Lorelei

I tried to send this in a neomail:

"No problem - I'll be gifting a lot. The higher levels of habi make you accumulate an absurd amount of buildings (I have 86 barracks) so expect to receive something every day. "

 

And it won't let me. What is wrong with that message? Is it the word "ac-cum-ulate"? If so, that's just silly.

Correction: Wheel of knowledge lies about getting dubloons 55 seconds past the minute. This has been tested by many and does not work.

As far as not being able to find out the rules, now you're just stretching it. All the information on is on the site as I think I've clearly pointed out as well as tons of other people by now. If your conscience can define willing and knowing hoping to rip people off as acceptable and being a good community member, maybe that's the issue.

 

As far as doing all this on a side account, that is very bad and extremely against the rules which are very clear everywhere in the FAQs about what side accounts are for.

 

As far as your friend goes, they are more than likely safe but if it is somehow proven they knowing bought a scammed item, they may be frozen. Probably not though.

 

Replying again because you posted this before I finished writing my other thing.

 

Okay, fine - I accept the thing about the side account. I didn't think about it really, other than I didn't play games/do dailies, etc.

 

But I stand by what I said about not being able to find the rules. If TNT thinks that I should be responsible for what can be found by using a search engine on someone elses website, then they should link to it. As far as I am concerned, until they make the editorials reliably searchable, no one should be held accountable for rules stated in an editorial.

 

Also, someone gave me the link to the terms and conditions, but I still cannot find it by navigating the website. There was nothing in the terms and conditions other than "respectfulness" that applied to this situation anyway.

you were also doing this on a side account ?? that's double the offense ...

 

side accounts are not allowed to buy/sell/trade ...

 

and yes this is neopets not real courtrooms so their rules apply ...

 

end of story

 

 

o.O I thought side accounts weren't allowed to earn neopoints. I thought restocking, almost abandoned attic, igloo, etc etc would fall underneath that. But trading on the trading post seems fine to me (as there is no benefit to using two accounts for the trading post if you are playing above the boards...whereas using your side account to get around a restocking ban would not be allowed). But anyway, another example where sensible legal theory fails on neopets.

 

And yes, I know this is neopets not real courtrooms. Much of my motive for starting this topic was to discuss the legal theory behind the rules. I thought people more well versed would be able to fill the loopholes that I spotted and whatnot. I am now more convinced of what I thought before: Their rules are poorly defined and do not make sense.

 

 

So now, back to my friend. If I were to apply legal theory to this situation, I would guess that my friend who traded the "stolen goods" with me wouldn't be in any danger of losing her account because she didn't know that she was getting something that I had obtained through questionable means. So given that I traded her an item before the account was frozen, is she in danger of getting frozen as well? Given that TNT is somewhat draconian about this? Am I supposed to tell her where it came from and then tell her to destroy it or something? Or am I protecting her by letting her think that everything is all right with the thing I traded her?

you were frozen because you weren't playing fair .. simple as that

 

however i hope you learn from your mistake and not repeat it

 

i once fell for a scam on the TP - the guy was selling 10 baby paint brush PLUSHIES for 100k each , claiming they're Baby PB's (hurry up , get it before it's gone - type of trade) .. i didn't pay attention and offered ... the Plushie was worth 60k at that time so I ended up losing only 40k ... but that left a horrible and bitter taste in my mouth ... I don't know if that guy got frozen or not ... but what you did was almost the same ...

 

 

Oh, I am totally guilty of being a jerk. The first time I got away with it, the person neomailed me and I gave the item back. The second time, I didn't get a neomail and I kept the item. (Yes, I realize under 13s can't neomail. I am not trying to make a case for my morality here).

 

I also happen to study a lot of legal theory, and the neopets rules in this case are completely convoluted. If it weren't for the clause that they can close any account for no reason (similar to private property rights), then there would be no way for them to hold me accountable if this were a real case. If you applied a case like this to a real courtroom a lawyer would be able to get the charges dropped in a second because of their lack of consistency, the fact that there is no way to find out about the rules on the website ("being a good community member" is defined as not swearing), and insufficient evidence of intent.

 

WAS I trying to rip someone off? Absolutely. But the only thing that they could concretely accuse me of is being cheap.

