The Seven Kings

[Lutarist Jake]

I read from a website called 'World's last chance' about the seven Kings, as prophesized in Revelations 17. This is what they say are the Kings (King 7 has not arrived yet):

 

 

Here is Revelations 17, by the way:

 

And there came one of the seven angels... saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

 

Is this true?

[.Dan.]

Depends on your point of view I suppose.If you're religiously inclined,then you might believe it. Me,being an atheist thingy (non-religious),I'd say it's just a snippet of the Bible,nothing more.

[Erika]

I beleive it more or less... like it was said, depends on your point of view

[Empress Keiko]

I'm not exactly the religious type....but like everyone has said depends on your point of view for religion.

[Ellie_Penguin]

Well, where did you get it from? I'm a religious person, but those things are not to be taken literally. It really depends on your beliefs. In my case, I believe in it.

[Lutarist Jake]

I'm scared...the world COULD end soon.

[Empress Keiko]

I'm scared...the world COULD end soon.

 

you know, I really DO doubt it.

[Ellie_Penguin]

well in my religion it says that the world will "end" when people start to accept Christians. You know, when they stop bashing us.

[Lutarist Jake]

well in my religion it says that the world will "end" when people start to accept Christians. You know, when they stop bashing us.

Really? What denomination are you from?

[.Dan.]

I think it means that Ellie's Christian..

[Lutarist Jake]

I know. What else could it mean?

[Ellie_Penguin]

No, I'm Roman Catholic. Catholics are also Christians.

[Eric]

I think it's rather interesting that the 'Seven Kings' come when they do. With myself being agnostic, I might be somewhat biased, but this sounds too much like a ruse to draw attention to a certain sect of Christianity or whatnot. Why are the Seven Kings chosen when they are? Where in then passage does it say Pius XI is the first King, and Benedict XVI is the seventh?

 

The passage does not even suggest that the 'kings' are popes. This again is a personal interpretation, and has little bearing on the true meaning of the text.

 

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

That is somewhat convincing - I'm assuming that this was discovered during the 'reign' of John Paul II - but then again, when this is 'discovered' and 'interpreted' by an individual affects the 'prophecy' itself. For example, if this passage of the Bible was 'interpreted' by an individual in the time of John XXIII, the 5 'kings' who had fallen would have been Pius XII, Pius XI, Benedict XV, Pius X and Leo XIII. The 'other not yet to come' would be Paul VI.

 

When the year 2000 drew closer and closer, religious text/interpretations started popping up about the Apocalypse, or other variations of it. It's merely the right place at the right time. Quite blatantly, any interpretation of a religious text is possibly inplausible due to multiple reasons. Nevertheless, I'd like to have a look at the site itself. Could you possibly provide a link?

 

(Oh, and quick poll - move to Debate and Discussion?)

[Lutarist Jake]

From the study of Revelation 13 & 17, we can conclude only one who constitutes the best personality for achieving Satan's end-time agenda: it is John Paul II the Great. Below are the reasons:

 

Out of the seven kings, he is the only one that fulfills the prophesied statement:

 

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.†Revelation 13:3.

 

John Paul II is the only king of the seven who experienced a deadly wound in 1980, when he was nearly assassinated. Thereafter, the whole world, as prophesied, wondered after him.

 

Remember the divine hint: "five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come." Revelation 17:10. When Apostle John was taken in a vision to the future, he was taken to the time of the reign of the sixth king (John Paul II).

 

This was what they said that showed the kings are popes. They even got this chart:

 

 

And please move this to debate and discussion.

 

PS: Honestly, I don't think this is true. I want your opinion. And this SCARES me.

[Eric]

A Devil from the bottomless pit impersonates John Paul II

When Apostle John was taken in a vision to the future, he was taken to the time of the reign of the sixth king (John Paul II).

Oh, dear me. This is getting almost funny. <_< ("And he shalt come in black and white!!")

