K - Here is where you vote on what you think and where we get closure.

 

Voting has ended.

 

http://www.tdnforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1935

 

Results

If these statments were bills and majority ruled;

 

1) The bill would not have passed. (1 Yay - 9 Nays - 3 Abstaining)

 

2) The bill would not have passed. (4 Yay - 7 Nay - 2 Abstaining)

 

3) The bill would not have passed. HOWEVER it would have been defeated by the narrowest of margins!

(5 Yay - 5 Nay - 2 Abstaining)

GRRRR! THIS IS MAKING ME SOUND LIKE A HIPPIE BIT I DONT WANT TO BE A HIPPIE BECAUSE THEY HAVE BAD PERONAL HYGENE!

I think it's pretty ridiculous to strongly agree (or disagree) with these statements without some sort of condition. I mean, most primates eat plants and fruit only... humans evolved to eat meat, I believe in order to support our relatively large brain size. Biologically speaking, it's built into us to eat meat, to hunt and kill other animals to provide food for ourselves. On the other hand, the other two statements could involve unnecessary cruelty to the animals, but it's difficult to be entirely against them because some good can come from zoos and testing medicines, for example.

I disagree that it's unacceptable to keep animals for sports and entertainment because first of all, that would cross pets out of our lives. If you agree to evrything on the polls, you are pretty much putting a barrier between animals and humans.

You already know what my opinion is....

I think it's pretty ridiculous to strongly agree (or disagree) with these statements without some sort of condition. I mean, most primates eat plants and fruit only... humans evolved to eat meat, I believe in order to support our relatively large brain size. Biologically speaking, it's built into us to eat meat, to hunt and kill other animals to provide food for ourselves. On the other hand, the other two statements could involve unnecessary cruelty to the animals, but it's difficult to be entirely against them because some good can come from zoos and testing medicines, for example.

 

That's why I'm leaving YOU to decide what you think is right and wrong. :evil:

 

On one hand, humans were created to eat meat. One the other hand, there is the possibility that killing the animals may be done in an inhumane way. I want you to decide what is more important than the other.

 

For example, PETA thinks it is absolutely wrong to kill any animal any way. I don't and that is why I'm strongly against any restrictions against eating animal by products. (And coincidently that almost got me strangled by some PETA members at a JSA debate x_x )

 

Also I'd like to clarify something else up - Animals should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit mankind

Even though I voted No opinion for the 1st one, the poll was a bit weird.

 

Here's a hint why.

 

Are monkeys animals? Yes.

Are humans related to monkeys? Yes.

Then, are humans animals? Yes.

 

Therefore, you are saying that humans should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit humans. That's more than a bit weird.

Lol @ waiwai ... good point.

I am a vegetarian, and fairly involved in my local animal organizations but I couldn't with a good conscience agree with the first question....if people want to eat meat or not, that's a personal decision. I hate it when people get their panties in a bunch over the fact that some people choose not to eat the flesh of living creatures, and try to tell us that we have to eat meat blah blah. I can choose not to, just like other people can choose to farm and hunt etc. The others I agree with though.

Lol @ waiwai ... good point.

I am a vegetarian, and fairly involved in my local animal organizations but I couldn't with a good conscience agree with the first question....if people want to eat meat or not, that's a personal decision. I hate it when people get their panties in a bunch over the fact that some people choose not to eat the flesh of living creatures, and try to tell us that we have to eat meat blah blah. I can choose not to, just like other people can choose to farm and hunt etc. The others I agree with though.

 

I agree with you, but the rest of the people who are vegetarians are doing the exact same with the people who like to eat meat at least once a week. They tell them it is bad and it makes them "evil", yet the meat lovers cannot say anything to them? There has to be a balance here so that both sides are happy. Maybe limiting the amount of hunting? Or increasing the sizes of Zoos by law, for example? If both sides work together, they will both win. But if they just attack each other, then we're getting nowhere.

Even though I voted No opinion for the 1st one, the poll was a bit weird.

 

Here's a hint why.

 

Are monkeys animals? Yes.

Are humans related to monkeys? Yes.

Then, are humans animals? Yes.

 

Therefore, you are saying that humans should not be used to test drugs and products that may or may not benefit humans. That's more than a bit weird.

