Kuroida]

I'm chinese....born in china...and I have tons of Korean friends....and no American friends....so forgive me if I'm biased o.0

 

But my PERSONAL opinion (I'm not American either) is that Obama is trying to hype up his image since he's getting lots of pressure to do something "big" (tbh I always thought you americans to have really high hopes for him. He's just one man!) Anyways, if I was American I'd think he should mind his own business. But from an outside perspective we think it's "honorable" and it sets and example for the rest of the world

 

I said I am afraid of China. I'm not trying to be racist or anything about it. I fear any country that has billions of people that murder their baby girls in favor of sons.

 

And if that were true I'd be dead XD

 

But seriously, infanticide is supposed to be illegal and you can have more than one kid. You just have to pay. The world's about money...which leads into the christmas debate so I'll end it here :P

 

 

 

Now that the policy is lifted, nothing.

 

The govt says that the policy is still in affect until like another decade but I don't think the new gen really care....that's why we move...to places like Canada :P

[Caly]

I saw the news this evening, it looks like China's changed it's tune from "exercise restraint" to "what is wrong with you North Korea".

 

Obviously paraphrased due to the fact that I'm a shoddy translator :D

 

Apparently, artillery fire could be heard on the island of Yeonpyung around 3pm-ish local time on Friday. No attacks were reported so they think that North Korea was just practicing a drill inland. The stock market is down in South Korea and the won has weakened against the dollar according to the latest report.

 

If it's an attempt to drag the South Korean economy down, clever North Korea, but the rest of Asia/Oceania was affected as well >.>;;

 

...and who will feed you guys then?

[Cornflakes]

I saw the news this evening, it looks like China's changed it's tune from "exercise restraint" to "what is wrong with you North Korea".

 

From what I understand, China's position is more like "Both of y'all stop it...and the U.S. needs to stay out of here or they're going to make everything worse."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/koreas.crisis/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29

...which is exactly how I see it. The U.S. needs to stay out of it, period.

 

Curious, the comments regarding my comment about China's infanticide - I have only heard "it's abortion" in response (which isn't the whole story) but no one else has denied it. You can be upset at me for saying it, but there's a ring of truth. In addition to murder, they abandon the girls or do the nice thing and give them up for adoption. And, by the way, there's no such thing as "oh it's just abortion." Abortion IS murder. Period. And still doesn't excuse the mindset of the Chinese people, of which I fear. So the government has a one-child policy, and you have a baby girl? Get over it. *rolls eyes*

 

Sigh...and then I read this:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101126/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_clash

 

You know we (the U.S.) are going to end up going over there and smoking them fools. Well, I hope it's brief. I hope it doesn't drag out for twenty years like the "Iraq War" (including Operation Desert Storm).

[CAV of Gang Green]

I saw the news this evening, it looks like China's changed it's tune from "exercise restraint" to "what is wrong with you North Korea".

 

I laughed upon seeing that.

 

The way I see it is as follows:

 

NK: You're a doodoo pie!

SK: You're a fart face! I can't believe I'm related to you by second part of name! (Korea)

US: HEY! Knock it off! You're bugging the world, quit it.

NK: Don't make me angry! You won't like me when I'm angry!

China: All of you, cut the crap.

[Unstream]

Curious, the comments regarding my comment about China's infanticide - I have only heard "it's abortion" in response (which isn't the whole story) but no one else has denied it. You can be upset at me for saying it, but there's a ring of truth. In addition to murder, they abandon the girls or do the nice thing and give them up for adoption. And, by the way, there's no such thing as "oh it's just abortion." Abortion IS murder. Period. And still doesn't excuse the mindset of the Chinese people, of which I fear. So the government has a one-child policy, and you have a baby girl? Get over it. *rolls eyes*

Well whether or not abortion is murder is another topic :P

 

But infanticide is a thing of the past. I mean, no country has a clean history. Did you know America used to have concentration camps for the Japanese? It was during WWII, to "protect" them from society, but the living conditions there were actually very poor. Not has bad as the Jews had it in Nazi Germany, but still pretty bad. And they were forced to leave their homes, by the way.