 

It's ridiculous, at best. It's easy to thread theories into stories. For example, in Alice in Wonderland, the 'adventure' Alice takes is indicative of drug use. I can apply heaps of evidence to support this claim, but it's still not the original intention of the author. Everything is open to individual interpretation.

 

I'm sure other Popes had qualms with their health. Maybe others had assassination attempts against them. It is foolish to keep moving the 'impersonation Pope' further and further along, as is possible. ("On the eve of the millenium, the world shall end!" "Oh, damn. It'll come in 2010. I'm sure of it."). It's rather fun to twist supposed 'revelations' into fact, to incite discussion, but again, it has little bearing on what happens in reality.

 

The Book of Revelations is filled with apocalyptic text. Does this mean, according to the Christian faith, that all of these things will come true, or is this a hit and miss thing? But then again, we don't know. Individuals are free to interpret Revelations however they like, as it (like many other apocalyptic literature) is very, very vague.

 

(Moved to Debate & Discussion)

[Lutarist Jake]

And he shalt come in black and white!!

I wish it WAS in the article. We'd have a good laugh.

 

The Book of Revelations is filled with apocalyptic text. Does this mean, according to the Christian faith, that all of these things will come true, or is this a hit and miss thing? But then again, we don't know. Individuals are free to interpret Revelations however they like, as it (like many other apocalyptic literature) is very, very vague.

 

Maybe. But perhaps we could unravel them here...

[Eric]

Maybe. But perhaps we could unravel them here...

You can go ahead. But I'll be fine. :P

[Lutarist Jake]

You sure the mods would not object?

[Eric]

I suppose we'll let it pass as long as it doesn't become too farfetched/spammy/offensive.

 

Just don't get upset if your ideas get shot down by other users. This IS a debate forum. :P

[Lutarist Jake]

OK. Let's start from Chapter 1.

 

:1 This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, John,

 

1:2 who testified to God's word, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, about everything that he saw.

 

1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written in it, for the time is at hand.

 

1:4 John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from God, who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before his throne;

 

1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood;

 

1:6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so, Amen.

 

1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

 

1:9 I John, your brother and partner with you in oppression, kingdom, and perseverance in Christ Jesus, was on the isle that is called Patmos because of God's Word and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, like a trumpet

 

1:11 saying, "What you see, write in a book and send to the seven assemblies: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

 

1:12 I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. Having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands.

 

1:13 And among the lampstands was one like a son of man, clothed with a robe reaching down to his feet, and with a golden sash around his chest.

 

1:14 His head and his hair were white as white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire.

 

1:15 His feet were like burnished brass, as if it had been refined in a furnace. His voice was like the voice of many waters.

 

1:16 He had seven stars in his right hand. Out of his mouth proceeded a sharp two-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining at its brightest.

 

1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me, saying, "Don't be afraid. I am the first and the last,

 

1:18 and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.

 

1:19 Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will happen hereafter;

 

1:20 the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands. The seven stars are the angels of the seven assemblies. The seven lampstands are seven assemblies.

 

Anyone has any idea what it means?

[Eric]

No idea, actually, but the number seven seems to be a recurring theme.

 

Ie, Seven Kings, seven stars, seven golden lampstands, seven assemblies.

[Lutarist Jake]

Seven is God's holy number. Which is why the Sabbath is on the seventh day.

[Ellie_Penguin]

The theory of the Seven Kings is just an interpretation. Like someone posted before, it can mean anything. In the book of Revelations, it says that we will be able to see the "beast" before Christ comes again to judge us all for our sins. In the bible it says that the 'beast' is the last Antichrist so we're talking about a person who will fool us all or not at all. But before we meet the Antichrist, it says that us Christians will go through years of 'peace' before the last battle. It also says that 777 will be the number of the Beast, meaning the theory of the beast being the last Pope can be true since 7 is a Holy number in the bible. Or it can mean that a Christian will convert to the darkness. We might be fooled by someone from our own religion, which means the devil will make his last "effort" to take souls down to hell and what better way to do it by convincing people that religion is not the way to go...and he's doing it now if you think about it. There is a new movie coming out that talks about how some Catholic priests have committed criminal acts. But you see it makes me laugh how they are trying to say that because of 1 priest like that, every other priest is the same. They're trying to promote that Catholicism is bad just because of that. If you look at it this way, if we're going to generalize like that, then being non-religious is even worse since there are more cases of criminal acts from non-religious than religious people, including priests.