 

Usually in biology class, Animal = Kingdom Animalia.

However in non-uber-scientific normal conversations, Human does not equal Animal. The word 'Animals' refers to lower non-human lifeforms.

 

Anyway, results from the voting data (past the deadline)

 

1) TDN agrees that it is acceptable to farm, hunt and eat animals. (And this of course came with a lot of comments on the humanity in which the animals died)

 

2) TDN agrees (over 50%) that it is also acceptable to use animals as objects of sport and entertainment.

 

3) TDN is 100% split on the testing of animals that may or may not benefit humans.

The "using animals as objects of sport and entertainment" is slightly misunderstood, I believe. I think what it is referring to is circuses, zoos, and horse racing. Things such as that.

 

Keeping a pet, or animal companion, is different because you aren't particularly doing anything to the animal than letting it live with you. You feed it well, give it water, give it toys and treats and love. I don't even chain my dog, hell, he knows he has it so well at my house he just comes back to the door without being called. ^^

Well, i eat meat, and i dunno what to say about them. But i know they shouldnt be use as testing thingys.

My first post in like months and I'm ready to create havoc!

 

First, humans should definitely be allowed to farm, hunt, and eat animals.

Meat is a huge part of nearly everyone's diet despite the large population of vegetarians out there the majority of people in America is meat-eaters. You cant just tell them to stop farming the meat that millions of people eat everyday. This argument goes with the eating part. Theres just so many people that eat meat and you cant really help that. And honestly, its just a cow or pig your eating, not a human. For hunting, hunting is an essential part of controlling animal population. Yes, hunting can get out of hand sometimes and can lead to endangered species but without regular but controlled hunting of some animals, an overpopualtion of these animals would result and serious consequences would ensue. Hunting allows us to control the population and prevents there from being a nest of racoons in every trash can on the street and there from being hundreds of deer in the middle of every interstate highway that has woods next to it.

 

I believe that animals should be used for sports an entertainment although it also depends on what sport you are speaking of. Hunting animals is definitely a worldwide sport. They even have seperate channels for events such as deer,duck, moose, and other forms of hunting. If you are trying to outlaw such sports where animals are forced to fight each other agaisnt their will, then yes this is a sport that should be banned. Problem is that these kinds of sports are already banned but still occur throughout America because there is no form of security to enforce the law and find these illegal organizations and no matter how hard it is to accept, this is the truth.

 

Animals SHOULD DEFINETLEY be used for drug testing. Absolutley no question about it. Why? Because it's to help us. You might be saying, "But what about the little animals that we use these drugs on?" I'm sorry but if you want to approach scientific advancement with that point of view, nothing would ever get done. Lab animals are an essential part of science and one lab rat can save millions of human lives. Its either them or us.

 

My final two cents on this discussion is that althogh animals have minds of their own, they are animals and we are humans. Organizations like PETA (which I despise with a passion) wish to make America a place where animals are of more importance than humans and would rather kill a human being then an animal. This I believe is going overboard and although I don't want to sound heartless. Humans > Animals. That's it. If I had to kill all the cute little puppies, cats, cows, and any other cute-looking animal in the world to save a human being, I would not hesitate and make the choice to save the human.

 

Jeez that was a long post, I'll proofread this but that's all on what I think of this issue. :D

FLAME ME! :D

This is going to make me sound really mean, but whatever.

 

Think about it. If we did not test on animals to make sure products are safe then we are endangering the human race. I would rather animals be in danger.

 

I do disagree with people who support inhumane acts such as a bull fight. Torturing then killing an animal for pleasure is wrong. Even though they do use the bull meat to feed people, it's still wrong.

I agree with you, but the rest of the people who are vegetarians are doing the exact same with the people who like to eat meat at least once a week. They tell them it is bad and it makes them "evil", yet the meat lovers cannot say anything to them? There has to be a balance here so that both sides are happy. Maybe limiting the amount of hunting? Or increasing the sizes of Zoos by law, for example? If both sides work together, they will both win. But if they just attack each other, then we're getting nowhere.

But meat lovers always come up to us and say stuff like "Mmmmm meat!" and "I love to eat meat!" and I've had a few times when people have taken raw meat and waved it in my face and try to rub it on me. It might not seem as bad to meat eaters but at least for me, it's very annoying.