 

That's if one tries to apply legal theory to the neopets world, which doesn't work, obviously.

 

 

But I digress.

 

I did all of this on a side account to be cautious. I did, however, sell my friend an item I got by doing this cheaply. Since I transferred "stolen goods" essentially, is her account in danger? Is she allowed to keep the item since she bought it from me on the trading post cheaply but fairly?

You should probably read the Terms and Conditions before you check that you agree to them. By checking off the box when you made your account, you agreed that you must "respect the community". You also agreed that Neopets had the right to terminate your account, so doing anything close to disrespect would be a bad idea.

 

EDIT: It seems others have made this point since I started typing. xD I should've read the T&C faster.

 

 

Am I supposed to have the terms and conditions memorized from when I made the account or is it actually posted on the website somewhere?

While I do agree that it's annoying that their editorial search does not work very well, if you really want to take it all the way back to the terms and conditions that you clicked 'I agree' to in order to have an account on the site, you agreed that you would follow all rules no matter where there were documented and that you agreed that nick can delete you account whenever they see fit

 

 

Aside from when I made the account, how can I access the terms of agreement on their webpage? I looked for that also, but I couldn't find it.

Wow. Wish I'd know about that.

 

I still don't think that we should be held responsible for rules that we have no way to know if they are in existence. Editorials should be searchable through the neopets website. I even looked around for a "Rules" page.

 

While what I was doing is shady, it is definitely a grey area because i was using their own system to be misleading. I didn't do anything else (neomail, make promises, etc) to further try to convince people.

yes...like the one I posted above...:/

 

 

How do you search the editorials? Bah, that could have save me a lot of time. I thought I had searched to see if TNT had talked about this before I actually did it.

Okay, here's instance one from the editorials stating what you did was scamming, and there are more if you want me find them too

 

 

This is question 6395, archived from Editorial Issue 419.

 

And here's the another one clearly stating what you did was scamming

 

This is question 6083, archived from Editorial Issue 398.

 

And there are probably more, so case and point, it has been stated multiple times.

 

 

Wait wait, how did you find that? I tried to search it before I did it and I couldn't find anything. I clicked on the search bar on the side and I only got articles/guides to the trading post. Is there a different way to search editorials?

Moral of the story: Don't knowingly offer one thousand times less than you know an item is worth...:/ <_<

 

(Can you honestly say that you were doing it for any reason but in hopes of fooling someone...? Even if it SEEMS obvious, it is still scamming...)

 

 

Oh no, I was totally hoping the person on the other end would be careless. I fully admit to shady and mean behavior. And yes, I did it repeatedly, though not to the same players. However, I don't think it is scamming.

 

INHO

Putting a paint brush plushie on the trading post, and then putting the value of the actual paint brush in the wishlist: Not scamming

Putting a paint brush plushie on the trading post, and then putting "paints your pets desert!" in the wishlist: Scamming

 

The first one is just an absurd request. The second one is a lie.

 

I'm just saying that if you can be frozen for underoffering, then there should be an editorial or something about it. I don't believe there is, unless someone can educate me.

Normally, this is considered scamming because if someone wants 600k for a baby paitnbrush and someone offers 60,000 the person may accidentally accept thinking it is what they asked.

 

However, I don't see how 250 can be mixed up with 250,000.

 

And yes they should announce this on the rules.

 

April, I still don't even see how offering 60,000 on a baby paint brush is scamming

1) It could easily be a typo

2) No one is making the person on the other end accept. Now, if if someone had a baby pb on the trading post and someone offered 600 and neomailed the user saying that they found a glitch and if you accept an offer that is 1000x less than it should be you actually end up with three baby pb....that is a scam. In my case, the only thing I was guilty of is lousy offering.

Okay, so I got frozen today for (admittedly) being a jerk on the trading post.

 

Like, if someone asked for 250k, I'd offer 250 neopoints.

 

Now, I see how that is shady but I DON'T see how that is scamming.

 

For starters, I couldn't find an editorial about it. Nor could I find anything in the rules that says that I can be frozen for making offers on the trading post. I actually can't find a "Rules" section on the website anywhere. I never made promises, asked for passwords, or anything to the other user. I simply made trading post offers.

 

So can they really hold us to rules they do not announce?