 

Don't be afraid, if you don't believe in it you have nothing to worry about.....just live a good life.

 

By the way, where did you get that chapter from? (i need to know before i try to explain what it means)

[Lutarist Jake]

The chapter is Revelation One.

 

But I might have a different view from you. I'm a Protes non-catholic.

 

EDIT: THE BEAST'S NUMBER IS 666, NOT 777.

[Chipmonker]

How in the world did that website get the Popes as the kings?!?!? Probably some extreme Protestant to blame x_x (I'm Lutheran, btw. so I'm not raggin on the pro.) It is also noteworthy to say that Christians have (in the past) killed each other because of their different ideas, especially between the Protestant and Catholic lines.

 

 

Now as to where the seven kings fall into place! From what verse 17 says and from what I remember of what I learned, I think they represent the seven world powers/leaders of the tribulation age. Of those world leaders, five of them will submit their power to the antichrist, due to the fact that they love and respect the antichrist so much. This is what then leads way to the Antichrist's earthly "utopia". (Most all are taken by his great political skills, brilliant speech and his care for humanity. Some are to the extreme of actually worshipping him as a living god. Therefore, this is why he is able to ascend to the position as supreme ruler of Earth).

 

In layman's terms, because the five out of seven world leaders that submit to the Antichrist, he is able to build his own kingdom on Earth in defiance to anything Jewish or Christian.

 

Now, that is what I think I remember from what I was taught. I'll have to get back later after I review my notes.

 

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I have looked it up, and I found the other predominant theories. They are really different from mine and really long. I'll maybe post them tomarrow.

 

* The beasts/antichrists number really has nothing to do with anything at all. Really, it doesn't.

 

 

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My interpretation of JhJe's posting of the book of Revelation!! (Other denominations of Christendome interp. little bit differently, but basically the same.)

 

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1 - 1:3 - John writes in his letter, "This is the holy vision into the future, given to Jesus by God, who gave it to me" Those who read it are smart in planning for the future.

 

1:4 - (John sent the letter to the seven churches that represented the whole church at that time (or future times!)) Really this says "Hi, it is me John, God bless you."

 

1:5 - 1:6 - And this letter is also from the one and only Jesus Christ, ruler of kings, who died for us. And may his (Jesus's) kingdom (Christianity) rule forevermore.

 

1:7 - Jesus will have a second coming that EVERYONE will see. Including those who deny Jesus. And because of that, all[/u/ will mourn over the second coming. (Remember, those who-fall-short are family members and friends of those who are saved)

 

1:8 - And then, "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Lord God is the great I am. He is God of everything, from Alpha (beginning) to Omega (end). He will set up the heavenly kingdom on earth.

 

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1:9 - "I John, your brother and partner with you in oppression, kingdom, and perseverance in Christ Jesus, was on the isle that is called Patmos because of God's Word and the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Self explainitory, this is where John had the angel reveal to him the future)

 

1:10 - 1:11 - John finds himself in heaven with a voice telling him to send what he sees to every Christian.

 

1:12 - John turns to find saw seven lightstands (a representative of the churches as the basis to faith), and another light (Jesus).

 

1:13 - 1:15 - John is describing Christ himself.

 

1:16 - Seven stars in hand = seven angels (used later), Sword out of mouth = absolute word of God.

 

1:17 - 1:18 - John falls to the ground in awe, Jesus comforts him; don't be scared.

 

1:19 - Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will happen hereafter

 

1:20 - Symbolism here equals 3 paragraphs, they basically follow what I said before. It also tells the readers that the entire book is one big book of symbolism.