The low number of voters in America

[MariaWB]

Okay, first: this is NOT a debate about one political party/view vs. another. It's only about the low voting percentage! So please don't foul up my debate with muddslinging, okay? Thank you =)

 

The American election today has the attention of the world, because it's such a big and influential country. So I've read this and that in various papers, and one thing always makes me wonder. Why do so few people vote?

 

This is not meant as a bad thing, but America is often shown to the world as the home of democracy and the big good-do'er - by the Americans themselves, and the government off course. So why don't the people of this great democratic country vote? So much talk about duty to the country - but only about half, or less, bother to vote.

 

Here in little ol' Denmark, 86,53% voted last year when we had an election of party and prime minister and all that. Two years before that, in 2005, 84,5% voted, so the percentage of voters is growing.

 

Just to clarify: now you wanna ask, why two elections in just two years? I don't know, to be honest! I'm only 23 yrs old, and there's been two elections since I could participate. The first time, in 2005, I submitted a blank ballot, 'cause I just didn't know who to vote for! But I did go down and submit it, to show that I want to vote and appreciate the privilege.

 

Looking from DK to USA there are HUGE differences! We pay 40-60% in taxes (approx.) depending on income. But we have universal healthcare, free for all as long as it's not elective, such as cheese jobs. Free dentist 'till 18 or for life for those with big, permanent problems. Free education, and students are actually payed to get a free education, also if you want to go abroad to do it. What you pay for a gallon of gas (4 liters), we pay for 1 liter (a quater of a gallon!!) because we have big taxes on everything polluting.

 

USA doesn't have free healthcare and 15% have no insurance (that's the number a paper gave), nor free dentists visits. Education above high school costs thousands of dollars, and you have to take loans or work while you study to have an income. What you get for all this 'pay per use' is low taxes and more money in your hands. But is it worth it?

 

And does any of this have anything to do with voternumbers? Does problems in everyday life influence whether people want to vote? Do they think bad thing won't get better, so they don't vote - or they like their good things, and vote to keep them?

 

 

 

Just a side comment:

I pay 39%. After taxes I have approx. 1000$ left for everything. I'm on a sort of social security because of mental health issues, so I have to live with the low funds. But because I have low funds, the state pays for all my medication, and if I need to go to the dentist for more than a check up I can petition to have the state pay, and in 90% of the cases, they say yes. I've spent YEARS in therapy, and all that was free, too - even the psychologist whom is private practice. I've lived in two halfways houses for 1½ years combined, and it was free. The school I attend is not 100% public and has a small fee per class - it's only 80-140$, but I can't afford it, so the state pays.

 

I don't have much, and oh boy, do I have financial woes! I only have for what I need - no fun for me! But I'm SO glad I don't live in America! I would be much worse off there. I deffinetly think it's worth paying my 39% and surviving in stead of living. In America I'd be homeless, broke and unmedicated. I'd probably be dead.

[Unstream]

Lol I live in America. Yeah, we don't have free healthcare, or dentistry, or education past college, but that's because voters keep pushing for tax cuts, and then complain about not getting enough services later (ah, but I'm getting off subject).

 

In truth, I think the majority of America has been voting lately. I'm not sure what the voter turnout was last election, but I know this year the voter turnout in my state is predicted to be 85%-90%, which is astonishingly high.

[Strategos]

Last election was 33%, which was really low, but then again, Bush was very liked at that time. It was only about halfway through 2005 that he started plummeting.

[Queen Diva]

I would love to know why too.

 

In Australia it's compulsory to vote. We get fined if we don't turn up and get our names checked off.

 

Although, I wish we had a system more like your country!

 

We are heading more and more towards pay per user type of thing and it's rather horrendous. Our universities used to be free, now we're getting loans to pay $24,000 per year for classes (that's full time which I'm doing) - in a 3 year degree that comes to $72,000. I'm going to be paying it off for the rest of my life!

 

We still have free medical here, but not elective surgery, thankfully that hasn't changed. There is the dentistry school you can go to if you are under 18 or a pensioner (older) which is free but has about a 3 month wait. Otherwise you pay through the nose for going to the dentist here too.

 

And we get taxed quite a bit too. Only it doesn't cover much. I wouldn't complain if we had free dental and schooling after high school.