 

And you don't really understand, because the whole having-a-son thing is something cultural that goes back centuries (several millennia, actually). A son carries your family name, and if you don't have a son, your family dies (because the daughter takes the name of her husband). Plus, a son is basically who's supposed to inherit most of everything and continue the family. Without understanding thousands of years of cultural, religious, and philosophical background, there's no way you could ever understand the rational for really wanting a son.

 

Of course, I'm not justifying it. It's wrong, definitely, but you should still understand why, and why they saw it as something they had to do.

 

But yeah, now that the one-child policy is abolished (you just have to pay a small fee for consecutive children), and that China is becoming more westernized (so traditions and such dying away), infanticide just doesn't happen anymore.

 

----------------------------

 

And back on topic, I think the U.S. should definitely back up SK. Avoid a war if possible, but it's pretty much inevitable...

[CAV of Gang Green]

The US shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. But since it would be difficult to back out on this one, I agree with Will. Back up with SK. At least make sure that barging into someone else's business wasn't a total waste. Cause when it does, it makes you look stupid.

[Caly]

From what I understand, China's position is more like "Both of y'all stop it...and the U.S. needs to stay out of here or they're going to make everything worse."

 

I watch the Korean news as well as BBC and CNN and since it was a personal attack for South Koreans, they seem to go more in depth about the whole situation. South Korea was surprised that the usually indifferent China stepped forward to publicly condemn North Korea though but I can't prove this either way since well... here's the article http://news.joinsmsn.com/article/569/4717569.html?ctg=1000&cloc=joongang|home|special

 

If anyone can read chinese though http://www.huanqiu.com/ is supposedly the paper it came from.

 

Are they reputable or what? Any native chinese speakers still following this board?

 

I don't even know if that's Cantonese or Mandrine @_@

[Kuroida]

It's written the same XD And so many links @_@ I have no clue where to find the article. You linked it to the front page which changes every day (I'm assuming) o.0

 

 

Anyways. Since this doesn't affect me at all I'm not really sure what the US is doing now. All I know is that this:

 

I laughed upon seeing that.

 

The way I see it is as follows:

 

NK: You're a doodoo pie!

SK: You're a fart face! I can't believe I'm related to you by second part of name! (Korea)

US: HEY! Knock it off! You're bugging the world, quit it.

NK: Don't make me angry! You won't like me when I'm angry!

China: All of you, cut the crap.

 

had me rolling on the floor laughing XD

 

Oh and Canada's still being meek about everything. On the news people are wondering when/if canada's going to do anything...which starts me thinking that what I said earlier was true. US got involved to set an example and raise the bar of expectations (because most of the time. whatever the states do we have to do too...)

 

And the china abortion thing....I'm not saying i support it but if I were to only be allowed have one child and I run say a family farm, business whatever I would definitely want a boy. I think you need to be in the mindset of the people to understand. China's still got it's own little "colonies" (no clue what the right word is). and some of them are still very....old school (also don't know the right word) XD They just get overshadowed by the big industrial cities and stuff which are way more westernized.

[Cornflakes]

Wow...support for the "let's throw away the girls in favor of the boys" mentality...

I am shocked and appalled that any rational person could even try to excuse this horror.

It's like saying "Oh, Hitler killed the Jews, and that's bad, but it's understandable because white people are better."

[Seliphra]

First of all, I agree with you, I don't like the idea of abortion, BUT I am pro-choice. I don't think it's right to have an abortion just because you'd rather have a boy, HOWEVER I do see the value in having a male child when it comes to say running a farm. I think though that the Chinese are undervaluing women in other roles, like say, executives.

As for your second comment, abortion is FAR from the same as the Holocaust, and most Jews ARE white.