[MariaWB]

Thaladirith: I think you are exactly right, the american people want to pay no taxes, but get everything for free at the same time. For some reasons most americans don't understand why we in Denmark accept to pay so much in taxes because they think they should be able to pay low taxes and still get what we have.

 

And I also think more people will vote this time - it truly is a historic election! It was already historic when a woman ran for candidacy, and now a woman might become vice president (although, in my own personal opinion, I don't think Sarah Palin is ready for that post).

 

Femme_Diva: Yeah, I saw a program about New Zealand and Australia within the last two years that told how it used to be a 'poor people friendly' part of the world, but that it was starting to change - the poorer becoming poorer, and the richer becoming richer; sadly, that is also happening in Denmark, but not quite as much. I think we're too stuck to the feeling of fairness to let the government get away with it (even though our prime minister just looooooooooves Bush :rolleyes_anim: )

 

The whole paying off school loans for life we have here in Denmark, too. Our Student Support thing or what ever it's called in english - student over 18 with a shcoolweek of at least 23 hours (calculated, it doesn't have to be exact) get around 1100$ before taxes with the possibility of a monthly loan of 500$ plus work on the side - is just too low for students taking a long education, such as engineers, doctors and whatnot. They end up with debts of 100,000$+ which just isn't pleasant to think of! It needs to be a bit higher, the joke - sadly true joke - is that students live off of air, pasta and ketchup and the water in the fosset in the kitchen. I gave a little more than a student without the monthly loan because I'm on social security/temporary disability, and I'd've gone hungry WAY too many times if it hadn't been for my mom! So here, things need to change as well.

 

But our prime minister said something a few months ago that made me SO happy: He said that in no way would he EVER recommend that seeing a general practitioner should be something the danish people have to pay for. For an ill person like me, that was SO reassuring!

[Queen Diva]

It's very true. The poor are getting poorer and the rich richer. Unfortunately it's a horrible thing. Especially since I fall into the poor student equation!

 

Our government a while ago introduced a new amendment stating that medical centres don't have to bulk bill (which means it goes to medicare, our free medical system) which meant that a lot of GP's now charge upfront and you have to take your reciept to the medicare place and get 70%-80% back. This has meant that many more people are now converging on emergency waiting rooms to get seen to because they don't have to pay for it and it's meant that our hospitals are getting insanely long waiting hours.

 

It's a bit like a snowball. It just keeps getting worse!

 

As for our students here? well, lets say we're in the same boat you are. I've lived off noodles, pasta and soup for a long time too! Unfortunately my mum lives too far away for me to go visit for food. But when I do go visit, I empty her fridge and bring it back with me :D

 

With our new prime minister, I'd like to see what he's going to get up to with it all since he's Labour, which is meant to be for the working class person.

 

He's already changed back the student union fee that we used to pay which covers a lot of free stuff at uni like counsellors, medical, student unions, legal, etc. So that's always a good thing because it was compulsory before, it was changed by Howard to not being compulsory and now it's compulsory again. I guess it's too much to hope for free university education like our prime ministers received.

 

I think students everywhere in the world have it a bit tough. Although I could do without the massive debt hanging over my head!

[Queen Milli]

Lol, The American Vote was on AUSTRALIAN TV!!!! I think that is a bit wierd...

[FutureTXTurkey]

First, I understand your question, and think as an outsider your curiosity made an excellent point. However, I don't want to become an antagonist, but it seems to me like your turning a legitimate question into an excuse to sling mud at America, and you said you didn't want mudslinging. As an American who did vote, and always votes, even in the tiniest city elections, I too am appalled that not everyone votes. Still what this has to do with your opinions on our taxes, health care, or education systems, I'm afraid I just don't see.

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Now, to answer the question you said you were interested in hearing the answer to...

 

Actually the numbers you hear about the % of people who voted are often very misleading because they give a percentage of the population, and not the percentage of eligible voters. For example the news here keeps saying only 33% of Americans voted in 2004, which may well be true, but 55% of those eligible to vote did in fact participate. That is of course still an unacceptably low number, but it's much better than the 33% the news was misquoting. And you, MariaWB, said, "half or less" of us vote, and we have only had less then half vote in 4 election since 1824, and 16 elections where it was above 70%

 

I personally think the low numbers are caused by the voters thinking their vote won't count. America is a much larger country than Denmark, or most other countries for that matter. There are 305,579,000 in America, so even with only 50% of us voting we still have more people participating in the democratic process than the entire populations of all but the other seven largest countries. Just to gage the size for you there are almost 24,000,000 people in just my state, compared to the 5,489,022 people in all of Denmark. Not to mention the shear size of our country, many American states have more land mass than any European country. Like I live in Texas, that puts me 1,554 mi away from my nation's capital. So for Denmark that would be like having your nation's capital a little further away than Paris, France. India, which is also a large country with a large population, has around 50% voter turnout.

 

That said with that many people in that large of a country it becomes hard to feel very personal with your national government, and hard to see how your one little vote is going to make much difference. This is only magnified by some of the short comings in our current electoral system that, without going into to much detail the electoral college, has not exactly kept up with the nations growth, and leaves many people feeling like their entire states vote no longer counts because the population doesn't add up to much representation in the national count. Mostly I would say that about covers why more people don't vote. The electoral college, and a HUGE population that makes you feel like your one vote couldn't possibly make the difference.

 

For example, I voted for Obama, but because of the way our electoral college works the majority of my state voted for McCain, and so McCain wins all of the votes in Texas. So you can see how that would get someone down...

TO ANY AMERICANS READING THIS, IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE, PLEASE ROCK THE VOTE, IT'S YOUR DUTY AND YOUR PRIVILEGE!

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Just One More Thing: I think America could be doing a lot more for it's people, like free health care, cheaper schooling, and insurance assistance, because even though our taxes are less % wise we have so many more people that our tax revenue is much greater. Like I said though it's lot harder to give those services to 300,000,000 people than it is to give it to 5,000,000 people.

 

We do have assistance for people with health problems. Like my uncle, who has Migraines so severely that he can't work, the government pays for just about everything he has, housing, food, health care, ect. So I think you would get by just fine Maria, and you wouldn't be having to pay that small fee your paying for school, because private schools here would for sure give you a scholarship if you only had $1,000 to spare. And that includes colleges. The government gives away tons of money to low income people going to college. And I know that most of the major colleges here in Texas allow you to go for free if you or your parents make less than $40,000 a year.

 

Free college is great for those countries that have it, and I couldn't find the stats on this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of people who live in countries with free college educations still leave their countries to come pay for a college education here? In fact isn't that why a lot of those countries enacted those policies, to help keep their youth going to school in their own countries instead of coming here? I mean that just what I get from people going to school here that are from other countries.

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Note: All of the voting, distance, and population facts in this post were from the Wikipedia and Google Maps:

Voter Turnout In The United States

Voter Turnout In Other Countries

List Of Countries By Population

The Population Of Texas

The Distances From Place To Place

[Queen Diva]

Lol, The American Vote was on AUSTRALIAN TV!!!! I think that is a bit wierd...

 

It's not surprising considering that the outcome affects the whole world! :)

 

Free college is great for those countries that have it, and I couldn't find the stats on this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of people who live in countries with free college educations still leave their countries to come pay for a college education here? In fact isn't that why a lot of those countries enacted those policies, to help keep their youth going to school in their own countries instead of coming here? I mean that just what I get from people going to school here that are from other countries.

 

It's true, however you need to also realise that many countries that do have free education in their own country doesn't mean anything. America is the leading nation in the world in many areas. Education is also one of those. People that get a degree from an American university have better opportunities within their own country and anywhere around the world.

 

So it's not unthinkable that they would give up a free education from a small university in their own country to have a better chance at getting a better living from getting a degree from Harvard for example :)

 

It's the same here, there are so many international students within Universities in Sydney because of the status it gives them when they go for jobs back at home or elsewhere.

[̊ ˉˉ ̊]

One reason for the low number of voters.

 

Many people are too slow to figure out how to even register.

[Unstream]

One reason for the low number of voters.

 

Many people are too slow to figure out how to even register.

Haha I wouldn't say many, just some.

 

I think the voter turnout would be a lot less in the west coast than the east coast because they'll start getting the results before they vote (or at least the last minute voters would), and then they'll either think, "Oh, well since Obama is winning, I don't need to go out and vote for him." or "Oh, well since McCain is losing, it'd be pointless to go out and vote for him."

 

That's why a lot of news networks try to refrain from making predictions too quickly.

[Awesome_Paul]

Lol, The American Vote was on AUSTRALIAN TV!!!! I think that is a bit wierd...

 

I was rather annoyed about that, any other country with a major event has no impact in america. Yet anything in US has to be showed around the world.

 

Worst point was that they used almost every news channel for the election.

I for one enjoy watching the news when I come in from work, and I rather watch news from my country.

What does America think? when the election starts, there is no other news in the world.

(I could say my views in a longer version, but my temper may lose itself)

[Strategos]

I was rather annoyed about that, any other country with a major event has no impact in america. Yet anything in US has to be showed around the world.

 

Partially true. We do see world events, but you are correct, it's much less, and it's usually international networks that show them (BBC). I don't like that, but I don't really have control over it. However, I did check with AP, and they didn't have much else. Was much else happening last night?

[FutureTXTurkey]

...many countries that do have free education in their own country (it) doesn't mean anything. America is the leading nation in the world in many areas. Education is also one of those. People that get a degree from an American university have better opportunities within their own country and anywhere around the world.

 

So it's not unthinkable that they would give up a free education from a small university in their own country to have a better chance at getting a better living from getting a degree from Harvard for example...

That was exactly what I was trying to say. I guess I didn't explain my point very well though. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

I was rather annoyed about that, any other country with a major event has no impact in America. Yet anything in US has to be showed around the world.

 

Worst point was that they used almost every news channel for the election.

I for one enjoy watching the news when I come in from work, and I rather watch news from my country.

What does America think? when the election starts, there is no other news in the world.

(I could say my views in a longer version, but my temper may lose itself)

Well if there was some particular news story you wanted to see I can totally understand you being annoyed, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I too wish America was more considerate, and interested in what is going on in the rest of the world. Actually since 9/11 our new coverage of foreign events has been steadily increasing. However...

 

1. I'm a little confused as to how America controls what is on your news stations? Unless your news stations are American based companies in which case it makes since that they would air the election, and...

 

2. I think this election should be shared by the world. Maybe it's "self-centered American" of me to think so, but getting rid of Bush, and ending this war in the middle east will have an effect on the whole world. George Bush forced the American people to watch as he fought a war we didn't believe in, ruined our foreign relations, threatened our civil liberties, and tanked our economy (and that's just a short list). Less war is good for everyone, and when the American economy is strong the rest of the worlds economy does better. That is just a fact of trading and imports, as much as you may dislike us you can't deny that. A lot of countries were really glad to have seen the election, Kenya declared it a national holiday when Obama was elected. And I'm sure those innocents victimized by Bush's "war on terror" were thrilled to hear we had kicked the republican party to the curb.

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It's clear to me from reading this thread that there is a lot of hostility around the world for America, and with Bush running the country I can totally understand that. We elected him and so you think we like him. It makes since. Trust me though, we don't like him anymore than you guys do. Bush was two steps away from being a fascist dictator, and despite this being a democracy, the American people had very little to do with what went on here for the past four years. Obama is taking control now, and I hope the rest of the world will see, from our appointment of this great man, that what George Bush has done is not okay with us, and it is in no way a reflection of the majority of the American people. We want change in this country as much as the rest of the world. A kinder gentler America that makes better use of our vast economic & financial resources, lending a helping hand to the rest of the world when they need it/ask for it, but not trying to be the "world police." Please gives us a second chance, and don't punish this whole nation for the actions of one man. You'll see with Obama as President the true spirit of the American people will show through.

[Unstream]

1. I'm a little confused as to how America controls what is on your news stations? Unless your news stations are American based companies in which case it makes since that they would air the election, and...

Simple. News stations want to make money. How? By selling commercial time slots, and because everyone is going to want to watch the election, they can jack up the price for the 30 second commercial time slot.

 

It's really just a matter of making money. To my knowledge nobody controls the news stations except the news station themselves.

 

And yes, I think they're American based, if you mean that they're from America. The big news channels are all in America, such as CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.